TSN: Cody Ceci + Hapur + Luchuk (and pick) for Zeitsev + Brown + Carcone PART TWO

NoName

Bringer of Playoffs!
Nov 3, 2017
2,790
1,635
If you want to talk about numbers, we can talk about how Zaitsev's career high in points is 10 higher than Ceci's or how Zaitsev has more points and a higher PPG in the last 3 years, despite less ice time than Cody.
Yeah, he had 36 points his rookie season after coming over from the KHL. It was a really nice surprise and why he got that huge, long-term contract. In the two years since he has scored 13 points and 14 points averaging about 21 and a half minutes of ice-time. Even as more of a stay-at-home defender (which he has indeed made strides to becoming in the NHL; he played a respectable defensive role in the series against Boston this spring for example), those numbers are worrying, especially on a high-octane offensive team like the Leafs.

Ceci the past couple yeas has scored 19 and 26 last season in nearly 23 minutes average ice time feeding the puck to a much less talented group of forwards. Hard to see how on the offensive side Zaitsev looks like a better player moving forward then Ceci; that first season is looking more and more like an outlier unfortunately.

That said, it isn’t like either of these guys look like ideal options for a top-4 role (Zaitsev is on the edge of being a 4D imho, and I haven’t seen enough of Ceci to say for sure; and rn it seems like both fan bases just want to slag the player they traded away so they feel they “won”), but with Ceci at least the team can walk away from him at the end of the year and not continue to overpay him. With Zaitsev you are banking on him actually being able to make strides to get closer to justifying that massive, long (and NTC tagged) contract.

Of course, none of us really know who will turn out better on their new team until we see them play. Look at the Domi/Galchenyuk trade as an example where we all got it wrong. It is just the floor for the Leafs with Ceci is way higher because even if he is terrible, they can rid themselves of him in one year. With Zaitsev you are locked in for five with a NTC.
 
Last edited:

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
9,269
Yeah, he had 36 points his rookie season after coming over from the KHL. It was a really nice surprise and why he got that huge, long-term contract. In the two years since he has scored 13 points and 14 points averaging about 21 and a half minutes of ice-time. Even as more of a stay-at-home defender (which he has indeed made strides to becoming in the NHL; he played a respectable defensive role in the series against Boston this spring for example), those numbers are worrying, especially on a high-octane offensive team like the Leafs.

Ceci the past couple yeas has scored 19 and 26 last season in nearly 23 minutes average ice time feeding the puck to a much less talented group of forwards. Hard to see how on the offensive side Zaitsev looks like a better player moving forward then Ceci; that first season is looking more and more like an outlier unfortunately.

That said, it isn’t like either of these guys look like ideal options for a top-4 role (Zaitsev is on the edge of being a 4D imho, and I haven’t seen enough of Ceci to say for sure; and rn it seems like both fan bases just want to slag the player they traded away so they feel they “won”), but with Ceci at least the team can walk away from him at the end of the year and not continue to overpay him. With Zaitsev you are banking on him actually being able to make strides to get closer to justifying that massive, long (and NTC tagged) contract.

Of course, none of us really know who will turn out better on their new team until we see them play. Look at the Domi/Galchenyuk trade as an example where we all got it wrong. It is just the floor for the Leafs with Ceci is way higher because even if he is terrible, they can rid themselves of him in one year. With Zaitsev you are locked in for five with a NTC.

Sens fans being negative about Ceci has nothing to do with the trade. If anything, this has been the most positive Ceci has been talked about in years. Ceci might be one of the biggest "whipping boy" players in Sens history.
 

Cosmix

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jul 24, 2011
17,797
6,436
Ottawa

The second article contains the following tidbit:

"Zaitsev And His Ugly Contract
Unfortunately, the Toronto Maple Leafs are stuck with Zaitsev for the next six years. Adding to the fire, Zaitsev carries a 4.5 million USD cap hit and has a modified no-trade-clause (NTC) that begins next season. With his modified no-trade clause, Zaitsev will be able to submit a list of ten teams that he doesn’t want to be traded to.
With his NTC kicking in on July 1st, Kyle Dubas, the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs has till the trade deadline to trade Zaitsev.
The problem is Dubas will have a challenge as he’ll have to find a team that is willing to take on Zaitsev and his contract.
"
And so he did!
 

NoName

Bringer of Playoffs!
Nov 3, 2017
2,790
1,635
Sens fans being negative about Ceci has nothing to do with the trade. If anything, this has been the most positive Ceci has been talked about in years. Ceci might be one of the biggest "whipping boy" players in Sens history.
Just to be clear, I am certainly not saying this is some sort of Sens Fandom specific phenomena. It seems like in almost all trades fanbases feel the need to be especially negative about the player being traded out (and that also holds true for some of the exceptionally negative comments I have heard about Zaitsev on this thread and it’s precursor), so it can be hard to get a clear-eyed assessment of an incoming player on threads like this.

I think it is also fair to say that part of the reason both these players get especially negative attention from their fanbases due to their massively overpriced contracts; at the very least, these are both legit NHLers entering the primes of their careers. If Ceci and Zaitsev were both making around $2 million per season, I think Sens and Leafs fans would have been less down on them in the past. Of course if that was the case, I don’t think this trade gets made in the first place.
 

DueDiligence

Registered User
Nov 16, 2013
8,471
4,836
They replaced him with Barrie though.
My reply was to a poster that said the Leafs D is massively improved over last year.
My point was no they aren't.
Out : Gardiner Hainsey and Zaitsev
In : Barrie, Ceci and Harpur
Slight upgrade, nothing more.
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
I would do this deal everyday as long as we got rid of Ceci and don’t have to see him play in a sens Jersey again. Guy was trash and anyone that says different is out to lunch. Yes term on the Russian was not good but if that’s what had to happen then so be it.
That makes no sense. The option to just walk away from Ceci was there, be it now, arbitration, trade deadline or July 1st 2020. The poison pill option of taking on Zaitsev to rid us of Ceci far from being the only way.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,288
8,100
Victoria
That makes no sense. The option to just walk away from Ceci was there, be it now, arbitration, trade deadline or July 1st 2020. The poison pill option of taking on Zaitsev to rid us of Ceci far from being the only way.

FQL, I know you don’t like him, you’ve made that clear.

Obviously, management and coaching feel that they can turn Zaitsev’s career around. If he can get back to being a top 4 defender, his contract will be very reasonable. Also, in a couple of years when he has two or three years left in his deal, his contract will be movable for assets should we want to.

That’s the plan, by the looks of it. There is really nothing left at this point than to see if they’re gamble will pay off, or if you’re right and he’s trash. You’ve made your case, with lots of stats and links, but in the end it will come down to what happens on the ice.

Let’s wait and see how it plays out, because no one is going to change their opinions right now, no matter how many times we argue around the circle.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

🇨🇦🔑🧲✈️🎲🥅🎱🍟🥨🌗
Sep 23, 2015
7,994
1,897
The second article contains the following tidbit:

"Zaitsev And His Ugly Contract
Unfortunately, the Toronto Maple Leafs are stuck with Zaitsev for the next six years. Adding to the fire, Zaitsev carries a 4.5 million USD cap hit and has a modified no-trade-clause (NTC) that begins next season. With his modified no-trade clause, Zaitsev will be able to submit a list of ten teams that he doesn’t want to be traded to.
With his NTC kicking in on July 1st, Kyle Dubas, the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs has till the trade deadline to trade Zaitsev.
The problem is Dubas will have a challenge as he’ll have to find a team that is willing to take on Zaitsev and his contract.
"
And so he did!


"Ugly Contract" for a team that is up against the Cap Ceiling, with a bunch of RFAs they needed to sign this summer.
 

R2010

Registered User
May 23, 2011
1,913
972
If the option was this trade or resigning Ceci for six years then this is a huge win versus what I was expecting. It wasn’t the best case scenario but is definitely better than what I was expecting which was Ceci here long term at bigger dollars
 
  • Like
Reactions: coladin

Jorge Garcia

Registered User
Dec 9, 2004
2,787
634
I agree that its a wash, I just don't think Ceci will have enough of a rep with the Leafs staff to get used the same way he was here. The crazy thing too is that Ceci actually has more offensive ability than Zaitsev (who is one of the least skilled/offensive instinctual players in the entire league). Ceci might get to use that in some soft minutes.

Hainsey is absolute garbage at this point in his career. Why else would he be playing here? Old guy who can't skate. He's Oduya 2.0.
The stick of Cody Ceci is where offence goes to die. Pass the puck to him, and he will fumble it away, kill the attack with a bad pass, hesitate fatally, or (his specialty) veer to the right, ruin his shooting angle and launch a totally harmless shot. God, I hope Zaitsev isn't worse than that. I think the Leafs view Ceci as an outlet for the Leaf fanbase's notorious need for a Dman to hate, so Barrie doesn't become the whipping boy.
 

TheNewEra

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
7,941
3,316
If the option was this trade or resigning Ceci for six years then this is a huge win versus what I was expecting. It wasn’t the best case scenario but is definitely better than what I was expecting which was Ceci here long term at bigger dollars

there was a third option, take ceci to arb, there was a fourth option walk away from ceci, there was a 5th option undersell ceci so we dont get stuck with a long term bad contract
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
The stick of Cody Ceci is where offence goes to die. Pass the puck to him, and he will fumble it away, kill the attack with a bad pass, hesitate fatally, or (his specialty) veer to the right, ruin his shooting angle and launch a totally harmless shot. God, I hope Zaitsev isn't worse than that. I think the Leafs view Ceci as an outlet for the Leaf fanbase's notorious need for a Dman to hate, so Barrie doesn't become the whipping boy.
Analyzing Cody Ceci's game: What will he do for the Maple Leafs? - Sportsnet.ca

Looking at the success rates on attempted plays by both defenceman in each zone, we can see that Ceci is significantly better than Zaitsev with the puck in the offensive and neutral zones, while Zaitsev is superior in the defensive zone. Overall they both are below average puck handlers.
Looking at passes in particular, the same breakdown holds true. Zaitsev is a little better in the defensive zone, Ceci is better outside of it, and both players remain below average passers at their position.

Zaitsev has been among the least effective passers in the NHL over the past three seasons, not just with poor success rates, but with low involvement as well. However last season he was a bit more active and made significantly more passes than Ceci.

Don't hold your breath.
 

Mingus Dew

Microphone Assassin
Oct 7, 2013
5,576
4,127
Absolutely. I mean there were plenty of better options but them not picking the worst possible option is definitely better than nothing

Agreed. This trade was rough but we can take solace in the fact that there was at least one darker timeline that was somehow avoided.

There’s an alternate universe where Cody Ceci just signed an 8 year, 48 million dollar contract with the Ottawa Senators.
 

Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
42,067
15,799
So Dorion should have jumped into his time machine, and made one of those deals.

But lets talk about reality. This summer, he had a number and term in mind, for Ceci, and Ceci rejected the offer, so the options of the past were not available to Dorion, and he made the move he did.
No hindsight here. Ceci is bad. Was bad.

Lol. I’m super happy he’s gone. And you are right. He’s gone now Becuase he wanted more than what dorion wanted to offer. But I mean. Ceci was a superstar until he wanted the money, and then he’s the guy you use to acquire a cap dump. I mean. Think about it.
 

DuncanMacpherson

Registered User
Apr 6, 2010
7,489
3,824
I heard Dorion said he liked the fact that Zaitsev still has 5 years left on his deal. Can anyone confirm that this is true?
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->