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GumbyCan2

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We agree.

I do think that Chevy tried to go "all in" at the TDL, but was only interested in players with a bit of contract term (not a pure rental) - like Ekholm / Manson. He might have also considered a D like Oleksiak that he thought they might be able to extend.

In the larger scheme, I'm pretty sure that Chevy doesn't have any illusions about the quality of this D. He's not going to sack a coach based on a D that is so sub-standard.

As long as Chevy still has confidence that Maurice has the support of his players and an ability to adjust to the team, I think he'll have support until Chevy has re-built the D. I think he'll make a big move or two in the off-season to do that, and then Maurice will be "on the clock".
I say Chevy sacks Maurice on the unwillingness to incorporate a better system for this roster, combined with the leadership detrimental efforts and team 1st full buy in. Scheifele is still staying out past his lines expired time, over cooking his effectiveness and doofing other C's time and flow with their line ( aka PLD mostly). Wheeler has been 2/3's of his former skill-set player ( until last game) for a long time yet very little coaching input to change his role or come up with other effective answers. Stastny identified flaws and unsustainable luck occurences giving the Jets better outcomes than truly earned or deserved, some 30 games ago. That is over 1/2 the season. . . .
 

GumbyCan2

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I think he has team support. I think the top players realize that their D is not good enough. But who knows? My guess is that if many on the team have lost confidence, that will be the main factor in switching coaches at this point.
So why don't they help out the sub-standard D then? Speaking of Scheifele, Wheeler, Connor
 

ecolad

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Results are 3rd in the 7-team North Division.

Goaltending has been very good, but lagged over the past dozen games.

Even factoring in the best goalie in the NHL, models predicted the Jets would finish out of the playoffs, due largely to their bottom-rung D. There's only so far goaltending can take a team.

The more that you point to analyst and model predictions that identified the Jet`s with their sub-standard D as a bubble team at best and certainly not as a contender, as a means to defend Maurice`s coaching performance this past year (heh, team performed as might reasonably be expected), the more that you implicitly throw the spotjight on Chevy and /or other decision makers in the org. If the team indeed had no reasonable chance at modest playoff success, or even making the playoffs, what possible explanation is there for not shifting to a" developmental bias" with all decision -making? Would the year not be better utilized to further the individual development of players on the cusp of making the team, or just as importantly, to further the orgs understanding of the future potential of some players, for trade decisions or especially protection decisions in the Expansion draft ? Wouldn`t Chevy have taken a different approach to potential roster improvement at the TDL ? ( maybe that`s why he did nothing except for Benn)
 

KingBogo

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The more that you point to analyst and model predictions that identified the Jet`s with their sub-standard D as a bubble team at best and certainly not as a contender, as a means to defend Maurice`s coaching performance this past year (heh, team performed as might reasonably be expected), the more that you implicitly throw the spotjight on Chevy and /or other decision makers in the org. If the team indeed had no reasonable chance at modest playoff success, or even making the playoffs, what possible explanation is there for not shifting to a" developmental bias" with all decision -making? Would the year not be better utilized to further the individual development of players on the cusp of making the team, or just as importantly, to further the orgs understanding of the future potential of some players, for trade decisions or especially protection decisions in the Expansion draft ? Wouldn`t Chevy have taken a different approach to potential roster improvement at the TDL ? ( maybe that`s why he did nothing except for Benn)
Why do you believe that player development is better achieved at the NHL level playing lesser roles than it is in a league designed for player development by giving young players the opportunity to take on bigger responsibilities in an environment that allows them far more leeway to take risks and carry far greater responsibilities for team success?
 
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Whileee

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The more that you point to analyst and model predictions that identified the Jet`s with their sub-standard D as a bubble team at best and certainly not as a contender, as a means to defend Maurice`s coaching performance this past year (heh, team performed as might reasonably be expected), the more that you implicitly throw the spotjight on Chevy and /or other decision makers in the org. If the team indeed had no reasonable chance at modest playoff success, or even making the playoffs, what possible explanation is there for not shifting to a" developmental bias" with all decision -making? Would the year not be better utilized to further the individual development of players on the cusp of making the team, or just as importantly, to further the orgs understanding of the future potential of some players, for trade decisions or especially protection decisions in the Expansion draft ? Wouldn`t Chevy have taken a different approach to potential roster improvement at the TDL ?
I agree. I viewed this season as a developmental season, because the D wasn't good enough.

Clearly, Chevy knew that. Clearly, he and the hockey department decided to develop Samberg in the AHL this season, and keep Heinola from burning his ELC, if possible. My guess is that Chevy hoped to acquire a top D with some term at the trade deadline, especially with the Jets in a solid playoff position. But they weren't willing to sacrifice a top prospect to do that.

So, I agree with the assessment by Chevy that this was not a contender.

I still think it might have been better to play Heinola and Samberg at the NHL level this season, but time will tell.

But I think the heavy criticism of Maurice does take the spotlight off Chevy who made decisions that resulted in Maurice working with a terrible D this season. That seems unbalanced, to me.
 

Whileee

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Why do you believe that player development is better achieved at the NHL level playing lesser roles than it is in a league designed for player development by giving young players the opportunity to take on bigger responsibilities in an environment that allows them far more leeway to take risks and carry far greater responsibilities for team success?
Good post. I would have liked the Jets to develop Heinola and Samberg at the NHL level, but I think it's too early to decide if it was a mistake to take the approach they did.
 

KingBogo

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Good post. I would have liked the Jets to develop Heinola and Samberg at the NHL level, but I think it's too early to decide if it was a mistake to take the approach they did.
When I look around the league most organizations are slow to introduce their top d prospects to the NHL preferring them to spend development time in lower leagues in bigger roles. I’m always curious why our fan base feels rushed introduction into the NHL is better for player development. A few elite defenceman like Hughes is ready as a teenager the vast majority aren’t.
 

ecolad

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Why do you believe that player development is better achieved at the NHL level playing lesser roles than it is in a league designed for player development by giving young players the opportunity to take on bigger responsibilities in an environment that allows them far more leeway to take risks and carry far greater responsibilities for team success?

Never said that - said that the year would best be used "to further the individual development of players on the cusp of making the team"
My view is that player development occurs in a continuum across both leagues.. Of course, the bulk of development occurs at the AHL, where there is more individual coaching attention and opportunity for bigger responsibilities, but development continues as a player transitions to the big club ,and for some time thereafter as the player moves from a sheltered role to progressively more challenges.
 

KingBogo

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Never said that - said that the year would best be used "to further the individual development of players on the cusp of making the team"
My view is that player development occurs in a continuum across both leagues.. Of course, the bulk of development occurs at the AHL, where there is more individual coaching attention and opportunity for bigger responsibilities, but development continues as a player transitions to the big club ,and for some time thereafter as the player moves from a sheltered role to progressively more challenges.
Then why rush it especially from the organizational perspective of sliding ELCs and maximizing years of team control. It appears pretty obvious to me that Chevy was calling the shots on both Heinola and Samberg this season.
 

Weezeric

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When I look around the league most organizations are slow to introduce their top d prospects to the NHL preferring them to spend development time in lower leagues in bigger roles. I’m always curious why our fan base feels rushed introduction into the NHL is better for player development. A few elite defenceman like Hughes is ready as a teenager the vast majority aren’t.

We could always go with the Atlanta method of throwing 18 year olds straight into the fire. It sure worked out for 3rd overall pick Zack Bogosian. All of this while the defenceman picked before and after him played in developmental leagues before becoming cornerstone players in the NHL.
 
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surixon

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Then why rush it especially from the organizational perspective of sliding ELCs and maximizing years of team control. It appears pretty obvious to me that Chevy was calling the shots on both Heinola and Samberg this season.

They could have done it with players like Vesalainen and Harkins. Near ready/NHL players that spent a lot of time riding pine in the press box/taxi squad.

They approached this year as a year where they are trying to win based on usage and roster deployment. This org definitely wanted to make the playoffs and make some noise. The decision making would have been different imo if this was a true development or retool year.
 
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KingBogo

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They could have done it with players like Vesalainen and Harkins. Near ready/NHL players that spent a lot of time riding pine in the press box/taxi squad.

They approached this year as a year where they are trying to win based on usage and roster deployment. This org definitely wanted to make the playoffs and make some noise. The decision making would have been different imo if this was a true development or retool year.
I don’t think Ves has quite moved there yet but I think Harkins has moved passed prospect to serviceable bottom 6 winger category. He will now be used mostly as a spare part and likely soon bounce around the league looking for his best fit. Best case scenario is he is taken by Seattle in the ED.
 
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surixon

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I don’t think Ves has quite moved there yet but I think Harkins has moved passed prospect to serviceable bottom 6 winger category. He will now be used mostly as a spare part and likely soon bounce around the league looking for his best fit. Best case scenario is he is taken by Seattle in the ED.

Not sure about Harkin's just yet, he could take a big step forward ala Appelton next year if given a larger role. Appelton really didn't take the step he did until he got a full time look in the top 9.

Hard to read much into the spot time Ves and Harkins got. I think you need to see a good 10-15 games of Ves in a middle 6 role before you can really make a call. Having said that I think he is a key piece for a dmen with our first round pick this summer.

But yeah they didn't approach it as a year to give young players a look. We only moved young players into the lineup when injuries hit. Stanley wouldn't have gotten the games he did without the season ending injury to Beau. Moe was given the lattitude to approach the lineup as he saw fit and played his vets as he believed they gave him the best chance to win.

I do disagree a bit with your notion on development, I don't think development should ever stop for a player. Whether you are in the AHL or NHL a player should always be working on improving. I find that some of our issues are due to a lack of individual development at the NHL level. Conner has improved as a scorer and offensive player but there haven't been many strides in his defensive positioning or play as an example. I think this org could use a one on one development coach as part of their staff to specifically work with individual players on rounding out their games.
 
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ps241

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Not sure about Harkin's just yet, he could take a big step forward ala Appelton next year if given a larger role. Appelton really didn't take the step he did until he got a full time look in the top 9.

Hard to read much into the spot time Ves and Harkins got. I think you need to see a good 10-15 games of Ves in a middle 6 role before you can really make a call. Having said that I think he is a key piece for a dmen with our first round pick this summer.

But yeah they didn't approach it as a year to give young players a look. We only moved young players into the lineup when injuries hit. Stanley wouldn't have gotten the games he did without the season ending injury to Beau. Moe was given the lattitude to approach the lineup as he saw fit and played his vets as he believed they gave him the best chance to win.

I do disagree a bit with your notion on development, I don't think development should ever stop for a player. Whether you are in the AHL or NHL a player should always be working on improving. I find that some of our issues are due to a lack of individual development at the NHL level. Conner has improved as a scorer and offensive player but there haven't been many strides in his defensive positioning or play as an example. I think this org could use a one on one development coach as part of their staff to specifically work with individual players on rounding out their games.

I think the challenge as far as development goes at the NHL level is if you are part of the active roster there is very little time available for individual on ice development. Between games, travel, recovery, and mandatory days off there really isn’t enough time for team practice let alone individual skills focus. I think they work with guys on film review sessions but the seasons are very full and focused on winning every game. Now it doesn’t mean players are thrown to the wolves or left without direction but time is pretty scarce.

I think when guys are on the the taxi squad they get way more attention and work.

I was disappointed at the start of the season when Heinola and Samberg were not on the active roster but I have changed my mind on Dylan. I think Samberg was best served by heavy usage and individual attention with Vincent and his staff.

Ville I am not sold on how we handled him.... BUT......Ville got 20 games in Finland in SM-Liiga, then a month as a top player in the World Juniors, 19 games on the Moose, 5 games for the Jets. He has had a pretty active season split between 4 different teams. We will see what next season brings.
 

WaveRaven

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I believe they are obsessed with making the playoffs. That's the entire goal and hope for a Cinderella story. Last season they said they wanted a veteran 4th line. No more kids on that line.

Is that on Mo or Chevy or both. They need to keep incorporating youth into the lineup I believe but that's not the philosophy.
 
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Al Camino

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We could always go with the Atlanta method of throwing 18 year olds straight into the fire. It sure worked out for 3rd overall pick Zack Bogosian. All of this while the defenceman picked before and after him played in developmental leagues before becoming cornerstone players in the NHL.
Some of the D drafted later in the first round were complete busts so this isn't entirely accurate but no doubt and extra year in junior would have been good for the player and the team. But the scouting report at the time was that he was a phsycial freak and was an all tools prospect. And the one knock on him was his hockey sense. I'm not a scout but I have talked to my share of 'hockey men' and they all agree you can't teach hockey brains. With that shortcoming I would suggest that he always going end up disapointing.
 
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ecolad

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Seems to me Maurice did some of his best work when we were full in on the youth movement. The team was really building well and cumulated in the strong 17-18 year. After that the org switched to win now mode and haven't been nearly effective since. Maurice fell back more into his old school ways and Chevy wasn't able to full out the spots we needed filled.

I think we need to get back into build/development mode and try to further the young core we have:

Conner clearly can improve defensively and has the speed and skill to start driving play more.

Morrissey clearly has the ability to join in and contribute in a 5 man press offer I've scheme if coached and given the freedom to do it.

Schifele is still young enough he can really round out his game.

To me Individual player development has taken a back seat the last few seasons as we have put everything into winning. I think k if we get back to our roots and focus on development and integrating youth along with another top 4 dmen acquisition that will naturally take this team up a level and help keep us there.

Not to detract from your message here (which I agree with), but I think we have to look at Connor in a slightly different way. Imo, he definitely can be coached up to play better defensively; to make himself more available on breakouts; and to provide better support. I`m not sure that this applies to driving the play though - he has never shown this trait from his earliest NCAA days. Having said that, he hopefully will learn how to beat a defender one on one- something that he seems weak at even now. Ain`t no one needs to coach this guy on how to finish tho!! :)
 
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surixon

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Not to detract from your message here (which I agree with), but I think we have to look at Connor in a slightly different way. Imo, he definitely can be coached up to play better defensively; to make himself more available on breakouts; and to provide better support. I`m not sure that this applies to driving the play though - he has never shown this trait from his earliest NCAA days. Having said that, he hopefully will learn how to beat a defender one on one- something that he seems weak at even now. Ain`t no one needs to coach this guy on how to finish tho!! :)

I'm judging the play driving aspect by what I saw on the Moose and to less extent his highlights in the USHL.

He was lethal with the puck through the nz on the Moose but it hasn't translated or its not something that he really does on the Jets. I think he has the speed and hands to improve there but I think even if he does he'll be more of a secondary play driver.
 
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JetsUK

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I believe they are obsessed with making the playoffs. That's the entire goal and hope for a Cinderella story. Last season they said they wanted a veteran 4th line. No more kids on that line.

Is that on Mo or Chevy or both. They need to keep incorporating youth into the lineup I believe but that's not the philosophy.

I didn’t remember that, but as nice a surprise as Lewis has been, a rejuvenated MP85 is the straw that stirs that drink, and has been since he joined it, based on the eye test and the numbers for that line with and without him. I suspect dropping a prospect like Ves or Harkins onto it and trotting someone out to take FOs when needed would have provided similar and likely even better results. Those kids needed as much playing time as possible this year, and didn’t get it. And when they make mistakes their leash is short — just look at the long, long leash Beaulieu and Forbert had vs Stanley or Heinola, or the number of postgame comments PoMo devoted to their gaffes vs the radio silence following the endless run of poor plays and penalties put up by the vets.

Anyway, we shall see what we shall see. I suspect this staff gets another kick at the can next year and that this thread will be lively if the bet doesn’t pay off.
 
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pucka lucka

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I'm judging the play driving aspect by what I saw on the Moose and to less extent his highlights in the USHL.

He was lethal with the puck through the nz on the Moose but it hasn't translated or its not something that he really does on the Jets. I think he has the speed and hands to improve there but I think even if he does he'll be more of a secondary play driver.
Connor plays somewhat scared in the NHL. He’s afraid to attack physically. It was particularly obvious early in his NHL career. He rarely initiates a physical battle to get to the net off the rush or otherwise.
 

surixon

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Connor plays somewhat scared in the NHL. He’s afraid to attack physically. It was particularly obvious early in his NHL career. He rarely initiates a physical battle to get to the net off the rush or otherwise.

Yeah its odd as he generally is in quickly on the forecheck and is solid on the offensive boards and cycle.
 

Ducky10

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They’re great at defending behind the net and the outside of the hash marks though, lol. The Jets idea of a gap is giving up the entire neutral zone and bank on blocking shots.
 
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