Coach Discussion: Coaching Thread

[JetsFan815]

They are step ahead of Hendricks and Bourque, at least in skating. I've been okay with Lewis, but Thompson has been pretty rough.

Hendricks was easily better than Thompson. Better hands and better hockey iq. I remember him actually making plays with Perreault eventhough skating was a challenge for him.

 

[voyageur]

I am somewhat sympathetic to the pecking order argument, and I think that's clearly the rationale for having Beaulieu in the line-up over the young prospects like Samberg, Heinola and Stanley. I'm sure that there is a socialization component within the team that the coaching staff wants to consider. Decisions about line-ups are seldom purely about talent / performance. Having said that, I think that Samberg could join the Jets' line-up right now and improve the team. I expect that it will take a couple of injuries for that to happen, though.

The PK is so underrated in these parts.

If you follow the momentum of the Canucks game, we tie the game on a goal by Scheifele. Two shifts later we're in the box on the Forbort penalty. 2-2, midway 3rd period. Beaulieu has about a 1:30 minute shift on the PK because the puck can't get deep enough to change d-men though we get another zone clear to change forwards, after the initial clear by Beaulieu. We kill off the penalty, and draw one on the next shift after. Which leads to a 3-2 goal. Jets lead. Canucks score on that sequence and we're chasing the game. Now the question is could Samberg play that 1:30 minutes? Is he ready for Pettersson, Mc David, Matthews on the PK. Because that's the end game, the spot he has to fill when a 1st unit defender goes down. On the road could be a full 2 minute shift in the long change 2nd. But with the game on the line, do you think Samberg is ready for that? I'd be easing him pretty slowly. Poolman hasn't been a PK factor yet this year, for whatever reason, injury or coaching, but that seems like the way to get him in the lineup. Sooner or later.

To get Heinola in the lineup, we are either going to need Poolman to take Beaulieu's spot, and one of Pionk or Morrissey to be consistent on the PK this year. Worst metrics for d are Morrissey, who looks afraid to block shots. Other option is 7 d-men, as I think you could make a pretty good argument that Heinola would deliver a bigger impact in a 7 d situation that Thompson/Harkins would in a 12 forward alignment.

But the whole vet favoritism seems overblown, given that Vesalainen, Gustafsson, Stanley and Heinola have all got to play so far this year. If anything we've been constricted by the Forsberg roster space, and dancing around the Cap, with Little LTIR factoring, early, but managed to get quite a few games in for young players. All the vets have been solid, except Beaulieu 5 on 5 has been marginal, so far. But he's filled his role on the team. . Which is a factor in our winning record. Thompson hasn't allowed a goal against 5 on 5, but hasn't been great, admittedly, and lost his PK role to Apples, conceivably for good.

 

[BigZ65]

As much as that has been true in the past, Thompson and Lewis are not bad skaters and are not 4 steps behind the play. They are much better than a lot of the 4th line vets that Maurice has favourd such as Hendricks.

Lewis is fine. Thompson has barely touched the puck after the draw.

 

[cbcwpg]

IMO it doesn't matter who is on the 4th line, vet or rookie, Maurice won't play them. Game after game, season after season, Maurice's 4th line has the least amount of minutes played in the league.

Just a random game between two good teams... Vegas and Colorado... in last nights game there was only one (1) player on both teams combined that played less than 10 minutes. Almost ever game the Jets will have 3 players with less than 10 minutes.

 

[surixon]

The PK is so underrated in these parts.

If you follow the momentum of the Canucks game, we tie the game on a goal by Scheifele. Two shifts later we're in the box on the Forbort penalty. 2-2, midway 3rd period. Beaulieu has about a 1:30 minute shift on the PK because the puck can't get deep enough to change d-men though we get another zone clear to change forwards, after the initial clear by Beaulieu. We kill off the penalty, and draw one on the next shift after. Which leads to a 3-2 goal. Jets lead. Canucks score on that sequence and we're chasing the game. Now the question is could Samberg play that 1:30 minutes? Is he ready for Pettersson, Mc David, Matthews on the PK. Because that's the end game, the spot he has to fill when a 1st unit defender goes down. On the road could be a full 2 minute shift in the long change 2nd. But with the game on the line, do you think Samberg is ready for that? I'd be easing him pretty slowly. Poolman hasn't been a PK factor yet this year, for whatever reason, injury or coaching, but that seems like the way to get him in the lineup. Sooner or later.

To get Heinola in the lineup, we are either going to need Poolman to take Beaulieu's spot, and one of Pionk or Morrissey to be consistent on the PK this year. Worst metrics for d are Morrissey, who looks afraid to block shots. Other option is 7 d-men, as I think you could make a pretty good argument that Heinola would deliver a bigger impact in a 7 d situation that Thompson/Harkins would in a 12 forward alignment.

But the whole vet favoritism seems overblown, given that Vesalainen, Gustafsson, Stanley and Heinola have all got to play so far this year. If anything we've been constricted by the Forsberg roster space, and dancing around the Cap, with Little LTIR factoring, early, but managed to get quite a few games in for young players. All the vets have been solid, except Beaulieu 5 on 5 has been marginal, so far. But he's filled his role on the team. . Which is a factor in our winning record. Thompson hasn't allowed a goal against 5 on 5, but hasn't been great, admittedly, and lost his PK role to Apples, conceivably for good.

Morrissey is actually middle of the pack in terms of PK metrics. You are once again focused too much on GA. I think Helle posting an .800 (easily the worst among pk dmen) save percentage when Morrissey is on the ice has more to do with the goals given up then Morrissey's play on the pk.

 

[Jet]

I am somewhat sympathetic to the pecking order argument, and I think that's clearly the rationale for having Beaulieu in the line-up over the young prospects like Samberg, Heinola and Stanley. I'm sure that there is a socialization component within the team that the coaching staff wants to consider. Decisions about line-ups are seldom purely about talent / performance. Having said that, I think that Samberg could join the Jets' line-up right now and improve the team. I expect that it will take a couple of injuries for that to happen, though.

Yup - I am totally in agreement here.

 

[LowLefty]

IMO it doesn't matter who is on the 4th line, vet or rookie, Maurice won't play them. Game after game, season after season, Maurice's 4th line has the least amount of minutes played in the league.

Just a random game between two good teams... Vegas and Colorado... in last nights game there was only one (1) player on both teams combined that played less than 10 minutes. Almost ever game the Jets will have 3 players with less than 10 minutes.

I agree - our 4th will not see a ton of minutes regardless.
Do you happen to know how our 3rd line minutes stack up across the league?
I wouldn't be surprised if our 3rd was seeing above average minutes (which might impact the 4th)

 

[Buffdog]

In his media availability the other day after the moose game, Samberg was asked specifically what the differences between the systems he played in college vs the systems he's learning on the moose (that are same/similar to the jets).

He mentionned that in college there was a lot of dumping into the ozone and rimming pucks in the dzone. He talked about gaining entry with possession, and making reads to make plays with the puck before wrapping it as a last option.

As ready as he is, those adjustments are easier to make at the ahl level where you have more time and space. He's basically reprogramming 3 years of play.

I have a feeling we'll see him up with the jets at some point, but to say that he's just down there because of seniority or because management is clueless is false. He'll benefit from it. Look at how easily Appleton and Harkins (and to some degree vesalainen) have integrated into our line up and our systems. It's because of their time in the moose and the coaching of PV.

The same could be said for heinola, to some degree.

 

[voyageur]

Morrissey is actually middle of the pack in terms of PK metrics. You are once again focused too much on GA. I think Helle posting an .800 (easily the worst among pk dmen) save percentage when Morrissey is on the ice has more to do with the goals given up then Morrissey's play on the pk.

Goals against matter. Especially on special teams.

 

[surixon]

Goals against matter. Especially on special teams.

Yeah they do but there are 4 other players on the ice so isolating one player based on goals against isn't all that useful.

Hes suppressing shots and chances against similarly to the other dmen, he's just not getting as many saves as the other dmen on the PK. Over a big enough sample his goals against likely normalizes.

 

[Whileee]

We've had discussions about the value (or lack) of using a player like Thompson as a specialist for PK face-offs. Here's an interesting analysis. Short version: winning a PK face-off has a substantial impact on overall shot attempts against per 60. It suggests that it's not necessarily a bad strategy, as long as the player is indeed substantially better at face-offs than other roster options.

 

[RustyCat]

The PK is so underrated in these parts.

If you follow the momentum of the Canucks game, we tie the game on a goal by Scheifele. Two shifts later we're in the box on the Forbort penalty. 2-2, midway 3rd period. Beaulieu has about a 1:30 minute shift on the PK because the puck can't get deep enough to change d-men though we get another zone clear to change forwards, after the initial clear by Beaulieu. We kill off the penalty, and draw one on the next shift after. Which leads to a 3-2 goal. Jets lead. Canucks score on that sequence and we're chasing the game. Now the question is could Samberg play that 1:30 minutes? Is he ready for Pettersson, Mc David, Matthews on the PK. Because that's the end game, the spot he has to fill when a 1st unit defender goes down. On the road could be a full 2 minute shift in the long change 2nd. But with the game on the line, do you think Samberg is ready for that? I'd be easing him pretty slowly. Poolman hasn't been a PK factor yet this year, for whatever reason, injury or coaching, but that seems like the way to get him in the lineup. Sooner or later.

To get Heinola in the lineup, we are either going to need Poolman to take Beaulieu's spot, and one of Pionk or Morrissey to be consistent on the PK this year. Worst metrics for d are Morrissey, who looks afraid to block shots. Other option is 7 d-men, as I think you could make a pretty good argument that Heinola would deliver a bigger impact in a 7 d situation that Thompson/Harkins would in a 12 forward alignment.

But the whole vet favoritism seems overblown, given that Vesalainen, Gustafsson, Stanley and Heinola have all got to play so far this year. If anything we've been constricted by the Forsberg roster space, and dancing around the Cap, with Little LTIR factoring, early, but managed to get quite a few games in for young players. All the vets have been solid, except Beaulieu 5 on 5 has been marginal, so far. But he's filled his role on the team. . Which is a factor in our winning record. Thompson hasn't allowed a goal against 5 on 5, but hasn't been great, admittedly, and lost his PK role to Apples, conceivably for good.

This is a great post. Really good analysis.

 

[JetsFan815]

FWIW Claude Julien is getting roasted by the Habs media and fans for rolling 4 lines. As was Babcock in his first 2 years of the Matthews era... grass is always greener.

 

[JetsFan815]

We've had discussions about the value (or lack) of using a player like Thompson as a specialist for PK face-offs. Here's an interesting analysis. Short version: winning a PK face-off has a substantial impact on overall shot attempts against per 60. It suggests that it's not necessarily a bad strategy, as long as the player is indeed substantially better at face-offs than other roster options.

Would be nice... if Thompson actually took any faceoffs and Maurice actually had confidence in him to put him out on the PK consistently which despite Maurice's big talk in the press conferences he hasn't backed it up by actions.

 

[Hunter368]

FWIW Claude Julien is getting roasted by the Habs media and fans for rolling 4 lines. As was Babcock in his first 2 years of the Matthews era... grass is always greener.

Many of the team's fans hate their coaches for their team, just read any of their boards. It's just a HFB/fan thing, fans criticize players, coaches, GM's, owners, refs, off ice officials, player safety, singers, colour commentators, the commissioner, etc......it's what fans do.

 

[garret9]

And yet both WPG goalies are doing well, but there's some pitchforks out for the coach...

 

[DRW204]

idk much about julien to say if he's better or worse than maurice. mtl seems like they have a good roster (kinda reminds me of year 1 vegas), lack high-end players/talent that can put up points or score like the Jets have. But they do out-shoot/out-chance their opponents. is that coaching? or just pure on-ice talent? who knows. But this league is GF/GA which evidently results in W/L. They can out-shoot and out-chance the opponents as much as they want, but if they aint getting GF or limiting the GA, it doesn't matter.

if julien is a coach that will help teams out-shoot and out-chance their opponents nightly, given the Jets on-ice finishing talent and point producers, and who the goalie is.... sure i guess he's an upgrade over maurice. we get caved in nightly but our fwds have superior finishing talent and the best goalie in the division so we can get out of these jams. is that a viable or sustainable strategy? probably not. producing more shots with our finishing talent, and limiting shots with our goalie is a recipe for success, but we are near the bottom of the league in out-shooting/out-chancing the opponents over the past few years.

julien has 2 PO appearances in 5 years w/ MTL is 7-9
maurice has 3 PO appearances in (going on) 8 years and is 12-15

 

[voyageur]

idk much about julien to say if he's better or worse than maurice. mtl seems like they have a good roster (kinda reminds me of year 1 vegas), lack high-end players/talent that can put up points or score like the Jets have. But they do out-shoot/out-chance their opponents. is that coaching? or just pure on-ice talent? who knows. But this league is GF/GA which evidently results in W/L. They can out-shoot and out-chance the opponents as much as they want, but if they aint getting GF or limiting the GA, it doesn't matter.

if julien is a coach that will help teams out-shoot and out-chance their opponents nightly, given the Jets on-ice finishing talent and point producers, and who the goalie is.... sure i guess he's an upgrade over maurice. we get caved in nightly but our fwds have superior finishing talent and the best goalie in the division so we can get out of these jams. is that a viable or sustainable strategy? probably not. producing more shots with our finishing talent, and limiting shots with our goalie is a recipe for success, but we are near the bottom of the league in out-shooting/out-chancing the opponents over the past few years.

julien has 2 PO appearances in 5 years w/ MTL is 7-9
maurice has 3 PO appearances in (going on) 8 years and is 12-15

Last year's Jets would have made the playoffs. They were trending the right way before the layoff. Had beaten Washington, their nemesis, had beaten Edmonton. Team was rolling after the trade deadline. So if they finished 9th in points %, a hair behind Calgary, good chance we would have passed either them or Vancouver.

So to say we missed the playoffs in a shortened season deserves an asterisk at the very least.

And to include his first year in which Noel sunk us, is also doing a disservice. Maurice went 18-12-5 taking over, to make the playoffs he would have had to have gone 22-8-5.

I could say in 6 full seasons, Maurice has got the team to the playoffs 4 times, including the farthest in franchise history, and I would be partially right. Looks better that way, especially as we look like a playoff team again.

 

[wpgfishfan]

So Habs fire Julien and pay him 7.5 mill or last 1.5 years on contract

Any idea what Maurice makes and how long is left

 

[wpgfishfan]

Last year's Jets would have made the playoffs. They were trending the right way before the layoff. Had beaten Washington, their nemesis, had beaten Edmonton. Team was rolling after the trade deadline. So if they finished 9th in points %, a hair behind Calgary, good chance we would have passed either them or Vancouver.

So to say we missed the playoffs in a shortened season deserves an asterisk at the very least.

And to include his first year in which Noel sunk us, is also doing a disservice. Maurice went 18-12-5 taking over, to make the playoffs he would have had to have gone 22-8-5.

I could say in 6 full seasons, Maurice has got the team to the playoffs 4 times, including the farthest in franchise history, and I would be partially right. Looks better that way, especially as we look like a playoff team again.

We didn't make playoffs or even win play in series to make it.

One thing left out is Julien has won a cup

 

[voyageur]

We didn't make playoffs or even win play in series to make it.

One thing left out is Julien has won a cup

The whole season last year is out of whack. I have every reason to believe we would have made the playoffs. Hell we might have even finished #3 in our division the way Dallas was faltering. The playins were a shambles, losing Scheifele, Laine, Appleton game 1. So I'm not sure what you take out of it. A regular season grind, with a playoffs immediately following would have been different than a 4 1/2 month layoff and a tournament held in a bubble. Much different. So like I say an asterisk at best on this one, if we are criticizing the coach.

Julien did win a Cup with Boston, to his credit. And Colie Campbell's. That was a good team, and that Peverley trade is still paying dividends here. Still don't think that Julien is a great coach. He's definitely more on the defensive side, to the point of taking the offense out of his teams.

 

[DRW204]

Last year's Jets would have made the playoffs. They were trending the right way before the layoff. Had beaten Washington, their nemesis, had beaten Edmonton. Team was rolling after the trade deadline. So if they finished 9th in points %, a hair behind Calgary, good chance we would have passed either them or Vancouver.

So to say we missed the playoffs in a shortened season deserves an asterisk at the very least.

And to include his first year in which Noel sunk us, is also doing a disservice. Maurice went 18-12-5 taking over, to make the playoffs he would have had to have gone 22-8-5.

I could say in 6 full seasons, Maurice has got the team to the playoffs 4 times, including the farthest in franchise history, and I would be partially right. Looks better that way, especially as we look like a playoff team again.

team made an expanded playoffs a field of 24. you cant predict the future, neither can i. no clue if they would have made a top 8 in the west. by pts% when the season finished they were 9th in the west and outside the POs. they were 20th in the entire league. they also didn't make it past the play-in into the playoffs.

nevertheless they have moved on from the first round once in 7 years. that's not good. they're trending to be the Minnesota Wild of PO teams, except with arguably superior roster to those Wild teams.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

L

We didn't make playoffs or even win play in series to make it.

One thing left out is Julien has won a cup

But seems like he loses the room lots. Maurice... U can bitch but the guy doesn't lose the room and hasn't in almost 8 seasons. Montreal ? Obviously there are bigger problems. Although rumors are he didn't like the up tempo style they played to start the year and is more comfy playing almost trap like hockey. Jets fans would hate him n

 

[Gabe Kupari]

team made an expanded playoffs a field of 24. you cant predict the future, neither can i. no clue if they would have made a top 8 in the west. by pts% when the season finished they were 9th in the west and outside the POs. they were 20th in the entire league.

nevertheless they have moved on from the first round once in 7 years. that's not good. they're trending to be the Minnesota Wild of PO teams, except with arguably superior roster to those Wild teams.

Are we forgetting the buff f***ing the team situation?

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Maurice probably has the most excuses made for him that I've ever seen for a coach lol. 20 seasons no cups, 7 seasons in Winnipeg, 2 playoff rounds won and yet people really want to argue there's no reason he should be fired and find an excuse for his lack of results. He's probably going to get another season at this rate as well because we have enough talent to make the playoffs in these modified divisions.

Sigh, I just want something new.