Coaches who did not deserve to be fired

[Big Phil]

How about practically every time he was fired?

I thought of the Philly thing too. Clarke saying "We didn't tell him to get cancer................" which he probably didn't mean the way it sounded, but still poorly worded. I guess they almost had to fire him though. It sucks, and I don't want to be the guy firing a guy with cancer but even Neilson seemed to understand the situation of it.

In fairness, that 107 point team had dissolved like a cream puff in the first round against Nathan Mackinnon and... Nathan Mackinnon.

I dont think the firing was a move they had to think long and hard about, considering his NHL track record of four years of... existing with the perpetually underwhelming Hurricanes. And then Aliugate and Kickgate come to light. Cmon man, I might have been ready to fire the guy based on his performance even before the allegations happened.

The Flames certainly used it as a reason to fire him if they had wanted to.

More general comment on Keenan, ya think if hed settled down in one place for longer than a few years, his program of importing his boys and shaping them into teams that played Keenan hockey might have had decent results? Look how many assets he wasted over the years bringing in his Noonans and Larmers and Corsons on 3 or 4 different teams

Yeah maybe. The thing was he was good in the short term (both Canada Cups) and even good over a few years with Philly and Chicago. Not sure how the Rangers would have fared if he stayed, but they were still pretty good for a few years after. I don't think he would have made it worse.

 

[double5son10]

Seems like the Bruins have a long history of extremely short leashes on some coaches. Fred Creighton comes to mind as another odd example. Probably Jacobses/Sinden related, but who knows.

Tom Johnson. Two 50+ win seasons and a Stanley Cup, but he gets relieved of his duties by Sinden and kicked upstairs with a 31-16-5 record in his third season.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

I thought of the Philly thing too.

Yeah, and there were the weird firings by the Sabres and Rangers, too, & the completely inexplicable Kings & Panthers firings... even when the Canucks let him go - which was to a certain extent understandable - I was upset about it, and even more upset when the team went further south under his replacement Bill LaForge. I know, it seems he was always maybe rubbing somebody powerful in the organization in the wrong way, or maybe he's the unluckiest coach of all time, but with his innovative style and his ability to motivate players, you'd think some team would've given him a longer leash at some point, but they never did. With his pedigree, you always expected more from his career. I never understood why Keenan got so much rope but Neilson never did.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Yeah, and there were the weird firings by the Sabres and Rangers, too, & the completely inexplicable Kings & Panthers firings... even when the Canucks let him go - which was to a certain extent understandable - I was upset about it, and even more upset when the team went further south under his replacement Bill LaForge. I know, it seems he was always maybe rubbing somebody powerful in the organization in the wrong way, or maybe he's the unluckiest coach of all time, but with his innovative style and his ability to motivate players, you'd think some team would've given him a longer leash at some point, but they never did. With his pedigree, you always expected more from his career. I never understood why Keenan got so much rope but Neilson never did.

A brief history of Neilson firings:

The Leafs... well thats Ballard doing stupid Ballard things. A real shame because that was the team that seemed to mesh with his style the best of all, and Neilson with a paper bag over his head still would have been better than peak Imlach.

Buffalo was Bowman being unable to keep his butt planted in the GMs seat during games. Youve probably heard the telephone coaching game stories before...

The Canucks firing appears to have been Neale thinking the team had more potential than it really did. Also worth noting that this was before Laforge came in and ruined Rotas shoulder with the gauntlet drills, so the team was thought to have a little more talent than it did bottoming out in 1985-1986.

Vancouver coach Roger Neilson was fired after the Canucks...

Im not super clear on the LA Kings firing, but they were 8-17-3 after 28 so I dont think he gets that much benefit of the doubt.

The Rangers firing was response to their bottoming out year in 1993, but also how he handled it. Messier had a tendency to act as almost a coach 1B in the dressing room, and he clashed with Neilson on offensive-defensive balance, Messier wanted to attack more, Neilson wanted to play more conservatively.

Neilson responded with a bizarre series of moves, going to a group of Messiers best friends on the team (Graves, Gartner, Beukeboom I think?) and telling them that he wanted them to be his leadership core instead of Messier, that Messier had quit on the team. Long story short, Messier quietly used his influence to get his way, but Neilson made some odd moves in the whole process that made you question his interpersonal skills.

The Panthers firing is admittedly strange

Panthers fire coach Roger Neilson

And cancer ended his time in Philly.

 

[a79krgm]

Herb Brooks firing in Minnesota after 1987-88. This was a team decimated by injuries and failing veterans. Hartsburg, Payne, Fraser, Broten, etc. Some coaches get a break when this happens. Herb did not.

 

[hypereconomist]

Hartley being fired from the Flames in 2015-16 was undeserved. He was not perfect (i.e. defensive play was terrible), but he was getting the most out of the Flames roster in every year that he coached. Especially in 215-16, Hudler and Frolik were injured for a good portion of the year, which left him with three decent forwards in the top 6 (Gaudreau, Monahan, and Backlund), and he had no shutdown dmen to help shoulder Giordano and Brodie's load or anchor the second pairing.

Mike Keenan being fired from the Flames in '09 was arguably undeserved. He was not perfect (i.e. PP was terrible and defensive play was terrible), but in both years he took two top-heavy rosters that had zero offensive or defensive depth to the playoffs. He had much more success than his successor did while coaching equal or slightly less talented teams (Brent Sutter didn't make the playoffs at all).

Gerard Gallant being fired from the Panthers in 2016-17 was undeserved and quite bizarre. He was getting good results out of a team that lacked forward and defensive depth, his successor coached them to a worse record, he went on to coach Vegas to the finals, and his playoff appearance is the last time the Panthers were in the playoffs.

 

[Big Phil]

Quite recent of course, but when your former team loses to an emergency back up and zamboni-driving goalie it only makes the fired coach look like maybe things weren't really his fault. (Obviously I am refering to Kyle "Lenscrafters" Dubas firing Mike Babcock)

 

[vikash1987]

I actually thought of him right away, and although Bowman comes in and, well, the rest is history, the truth is he did sort of get a raw deal didn't he? I know there was the language issue thing with benching Henri Richard and stuff, although I have heard Henri say he had never thought of such a thing at the time. He just feuded with MacNeil. Yvan Cournoyer I have heard as well say something along the lines of "with the issue of language we speak both (English and French) so that's not a problem". I think it was probably just the rift within the team. Red Fischer asked Sam Pollock after he fired MacNeil why he did it. "The guy won you a Cup Sam!" Apparently according to Fischer Pollock said "I didn't demote him, I just.............shuffled the cabinet." Well, there you go.

Al MacNeil was, literally, carried off the ice in triumph by his players during the Cup celebration. To go from that image one minute of being on top of the hockey mountain to getting demoted to the AHL the next minute—well, I can’t think of a better example for this thread.

Was it really his lack of French-speaking ability that did him in, or was it the fact that Henri Richard branded him in no uncertain terms as incompetent and the worst coach he had ever played for?

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

Florida firing Gallant was terrible.

 

[Big Phil]

Al MacNeil was, literally, carried off the ice in triumph by his players during the Cup celebration. To go from that image one minute of being on top of the hockey mountain to getting demoted to the AHL the next minute—well, I can’t think of a better example for this thread.

Was it really his lack of French-speaking ability that did him in, or was it the fact that Henri Richard branded him in no uncertain terms as incompetent and the worst coach he had ever played for?

I am just guessing that the media made it a language issue and the real reason was that there was controversy within the team with one of its star players which never happened publicly in Montreal. They knew how to handle things on that team back then.

 

[tony d]

What about Robbie Ftorek in 2000 with New Jersey? I believe they were in 1st place when he was fired. I know they went on to win the Cup but still a bit of an odd firing by a first place team.

 

[Big Phil]

What about Robbie Ftorek in 2000 with New Jersey? I believe they were in 1st place when he was fired. I know they went on to win the Cup but still a bit of an odd firing by a first place team.

I don't know why they did it, but Larry Robinson comes in and they win a Cup right away. It happened to Ftorek in 2003 as well with Boston. With a handful of games left in the season on a playoff team he is fired.

To this day when I think of Ftorek's name as a coach I think of when he was coaching the Kings and Gretzky was traded there and he claimed that Gretzky was "just going to be another player" on the team. Uh-huh.

 

[Normand Lacombe]

Bill Dineen in Philadelphia. With only Lindros, Brind'Amour and Recchi as top caliber players, Dineen nearly got a bad team with subpar goaltending and a porous defense into the playoffs in 1993. The team loved playing for him and always gave their best effort despite the talent deficiencies. Dineen's reward was being reassigned within the organization by GM Russ Farwell after the season.

 

[Gilles Meloche]

How about poor Barry Melrose lasting just 16 games with the Tampa Bay Lightning in 2008??

Lightning fire Melrose as coach after 16 games

 

[c9777666]

Bill Dineen in Philadelphia. With only Lindros, Brind'Amour and Recchi as top caliber players, Dineen nearly got a bad team with subpar goaltending and a porous defense into the playoffs in 1993. The team loved playing for him and always gave their best effort despite the talent deficiencies. Dineen's reward was being reassigned within the organization by GM Russ Farwell after the season.

They also got 35 goals from Kevin Dineen and 62 points from veteran blueliner Garry Galley.

Those 5 players and Brent Fedyk (linemate with Lindros and Recchi on the Crazy 8's) were basically Philly's 6-player engine

 

[Big Phil]

How about poor Barry Melrose lasting just 16 games with the Tampa Bay Lightning in 2008??

Lightning fire Melrose as coach after 16 games

I remember when he got fired and he said in an interview that Steve Stamkos didn't belong in the NHL in his rookie year and was better served being in the OHL again. It has aged well, but I sort of get what he meant at that time. Stamkos had 4 points in his first 17 games of the season, he got off to a very slow start in his NHL career but ended up with a decent amount of 46 points and was getting a point per game his last 20 games. Then the next year he gets 51 goals. So, obviously Melrose was wrong.

But what killed him was the comments he made after he was fired when he said something along the lines of "don't kid yourself, every coach that gets fired doesn't want to see his former team do well afterwards and whoever says they do is lying."

He isn't wrong again, but stuff like that might keep another GM from hiring you in the future. Which was strange why he was hired in the first place after 15 years of not being a head coach in the NHL.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Im not super clear on the LA Kings firing, but they were 8-17-3 after 28 so I dont think he gets that much benefit of the doubt.

I seem to recall shenanigans and controversy related to the firing... maybe something to do with Pat Quinn? Maybe somebody recalls or has better research skills?

 

[MXD]

Randy Cunneyworth 2012 - If you can't speak much French in Montreal then that will be a problem from the get go, I get that, but why even hire him in the first place? Perhaps the Habs should broaden their pool of talent to choose from. They've fired Michel Therrien twice and are almost certainly going to fire Claude Julien for a second time as well. Did Scotty Bowman, Toe Blake and Dick Irvin know a lot of french? Because if they didn't do you really take back those Cups?

How exactly Randy Cunneyworth didn't deserve to be fired? He was an interim coach that led his team to a .400 record, and an apparently bad coach (since he was fired twice and was apparently plucked from a shallow pool, despite Crawford being very publically considered) led them to a .650 record, and that's with Carey Price playing worse hockey.

Come to think of it, was there ever an interim HC being retained after leading his team to a .400 record? Why would things have to be different for Cunneyworth? Because he's an Ontario boy?

Bowman speaks good French. Apprently Blake did to a certain extent.

 

[Big Phil]

How exactly Randy Cunneyworth didn't deserve to be fired? He was an interim coach that led his team to a .400 record, and an apparently bad coach (since he was fired twice and was apparently plucked from a shallow pool, despite Crawford being very publically considered) led them to a .650 record, and that's with Carey Price playing worse hockey.

Come to think of it, was there ever an interim HC being retained after leading his team to a .400 record? Why would things have to be different for Cunneyworth? Because he's an Ontario boy?

Bowman speaks good French. Apprently Blake did to a certain extent.

The Habs went 18-23-9 under Cunneyworth. No, that isn't spectacular hockey. I am not complaining about him deserving another shot because of his record, I am saying that this guy was under the gun from the get go and it became perfectly clear to him that he was out the door because he couldn't speak French. My question is, you know this about him upon hiring him but still hire him only to fire him.

 

[billybudd]

What about Robbie Ftorek in 2000 with New Jersey? I believe they were in 1st place when he was fired. I know they went on to win the Cup but still a bit of an odd firing by a first place team.

There were a few incidents in Ftorek's career where he'd behave bizarrely in public. Throwing a bench on the ice, ripping his shirt off like the Hulk during a game (etc). I think he may have once told a Devils beat writer that he viewed himself as a worthless loser (or something along those lines).

My guess is there are many more such incidents that never became public knowledge. Was probably terminated for acting crazy around the practice rink in some capacity.

 

[MXD]

The Habs went 18-23-9 under Cunneyworth. No, that isn't spectacular hockey. I am not complaining about him deserving another shot because of his record, I am saying that this guy was under the gun from the get go and it became perfectly clear to him that he was out the door because he couldn't speak French. My question is, you know this about him upon hiring him but still hire him only to fire him.

Well, there's this matter of the GM hiring him being fired in the interim too.

"Not spectacular hockey"... It was craptacular. Also nobody hired him in a coaching capacity since.

 

[Brodeur]

What about Robbie Ftorek in 2000 with New Jersey? I believe they were in 1st place when he was fired. I know they went on to win the Cup but still a bit of an odd firing by a first place team.

Devils had fizzled in the playoffs in 1997-1999 and were hitting a wall down the stretch. So while they were in first place, Lou Lamoriello didn't like how they were trending.

With only eight games left in the regular season, the Devils did the unthinkable -- firing Ftorek, even though his team leads the Eastern Conference in points (97).

The Devils had only five wins in 17 games, prompting general manager Lou Lamoriello to promote assistant coach Larry Robinson.

Ftorek had rubbed some guys the wrong way that season. Lyle Odelein asked for a trade despite being on a contender. After looking up an article to jog my memory, I also found this tidbit:

The entire team was irked when Ftorek sat 16-year veteran Ken Daneyko when he was two games short of 1,000. The move cost Daneyko the chance to reach the milestone at home. And when Ftorek sat goalie Martin Brodeur Tuesday, he ended Brodeur's chance to break Bernie Parent's record of 47 victories in a season.

A quote from Odelein after he was dealt:

“A lot of other players have trouble with him. The guys are just playing for one another,” Odelein said. “It’s like Montreal in 1986. They played for one another, won the Stanley Cup, and the coach got fired the next year.”

Claude again in Jersey as well, didn't even get a full season.

Has them at 47-24-8, 107 points with 3 games to go and is inexplicably fired in the final week of the season.

Now as a Bruins fan I'm thrilled they did because it immediately led to him coming here...but what was Lou smoking?

This one sorta reminded me of the Ftorek situation; The team was in first place but was middling down the stretch. Lou made the change in 2000 and it led to a Cup, so perhaps he felt emboldened to try it again. We just heard rumors that Julien had lost the room to a certain degree, with a practice incident with John Madden being the catalyst.

"First of all, no decision of this magnitude is ever made overnight," said Lamoriello. "All I can say is, in the seat where I sit . . . we have information and knowledge that no one else has. We have to make whatever decisions we think are right for the franchise and the organization. That's my responsibility.

"It's not an easy day. It's not an easy thing to do, especially having 100-points-plus. You can look at it all different ways. But you don't do this just for the sake of doing it; you do it for the reasons you have, and the responsibility you have towards your players and your ownership."

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

I seem to recall shenanigans and controversy related to the firing... maybe something to do with Pat Quinn? Maybe somebody recalls or has better research skills?

I literally cannot find any clear answers on the LA firing beyond the record, not even a news article mentioning the firing.

This article talks about the Canucks firing.

Roger Neilson sat in his hotel room Thursday wondering...

If anything, Neale does seem like an idiot for expecting Neilson to somehow make the early 80s Canucks better than the 80s Oilers.

 

[double5son10]

Al MacNeil was, literally, carried off the ice in triumph by his players during the Cup celebration. To go from that image one minute of being on top of the hockey mountain to getting demoted to the AHL the next minute—well, I can’t think of a better example for this thread.

Was it really his lack of French-speaking ability that did him in, or was it the fact that Henri Richard branded him in no uncertain terms as incompetent and the worst coach he had ever played for?

He received death threats and had to have a 24hr security detail, including on the bench next to him for game 6 of the Finals after Richard's comments were picked up by the French media and made into a language issue. Remember that the 1970-71 season was the year of the October Crisis, the mood in Quebec was at a boiling point. I've always understood that McNeil accepted his demotion with grace, since the situation had been a nightmare for him and his family and the job with the Voyageurs was in his native Nova Scotia. He certainly turned them into a powerhouse, winning three Calder Cups and was a huge influence in developing a lot of the Habs dynasty players. I've understood there were people in the Canadiens organization that were more concerned with him leaving the organization in '79 for the Flames job, than were of Bowman leaving for Buffalo, he was considered that valuable to the Habs success.

 

[VanIslander]

Ted Nolan in 1997 wins the Jack Adams trophy as coach of the year as his hard-working Sabres surprisingly wins its division with third-rate offensive talents Plante and Holzinger, also winning a playoff series. Then he is fired over disputes with the GM.

It would take 10 years for the Jack Adams winner to get another job, and what happens? GM Snow and owner Wang have big plans for the draft and I recall a lot of HfBoards chatter about how Nolan's surging comeback Isles were competing for a playoff berth (had a low probability of it midseason but Nolan coached them hard and they made the playoffs), the GM not happy, wanting more youth to get ice time, basically grimacing a smile at press conferences after wins down the stretch.

Nolan went on to coach Latvia to a 1-1 third period tie against Canada in the Olympic playoff round that almost became the greatest upset ever, until Weber's goal with seven minutes remaining eked out a 2-1 Canada win over one of the NHL's most misaligned great coaches in the history of the game.