Clutterbuck Very Disappointing in Debut, But Getting Better???

[Darth Milbury]

On the trade value - you absolutely have to add Wang to that equation. The routine use of ELCs to pad the cap floor. Same with 35+ vets with unattainable bonus structures. Same with keeping DP on the NHL roster. It was ALL driven by Wang to spend as little as possible. If Snow wants to keep his job, then he must obey orders.

Nino was only on the team bc of his ELC - that's it. Was he used incorrectly? Yes, he was. Nino felt he 'deserved' to be higher on the lineup, the Isles felt otherwise. Eitherway, this is VERY common with young players. It's just that Nino didn't have the mental fortitude to handle it.

Don't care who the Isles could have picked. They also could have picked Filatov - which 98% of this board wanted and thought was the next Bure...Just imagine that one...

Filatov and Nino were in separate drafts.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Filatov and Nino were in separate drafts.

I missed a segway there. Yes, I know that. Rather, the point was that people here tend to state Snow drafted the wrong guy re Nino instead of 5 other supposed 'better' players behind him.

In another draft, Filatov was allegedly the better player and the Isles passed on him. Traded down, etc. Outrage ensued because the Isles missed the next Bure...

You win some, lose some.

 

[MuckOG]

Fans are bitter because we "only" got Clutterbuck and a 3rd back. Newsflash: Clutterbuck is a better player than Nino and I don't see why Minnesota fans aren't upset why they "only" got Nino back for Clutterbuck, who had 4 straight seasons of 10+ goals (58 in total) PLUS he skated hard, hit hard, contributed much more than offense!

Let me jump in here with the perspective of the Wild fans.

First, Clutterbuck was not going to be re-signed by the Wild. I don't believe there were any discussions to do so. Not because he didn't want to come back (he did), but the Wild didn't want him back. So anything we can get for a player that wasn't coming back is a plus.

Second, Clutterbuck will never be anything more than a 3rd or 4th line agitator. He can never be counted on to provide any offense outside of the occasional empty netter at the end of the game. I realize he has a history with JT, but that was in junior, and it was a lifetime ago. Apples and Oranges.

With Clutterbuck, what you see is what you get: A high energy player that finishes his checks (although he seems to be doing less and less of that these days). He's a great teammate, good in the community and can sport a great mustache. But don't look for him to contribute much of anything on the ice anymore.

Nino may or may not turn out to be a great player. But for the Wild to get a player with his potential AND get Matt Cooke for the same money that Clutterbuck was looking for (and there is no question that Cooke is a better player than Clutterbuck), I'd say most Wild fans would agree with me that this is a trade you make any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Peace.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Let me jump in here with the perspective of the Wild fans.

First, Clutterbuck was not going to be re-signed by the Wild. I don't believe there were any discussions to do so. Not because he didn't want to come back (he did), but the Wild didn't want him back. So anything we can get for a player that wasn't coming back is a plus.

Second, Clutterbuck will never be anything more than a 3rd or 4th line agitator. He can never be counted on to provide any offense outside of the occasional empty netter at the end of the game. I realize he has a history with JT, but that was in junior, and it was a lifetime ago. Apples and Oranges.

With Clutterbuck, what you see is what you get: A high energy player that finishes his checks (although he seems to be doing less and less of that these days). He's a great teammate, good in the community and can sport a great mustache. But don't look for him to contribute much of anything on the ice anymore.

Nino may or may not turn out to be a great player. But for the Wild to get a player with his potential AND get Matt Cooke for the same money that Clutterbuck was looking for (and there is no question that Cooke is a better player than Clutterbuck), I'd say most Wild fans would agree with me that this is a trade you day any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Peace.

Right. We heard from Minn fans again and again. Nobody here cares.

 

[Darth Milbury]

I missed a segway there. Yes, I know that. Rather, the point was that people here tend to state Snow drafted the wrong guy re Nino instead of 5 other supposed 'better' players behind him.

In another draft, Filatov was allegedly the better player and the Isles passed on him. Traded down, etc. Outrage ensued because the Isles missed the next Bure...

You win some, lose some.

To me, the issue of who they should have drafted is less relevant than the way the player's development was botched afterward.

And, I know it just a few months after the trade, but I'd love to be able to talk about CC and his role on the Island without the constant hand wringing about Nino (not taking a shot at you) or the unwelcome gloating by Minn fans.

CC is an interesting guy and I'm not more convinced then ever that he does have a role to play. I still would love to see a regular "bash brothers" line with Martin, Nelson, and CC.

 

[Renbarg]

Let me jump in here with the perspective of the Wild fans.

First, Clutterbuck was not going to be re-signed by the Wild. I don't believe there were any discussions to do so. Not because he didn't want to come back (he did), but the Wild didn't want him back. So anything we can get for a player that wasn't coming back is a plus.

Second, Clutterbuck will never be anything more than a 3rd or 4th line agitator. He can never be counted on to provide any offense outside of the occasional empty netter at the end of the game. I realize he has a history with JT, but that was in junior, and it was a lifetime ago. Apples and Oranges.

With Clutterbuck, what you see is what you get: A high energy player that finishes his checks (although he seems to be doing less and less of that these days). He's a great teammate, good in the community and can sport a great mustache. But don't look for him to contribute much of anything on the ice anymore.

Nino may or may not turn out to be a great player. But for the Wild to get a player with his potential AND get Matt Cooke for the same money that Clutterbuck was looking for (and there is no question that Cooke is a better player than Clutterbuck), I'd say most Wild fans would agree with me that this is a trade you make any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Peace.

I think we as Isles fans are very familiar with Cooke. He's a nice little player, but he is essentially what Clutterbuck is just 10 years older. There is no doubt that Clutterbuck has a better shot. Cooke can skate better and PK though, and is better in front of the net. I'd have Cooke over Clutterbuck over for the next 2 years or so, but after that its probably Clutterbuck.

We're not expecting Clutterbuck to pop in 20. He's going to score 10ish and play the 3rd line, giving us great depth.

 

[redbull]

To me, the issue of who they should have drafted is less relevant than the way the player's development was botched afterward.

hell-yes. And even there it's risky. But I cannot fathom the thinking on forcing some players into the NHL when they are simply overmatched. Bailey and Nino the two that stood out the most.

Even a RIPE Donovan and Nelson are hardly the players they'll be in a year or two. It takes what it takes but why waste the years and take a chance at ruining the confidence? I don't see the upside (except for ELC cap hit)

I remember saying last year that I would not expect Donovan to have a first season as effective as Hickey was last year. Because it's his first taste of the NHL. Reinhart and Pulock will likely NOT BE great players next year, assuming they BOTH make the Islanders out of camp.

AHL is good hockey. The concept of being a really good AHL player FIRST, should not be so foreign to teams or to fans.

Some can skip grades and still do well, like Doogie Howser. Most kids, need to go through the process.

And, I know it just a few months after the trade, but I'd love to be able to talk about CC and his role on the Island without the constant hand wringing about Nino (not taking a shot at you) or the unwelcome gloating by Minn fans.

CC is an interesting guy and I'm not more convinced then ever that he does have a role to play. I still would love to see a regular "bash brothers" line with Martin, Nelson, and CC.

well said. I also like the idea of Martin - Nelson - Clutterbuck though I'd like to spread that bashing around more. If all the Isles lines had some physical element, the team would be FAR BETTER. I remember Bossy, maybe Bourne, Tomas Jonsson and Persson and everyone else who simply would not lose a puck battle along the boards. That was the best team I've ever seen play.

Let me jump in here with the perspective of the Wild fans.

First, Clutterbuck was not going to be re-signed by the Wild. I don't believe there were any discussions to do so. Not because he didn't want to come back (he did), but the Wild didn't want him back. So anything we can get for a player that wasn't coming back is a plus.

Second, Clutterbuck will never be anything more than a 3rd or 4th line agitator. He can never be counted on to provide any offense outside of the occasional empty netter at the end of the game. I realize he has a history with JT, but that was in junior, and it was a lifetime ago. Apples and Oranges.

With Clutterbuck, what you see is what you get: A high energy player that finishes his checks (although he seems to be doing less and less of that these days). He's a great teammate, good in the community and can sport a great mustache. But don't look for him to contribute much of anything on the ice anymore.

Nino may or may not turn out to be a great player. But for the Wild to get a player with his potential AND get Matt Cooke for the same money that Clutterbuck was looking for (and there is no question that Cooke is a better player than Clutterbuck), I'd say most Wild fans would agree with me that this is a trade you make any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Peace.

agree with all this.

and for the Islanders, Clutterbuck addresses a team need and Nino's contribution, whatever it may have been, is better served by Brock Nelson (or Ryan Strome)

Both teams can "win" the trade.

I used to think Nino had serious holes in his game. At 19, he was simply awful in all aspects of the game and showed ZERO offensive ability. That was concerning. Then, although he had good offensive numbers in the AHL at 20, he was NOT the best player on that team either, not even close. Another red flag.

To then demand a trade, after the lockout, was misguided and rude. He'd earned NOTHING based on his play.

So I think Clutterbuck + 3rd, by that time, was more than "fair market value" for Niederreiter. Certainly more than what Filatov yielded, Peter Mueller.

I think there's a higher chance that Nino NEVER scores 19 goals, what Cluttebuck has already scored, unless it's in the KHL.

Maybe he puts it together and becomes a solid NHLer....maybe not.

If I were an opposing GM, I wouldn't give up much for Niederreiter. Why? Would you pay high for Magnus Pajaarvi today? he dwarfs Nino statistically.

He's the shiny new toy in Minny so you'll cheer for him, and that's great. We did the same for Grabner, Schremp, Tambellini - some work, some don't.

Between Granlund, Nino, Zucker and Coyle - maybe 1 or 2 become solid NHLers. Minny's a good team in spite of Nino.

 

[Darth Milbury]

hell-yes. And even there it's risky. But I cannot fathom the thinking on forcing some players into the NHL when they are simply overmatched. Bailey and Nino the two that stood out the most.

Even a RIPE Donovan and Nelson are hardly the players they'll be in a year or two. It takes what it takes but why waste the years and take a chance at ruining the confidence? I don't see the upside (except for ELC cap hit)

I remember saying last year that I would not expect Donovan to have a first season as effective as Hickey was last year. Because it's his first taste of the NHL. Reinhart and Pulock will likely NOT BE great players next year, assuming they BOTH make the Islanders out of camp.

AHL is good hockey. The concept of being a really good AHL player FIRST, should not be so foreign to teams or to fans.

Some can skip grades and still do well, like Doogie Howser. Most kids, need to go through the process.


.

Quote of the freakin' week. I soooooo agree.

 

[jdr016]

He's looked good the past few games, with last night being the best. Basically, a smaller Matt Martin, but with more speed and better hands.