Speculation: Clownshoes league confirmed. Leaked emails etc.

[BoldNewLettuce]

Not sure if people are really interested in this but since I like to constantly criticize the league for being a listless squad of cronies I was surprised to find out there is now evidence out there to support this.

The leaked emails at the very least show how inept the league is at dealing with its membership and in defining a consistent and clear path/product for the teams and their fans.


http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2016/3/30/11332912/nhl-email-leak-fighting-head-hits-concussions-shanahan-bettman-campbell

Click to read more...

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Thanks for this. Bettman is right IMO, the NHLPA would also have to be on board for change. That or teams can simply stop employing these types of players which seems to be the case in the last year or two.

 

[belair]

So Bettman likened the enforcer role to the steriod-users in baseball and he didn't point out how wrong they were to protect them in the log run?

The union will push back regardless. These guys are going to want compensation if you're eliminating their livelihood. But we're at a point where there's no choice. Cut it at the head or continue letting these injuries happen and let the CTE cases continue building until they decide broadside the league with one mother of a lawsuit.

 

[joestevens29]

So Bettman likened the enforcer role to the steriod-users in baseball and he didn't point out how wrong they were to protect them in the log run?

The union will push back regardless. These guys are going to want compensation if you're eliminating their livelihood. But we're at a point where there's no choice. Cut it at the head or continue letting these injuries happen and let the CTE cases continue building until they decide broadside the league with one mother of a lawsuit.

The misleading thing is these emails are 5 years old in some cases I believe what was leaked was from 2008, so it's really hard to say that the league still has the same way of thinking. Just looking at it, how many pure goons are really employed nowadays anyway? So things have chagned since some of the emails

 

[thadd]

The misleading thing is these emails are 5 years old in some cases I believe what was leaked was from 2008, so it's really hard to say that the league still has the same way of thinking. Just looking at it, how many pure goons are really employed nowadays anyway? So things have chagned since some of the emails

I'd guess less than 10.
Can you even count Gazdic? He's not even a full timer anymore.

Since these emails were written the NHL has obviously quietly moved the enforcers out of the game.

I think it's hilarious how these guys talk about issues as important as this on their email. They knew that the days of law suits were coming and leaving a path of evidence that links them to the NHL's knowledge of what is happening to these players... it's just suicide for the league unless they are up for forking out a ton of money and giving it to all of these players who have suffered.

 

[joestevens29]

I'd guess less than 10.
Can you even count Gazdic? He's not even a full timer anymore.

Since these emails were written the NHL has obviously quietly moved the enforcers out of the game.

I think it's hilarious how these guys talk about issues as important as this on their email. They knew that the days of law suits were coming and leaving a path of evidence that links them to the NHL's knowledge of what is happening to these players... it's just suicide for the league unless they are up for forking out a ton of money and giving it to all of these players who have suffered.

Even those 10, how many are everyday guys? The other thing is at least these goons as of late aren't the 6'5 250lbs. A lot of them can do some minor things as well. Not like Mac and Boogard who really just skating around looking for a fight.

As for the emails, they were awhile back. A lot of people don't realize how easy it is to recover them. I'm sure for the past little while a lot of talks don't happen unless it's in person.

 

[joestevens29]

My opinion still is that anyone that has been playing the past 10-15 years shouldn't get any compensation. If you don't know what a concussion can do by now then I wonder if you realize that you need to flush a toilet when you are done.

The bottom line is you are getting a damn good pay and you are playing the fastest game in the world. You have a risk and if you don't like the risk then quit. Do what you can to protect the players, but the PA and the league to get past the past sooner rather than later and move forward.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Every job faces redundancies based on market conditions, and technological advances.

As heartless as it sounds; Tough luck.


If you want to be a diesel automobile manufacturer on the precipice of the electric car revolution, don't expect a handout when the market crashes.

The manufacturers of Blackberry got nothing for getting beaten by Android and Iphones.

Somewhere a VCR manufacturer is crying for the world to come back.

Netflix is Killing cable subscriptions. Tough luck.. provide us with a better product.



Sorry, but fighting should have been eliminated over a decade ago, and anyone trying to ply their trade as an enforcer today shouldn't be compensated at all. Learn to play hockey.

 

[joestevens29]

Every job faces redundancies based on market conditions, and technological advances.

As heartless as it sounds; Tough luck.


The manufacturers of Blackberry got nothing for getting beaten by Android and Iphones?

If you want to be a diesel automobile manufacturer on the precipice of the electric car revolution, don't expect a handout when the market crashes.


Sorry fighting should have been eliminated over a decade ago, and anyone trying to ply their trade as an enforcer today shouldn't be compensated at all. Learn to play hockey.

It's not just about fighting though. Fighting is a very minimal part of the concussion issue. Clean hits can cause concussions and to me it's a part of the game. You don't like it then retire like the guy from the 49ers(?) did last year. He was afraid of what he learned on concussions and just quit. Paid back part of his signing bonus as well.

 

[Replacement*]

I'd guess less than 10.
Can you even count Gazdic? He's not even a full timer anymore.

Since these emails were written the NHL has obviously quietly moved the enforcers out of the game.

I think it's hilarious how these guys talk about issues as important as this on their email. They knew that the days of law suits were coming and leaving a path of evidence that links them to the NHL's knowledge of what is happening to these players... it's just suicide for the league unless they are up for forking out a ton of money and giving it to all of these players who have suffered.

Campbell, an NHL high priced executive and former player with considerable assets is slandering individuals outside the org in leaked emails. I'll leave it at that as to the foresight of this league and those running it. ironic that Campbell was head of NHL disciplinary review for awhile. So comforting to know his "that guys an idiot" monologue was "on it".

Good for Shanahan, the only one that comes out of this unscathed. Albeit he wasn't good in his role either.

 

[Replacement*]

Phasing out fighters? Its pretty much already occurred. But what should also occur is any player still caught fighting, in any game, or any instance of disciplinary review should get a considerable fine and the team employing them should be fined 10times the amount for each infraction and incrementing in severity.

The only way to really get responsibility is to impact the top, and bottom line. Take the proceeds of such fines to help the individuals and families suffering from related effects. I'm not talking small fines btw.

The NHL would be justified in doing this if the Owners, Managers, NHLPA are not on board. The NHL is foremost the party under scrutiny and subject to legal action. They can use that as argument to further the sanctions that they apply. Actually they should have started to do this in earnest a decade ago.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I feel like the PA would rather keep fighters around anyway. It doesn't do much for the lawsuits and you wonder if these players will keep coming up through junior, but do you really want cheapshots running the show?

I feel like that is what's happening now. Players are coached not to fight for the most part because of the instigator.

The thing I liked about fighting, as obnoxious as it can be, is it kept players honest and you didn't need good officiating to call out the dirty plays.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Also why is Colin Campbell seeking approval from Bob MacKenzie?

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

I feel like the PA would rather keep fighters around anyway. It doesn't do much for the lawsuits and you wonder if these players will keep coming up through junior, but do you really want cheapshots running the show?

I feel like that is what's happening now. Players are coached not to fight for the most part because of the instigator.

The thing I liked about fighting, as obnoxious as it can be, is it kept players honest and you didn't need good officiating to call out the dirty plays.

See this is what scares me about removing fighting. The reffing has been so bad that there will be no consequences for a dirty play outside of revenge in an equally dirty way. As risky as fighting is, I can't see it being much better with a bunch of frustrated meat heads skating around with weapons policing their own game where they can't even square up with the guy who's making those plays.

If they want to remove fighting, the reffing is going to need to come up 10 fold. Even then, until the little rats are out, I can't see fighting being completely eliminated.

 

[sOILing McSelf]

I'm still torn on where to side with all of this. There's been many stories from the media about these released emails, but until you read each and every one do you really know the whole story? And even if you were to read all of them who knows what conversations took place over the phone or in person?

Also emails are very much like text messages, tone is very hard to determine, especially from an outsiders perspective. I know I've sent many emails and texts that we misinterpreted because the recipient read it in a different tone than I intended.

Also, every one of the media stories on these emails have jumped over years to establish their point of view. Take the linked story for example. It included emails from 2007, emails to Bob Mac in 2008, emails from 2011, 2012, 2013, a news story from 2012.

To put it in HF terms, they are cherry picking stats from 7 years (but not including 2009 and 2010) to make their point that the NHL dropped the ball.

As for Bettman's fear about the NHLPA protecting the enforcer role and the head of the NHLPA protecting steroid users, we have to remember that email was sent in Sept 2011, around one year after Fehr became the head of the NHLPA. I'm wondering if Bettman hadn't figured out Fehr's priorities as I'm sure Fehr was playing his cards close to his chest heading into the last year of the CBA.

I'm not siding with the NHL here, but I'm not ready to form a lynch mob on them either. Like I said, there is a lot of information out there that I haven't read and even more that hasn't been released. Unlike media outlets, whos job is to generate clicks on their articles, I'm not willing to cherry pick which emails to read and which ones to ignore.

 

[Young Lions*]

See this is what scares me about removing fighting. The reffing has been so bad that there will be no consequences for a dirty play outside of revenge in an equally dirty way. As risky as fighting is, I can't see it being much better with a bunch of frustrated meat heads skating around with weapons policing their own game where they can't even square up with the guy who's making those plays.

If they want to remove fighting, the reffing is going to need to come up 10 fold. Even then, until the little rats are out, I can't see fighting being completely eliminated.

The rats don't fight tho.

 

[joestevens29]

Also why is Colin Campbell seeking approval from Bob MacKenzie?

I remember when Campbell was running the show he talked about how he'd walk around the office asking people for their opinions. I'm sure he went to guys like McKenzie to see what they thought from time to time as they were very well respected.