Cleveland Monsters Thread VII (All Affiliate talk here)

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pled

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Also its just the start of the season so the old guy will get tired and the young will take over I wouldn't worry too much at this point. Robinson and Vigneault are the only really noticeable good and bad development I'd say so far.
 
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major major

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I don't follow our prospects nearly close enough to know a damned thing, apparently. I surely didn't see some gulf opening up between Robinson and Vigneault.
 

pled

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Other interesting thing about Robinson is that he has played both wing side already. Thats always a good thing.
 

Jackets Woodchuck

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Tony Brown just did his "Road Report" game preview on the Monsters Facebook page and tonight's lines are the ones I saw in practice.

My depth chart in post #648 is correct in terms of order of forward lines. I made one mistake on the defensive pairs, Cross-Siebenaler is the top defensive line.
 

Jackets Woodchuck

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I will be busy tonight. The most I might be able to provide in the way of updates would be during the third period.
 

pled

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yeah same line as he said

Bittner-Dalpe(A)-Robinson
Milano-Broadhurst-Gerbe(C)
Abramov-MacInnis-Letestu(A)
Thurkauf-Vigneault-Stenlund

Cross-Siebenaler
Carlsson-Wade
Simpson-Collins

Berube in the net

the monster a setting the pace in the first but still no goal
 

pled

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Berube allowed to fast goal at the end of the first kinda sealed that. 4-1 with few minutes left.
Milano scored.
 

Maylo

It never happened.
May 20, 2017
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5:1 game over.
What is it 13 goals in 2 games allowed? Nice.
 

thebus88

19/20 Columbus Blue Jackets: "It Is What It Is"
Sep 27, 2017
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It would be odd if winning was being put ahead of development since everybody making on-ice decisions is drawing a paycheck from the Blue Jackets.

Not saying it isn't happening, only that it would not make sense.


Also, why is "winning" seen as essentially the opposite of "development", now? Even though we did have more younger guys in more important roles just a few years ago, winning (championship or not) in the AHL was seen as a very good thing for the organization and the young players on the team, essentially regardless of role. Now, its a mistake? You also cant just ignore the QUALITY of these young guys in comparison to some of the young guys in 15/16 and also in comparison to the "vets" in the AHL right now.

All this "development" talk in the AHL mirrors the Milano(mainly)/Bjorkstrand talk in regards to Torts and the NHL. Its really hard to justify giving players minutes they don't deserve/haven't earned and most importantly cant handle. Especially when you have other players who have earned it and have handled the minutes. It wouldn't do any good for some of these younger guys to continuously get thrown out in TOO tough of situations, get massively outplayed for 45 minutes and lose every other game 5-2. Even if a couple "blue (or green) chippers" pot a couple points each game.

Then we should really look at the term or concept of "development" itself. Its takes an EXTREMELY high level of hockey player to become an "everyday" or "impact" player in the NHL. The #1 goal of an organizations AHL team should be to improve (or "develop") whatever young players they have in their organization in whatever way they see fit, while at the same time still having a group of 4 or so players (regardless of age or supposed potential) that are competent to be called up to the NHL team at any time depending on what type of "role" that's possibly been opened up. I don't know what to say about Bittner, good or bad, could be our unexpected/forgotten wildcard. but all these other guys (to me anyway) at the top of CLE's 'team stats' were almost always going to be the 1st call ups. Broadhurst and Gerbe are probably still better NHL options than Stenlund and Abramov.

But, the 2 guys I think should be in the NHL now, and really since training camp are Robinson and Dalpe. I know he's had a couple big games recently, but I'm not sure what more Dalpe needs to do before he gets a look in the NHL. The team hasn't had issues scoring but Dalpe in for Wennberg for a game or 2 could possibly open some eyes or at the least wake somebody up and give Dalpe a deserved paycheck. Robinson should have been here since day 1, over anybody else they've had on the 4th line including Milano. While Hannikainen hasn't looked bad recently, he still has severe limitation with his offensive game. I believe Sedlak brings more than him with his stronger physical game, center/faceoff ability, and imo he's better offensively. I believe Robinson is better than Sedlak in every way other than faceoffs. And I really think Bjorkstrand should be in no matter what. Even if its 'Milano minutes' with PP time.

With Dubinsky being back to a certain level, Sedlak showing the same as he has the last 2 or so years, and Dalpe providing some "eye opening" AHL numbers with Stenlund in the wings, the Nash contract (especially 3 years) seems a bit unnecessary. However, an injury or 2 at the C position would change things.
 
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Jackets Woodchuck

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Also, why is "winning" seen as essentially the opposite of "development", now? Even though we did have more younger guys in more important roles just a few years ago, winning (championship or not) in the AHL was seen as a very good thing for the organization and the young players on the team, essentially regardless of role. Now, its a mistake? You also cant just ignore the QUALITY of these young guys in comparison to some of the young guys in 15/16 and also in comparison to the "vets" in the AHL right now.

All this "development" talk in the AHL mirrors the Milano(mainly)/Bjorkstrand talk in regards to Torts and the NHL. Its really hard to justify giving players minutes they don't deserve/haven't earned and most importantly cant handle. Especially when you have other players who have earned it and have handled the minutes. It wouldn't do any good for some of these younger guys to continuously get thrown out in TOO tough of situations, get massively outplayed for 45 minutes and lose every other game 5-2. Even if a couple "blue (or green) chippers" pot a couple points each game.

Then we should really look at the term or concept of "development" itself. Its takes an EXTREMELY high level of hockey player to become an "everyday" or "impact" player in the NHL. The #1 goal of an organizations AHL team should be to improve (or "develop") whatever young players they have in their organization in whatever way they see fit, while at the same time still having a group of 4 or so players (regardless of age or supposed potential) that are competent to be called up to the NHL team at any time depending on what type of "role" that's possibly been opened up. I don't know what to say about Bittner, good or bad, could be our unexpected/forgotten wildcard. but all these other guys (to me anyway) at the top of CLE's 'team stats' were almost always going to be the 1st call ups. Broadhurst and Gerbe are probably still better NHL options than Stenlund and Abramov.

But, the 2 guys I think should be in the NHL now, and really since training camp are Robinson and Dalpe. I know he's had a couple big games recently, but I'm not sure what more Dalpe needs to do before he gets a look in the NHL. The team hasn't had issues scoring but Dalpe in for Wennberg for a game or 2 could possibly open some eyes or at the least wake somebody up and give Dalpe a deserved paycheck. Robinson should have been here since day 1, over anybody else they've had on the 4th line including Milano. While Hannikainen hasn't looked bad recently, he still has severe limitation with his offensive game. I believe Sedlak brings more than him with his stronger physical game, center/faceoff ability, and imo he's better offensively. I believe Robinson is better than Sedlak in every way other than faceoffs. And I really think Bjorkstrand should be in no matter what. Even if its 'Milano minutes' with PP time.

With Dubinsky being back to a certain level, Sedlak showing the same as he has the last 2 or so years, and Dalpe providing some "eye opening" AHL numbers with Stenlund in the wings, the Nash contract (especially 3 years) seems a bit unnecessary. However, an injury or 2 at the C position would change things.

I was thinking of posting something along these lines but couldn't come up with the words. You said it better than I ever could.
 

cslebn

80 forever
Feb 15, 2012
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Also, why is "winning" seen as essentially the opposite of "development", now? Even though we did have more younger guys in more important roles just a few years ago, winning (championship or not) in the AHL was seen as a very good thing for the organization and the young players on the team, essentially regardless of role. Now, its a mistake? You also cant just ignore the QUALITY of these young guys in comparison to some of the young guys in 15/16 and also in comparison to the "vets" in the AHL right now.

All this "development" talk in the AHL mirrors the Milano(mainly)/Bjorkstrand talk in regards to Torts and the NHL. Its really hard to justify giving players minutes they don't deserve/haven't earned and most importantly cant handle. Especially when you have other players who have earned it and have handled the minutes. It wouldn't do any good for some of these younger guys to continuously get thrown out in TOO tough of situations, get massively outplayed for 45 minutes and lose every other game 5-2. Even if a couple "blue (or green) chippers" pot a couple points each game.

Then we should really look at the term or concept of "development" itself. Its takes an EXTREMELY high level of hockey player to become an "everyday" or "impact" player in the NHL. The #1 goal of an organizations AHL team should be to improve (or "develop") whatever young players they have in their organization in whatever way they see fit, while at the same time still having a group of 4 or so players (regardless of age or supposed potential) that are competent to be called up to the NHL team at any time depending on what type of "role" that's possibly been opened up. I don't know what to say about Bittner, good or bad, could be our unexpected/forgotten wildcard. but all these other guys (to me anyway) at the top of CLE's 'team stats' were almost always going to be the 1st call ups. Broadhurst and Gerbe are probably still better NHL options than Stenlund and Abramov.

But, the 2 guys I think should be in the NHL now, and really since training camp are Robinson and Dalpe. I know he's had a couple big games recently, but I'm not sure what more Dalpe needs to do before he gets a look in the NHL. The team hasn't had issues scoring but Dalpe in for Wennberg for a game or 2 could possibly open some eyes or at the least wake somebody up and give Dalpe a deserved paycheck. Robinson should have been here since day 1, over anybody else they've had on the 4th line including Milano. While Hannikainen hasn't looked bad recently, he still has severe limitation with his offensive game. I believe Sedlak brings more than him with his stronger physical game, center/faceoff ability, and imo he's better offensively. I believe Robinson is better than Sedlak in every way other than faceoffs. And I really think Bjorkstrand should be in no matter what. Even if its 'Milano minutes' with PP time.

With Dubinsky being back to a certain level, Sedlak showing the same as he has the last 2 or so years, and Dalpe providing some "eye opening" AHL numbers with Stenlund in the wings, the Nash contract (especially 3 years) seems a bit unnecessary. However, an injury or 2 at the C position would change things.


I won't disagree with the idea that development can occur different ways. I suspect the posters you're targeting are looking at the AHL as the place where you can let young players fail or succeed by dumping them into roles. Your point appears to be let them earn it slowly. That's fair.
There's always the argument that you don't know what you have until you have it (like you said the same argument for Torts to give Bjork and Milano more ice time).

I will say, the Calder team had a lot more guys that could be considered developmental in important roles (Forsberg/Korpi, Werenski, Bjork, Sedlak, etc). That is very different than Dalpe and co seemingly leading the charge right now. Madden should reward these guys for playing well, the question just becomes what is better for the players development (and who).

I agree Robinson should in the NHL. I've thought so since the summer. Guys like Dalpe and Gerbe have had chances at the NHL and shown they don't have what it takes more than being call-ups. Dalpe literally needs a league between the NHL and AHL.
 

pled

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Sep 7, 2009
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Robinson-Dalpe(A)-Bittner
Milano-MacInnis-Letestu(A)
Abramov-Broadhurst-Gerbe(C)
Stenlund-Thurkauf-Sherwood

Cross-Carlsson
Simpson-Wade
Simpson-Collins

Kiv

The team play is definitely not improving upon last 3 games
 
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Monstershockey

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This team has no clue how to play defense. Maybe one goal was on Kivleniks but it really was puck luck for Laval. They beat him but it hit the post, bounced off Kivleniks and in. The other goals were all on the defense. They were hanging him out to dry. Milano scored but was on the ice for 2 Laval goals. I really don't see how he was a first round pick. Dalpe is visibly frustrated with the last couple losses. 31 shots on goal but only a couple tested the goalie. This team seemed uninspired from the start and definitely wasn't ready to play. I was giving Madden the benefit of the doubt, but it really seems like the team doesn't listen or care what he has to say.
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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Eric Robinson after tonight’s game:

7 goals.
6 assists.
13 points.
+7.
In 15 AHL games.

Haven't watched any games but the statline is impressive. Obviously should be first call up in case of injury, and should be here full time potentially when Panarin gets traded. Hopefully he keeps it going, because he's showing a lot more offensive potential than I thought he had.
 

pled

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Sep 7, 2009
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Haven't watched any games but the statline is impressive. Obviously should be first call up in case of injury, and should be here full time potentially when Panarin gets traded. Hopefully he keeps it going, because he's showing a lot more offensive potential than I thought he had.
I would love to see Stenlund too honestly he just has that magic behind him but Robinson seem like a more hard working guy that would be ok playing 10 min on a 4thl ine. probably better than milano was.
 

Theo Von

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Nov 15, 2013
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Haven't watched any games but the statline is impressive. Obviously should be first call up in case of injury, and should be here full time potentially when Panarin gets traded. Hopefully he keeps it going, because he's showing a lot more offensive potential than I thought he had.

Yup. Remember the Nashville game at the end of last season (his debut)? He didn’t look place at all. If I remember correctly Torts gave him prime playing time too.
 

Monstershockey

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Stenlund has been pretty mediocre so far. McInnis is playing a little better right now, at least he is more noticeable on the ice. I think McInnis even gets a little more ice time. Bittner is the one guy who so far has shown a lot of improvement since he has been here. He is playing very well right now, leads the team with +9 rating and has 11 points, 2 behind Robinson. It is still early so it will be interesting how he plays when other teams adjust to him. Better effort with the 4-2 win last night, but this team has serious problems with getting the puck out of their defensive zone.
 

pled

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Stenlund has been pretty mediocre so far. McInnis is playing a little better right now, at least he is more noticeable on the ice. I think McInnis even gets a little more ice time.
McInnis get a lot of icetime and madden seem to hate stenlund,
 

major major

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When we're talking about Stenlund not getting ice time, what amount roughly do we mean? I'm not going to get worked up about a rookie playing 12 minutes a night, but under 10 is a problem.
 

CBJFan827

I hate you Brad Marchand
Jul 19, 2006
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When we're talking about Stenlund not getting ice time, what amount roughly do we mean? I'm not going to get worked up about a rookie playing 12 minutes a night, but under 10 is a problem.
It's hard to say because the AHL considers TOI a trade secret.
 
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