Cleveland MLB team chooses new name, the Guardians

[oknazevad]

Cleveland MLB team officially changes name to 'Guardians'

Apparently named after sculptures on a bridge right near the ballpark. Announced in a nifty video narrated by Tom Hanks.

Click to read more...

 

[Crede777]

Nice video, unoffensive name, but I don't like the double-G baseball logo.

 

[Pink Mist]

Inoffensive name at last, but surely they could have found something better than Guardians?

 

[PCSPounder]

Inoffensive name at last, but surely they could have found something better than Guardians?

Is it even the worst franchise name in Cleveland *coughBrownscough*?

In the nation of the Utah Jazz, Los Angeles Dodgers, teams named after socks, and the consequences leading to Washington Football Team, is it any wonder that MLS teams just name themselves Atlanta United and Austin FC? Never mind this pick.

The good names are gone unless you go really obscure.

 

[Pink Mist]

Is it even the worst franchise name in Cleveland *coughBrownscough*?

In the nation of the Utah Jazz, Los Angeles Dodgers, teams named after socks, and the consequences leading to Washington Football Team, is it any wonder that MLS teams just name themselves Atlanta United and Austin FC? Never mind this pick.

The good names are gone unless you go really obscure.

I don't even think they'd have to go obscure though. They already had a baseball team in Cleveland called the Spiders which I think is a better name than the Guardians and probably has better marketing potential (though I can see why they would want to divorce themselves from associating themselves with the Cleveland Spiders considering the Spiders' infamously bad record).

Guardians isn't the worst name, but it does feel a little uninspired.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Ripe for relocation.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I would have preferred recycling the name "Barons" from the city's former hockey teams.

There's always the Braves becoming the Thrashers though.

 

[KevFu]

Guardians isn't the worst name, but it does feel a little uninspired.

It's fine. It's one of those things where most team names are really redundant or stupid when they're announced, but after decades of use, they are just normalized/accepted.

The names of teams we have in sports all sound normal NOW, but if they hadn't existed our entire lives and got introduced for an expansion team, everyone would think they were terrible.

New baseball stadiums are the same thing. People don't think the park is "Team Enough" for the team that opens it. It just takes decades before people associate the new place with the team in the way they associate the Ivy with the Cubs and the Monster with Boston, etc.

 

[generalshepherd141]

So, for those of you dislike the Guardians name, I’d like to hear why you dislike it.

Similarly, for those of you prefer Spiders, is there a reason other than the fact that Cleveland once had a team with that name?

Personally, Spiders would never make my list because I despise recycling team names.

It sounds little league and is really vague.

 

[HisIceness]

Weird name is weird.

 

[berklon]

Awesome. Do the Blackhawks next.

 

[GindyDraws]

Is it even the worst franchise name in Cleveland *coughBrownscough*?

In the nation of the Utah Jazz, Los Angeles Dodgers, teams named after socks, and the consequences leading to Washington Football Team, is it any wonder that MLS teams just name themselves Atlanta United and Austin FC? Never mind this pick.

The good names are gone unless you go really obscure.

And on the opposite end, you end up with vomit-inducing names Brandiose come up for minor league baseball teams like "Rumble Ponies" (carousel horses), "Mighty Mussels" (alliteration fun? Miracle was a great name) and "Sea Unicorns" (just say "Narwhals", dangit).

Look... take it from someone who leans left-wing on politics; naming a team is going to be hard. You're either going to refer to something hyper regional that outsiders will need help explaining constantly, or it's going to be so generic that people will complain about how generic it is.

 

[PhillyWings]

So, for those of you dislike the Guardians name, I’d like to hear why you dislike it.

Similarly, for those of you prefer Spiders, is there a reason other than the fact that Cleveland once had a team with that name?

Personally, Spiders would never make my list because I despise recycling team names.

It just screams football team. Plus they changed the name for a vocal minority who won't be buying tickets and or merchandise anyway.

 

[berklon]

Plus they changed the name for a vocal minority who won't be buying tickets and or merchandise anyway.

So it's ok to offend people if it doesn't effect your bottom line?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

So it's ok to offend people if it doesn't effect your bottom line?

So we gonna change the name of the state of Indiana? Or Indianapolis?...

It literally means "Land of the Indians"

 

[daver]

So it's ok to offend people if it doesn't effect your bottom line?

Yes, people can show their displeasure by not supporting the team. It is a business.

 

[KevFu]

I think all the objections to the new name and the only argument in favor of keeping the old name show off just how freaking meaningless the actual name is and backs up my point from above:

No one really cares that Lakers and Dodgers are stupid names for teams in Los Angeles. There's no Lakes or Trolleys in LA.

What makes people attached to a nickname is simply that they HAD THAT TEAM for a long time. Guardians will be just fine once they've been the Guardians for a while. Had success as the Guardians for a while, have a guy retire who played his whole career as a Guardians legend. That kind of thing.

It's no different than when everyone opened new stadiums. CitiField opened and everyone said it's generic and "not Mets enough." No one says that about the stadium NOW, because it's been 15 years and the team played a World Series there, and threw a no-hitter there, and David Wright retired there, and Jacob deGrom has dominated baseball there, and Pete Alonso hit a ton of home runs there.

It just takes the mental association time to build up. Tampa Bay Rays sounded weird, and now hearing Tampa Bay Devil Rays sounds weird.

 

[KevFu]

Yes, people can show their displeasure by not supporting the team. It is a business.

1. But in Cleveland's case, it's pointless. And that's why they're changing it and Atlanta isn't changing theirs.

Their logo was blatantly offensive as a racist caricature they HAD TO CHANGE. The Block C was generic and lame. They HAD TO CHANGE their brand/image in some capacity with something to use after retiring Chief Wahoo.

If you HAVE TO change the image/brand to not use racist imagery, just finish the job of eliminating that negative aspect of your brand.

They could have made a non-offensive logo of a C wearing an authentic looking headdress, eliminating the racist caricature; but you don't get any bang for your buck out of that:
You have people who are going to hate change because it's a change from tradition (just like they have now)
You have people who are going to say the change was positive, but not enough on the "offensive nickname" front.

You can't avoid having the first group no matter what you do, but a total rebrand eliminates the second group. So just do a total rebrand and in the long run, you'll be fine.

The old timers who hate the new stuff will gradually diminish over time as they (a) get used to it, or (b) die off and are replaced by younger humans on the planet who don't know the difference. (Much like how Soccer has been accepted in the US when it was actively hated by a large population in the 90s).


2. The premise of your argument is that "People can show their displeasure by not supporting the team because it's a business?" The team made the business decision to not alienate potential customers with an offensive name. That's the right business decision.

 

[PCSPounder]

Since minor leagues were brought up…

The Spokane Indians still exist. To stay there…

1) Partnership with the Spokane tribe, which might include a financial interest or two.
2) There is a considerable visual display in the ballpark where concessions could otherwise be sold with a brief history of the tribe and the relationship with the club.
3) There’s a 3rd uniform that says Spokane in the tribal language but with baseball feel… and now I kind of want that one.

To me, that might have been an option in Cleveland… my question being whether there are substantial numbers of local native tribes or groups. Considering the number of reservations and communities out west vs in the east, that could be an issue.

 

[KevFu]

Since minor leagues were brought up…

The Spokane Indians still exist. To stay there…

1) Partnership with the Spokane tribe, which might include a financial interest or two.
2) There is a considerable visual display in the ballpark where concessions could otherwise be sold with a brief history of the tribe and the relationship with the club.
3) There’s a 3rd uniform that says Spokane in the tribal language but with baseball feel… and now I kind of want that one.

To me, that might have been an option in Cleveland… my question being whether there are substantial numbers of local native tribes or groups. Considering the number of reservations and communities out west vs in the east, that could be an issue.

For a while, I thought they would keep the nickname and go with a C logo wearing an authentic head dress like I mentioned above. So I tried to look up the tribe that inhabited the Cleveland area prior to European colonization, see if I could find a picture of their head dress and make a photoshop logo attempt.

And therein lies the problem.
1. The area was coveted for the same reason a city popped up there, so there were a number of tribes that held and lost the land.
2. Because of it's location and the geographic obstacles to access all the other areas of the land just discovered by Europeans, both the original tribes and the original Europeans to the region BOTH kept pushing West, and were replaced by groups migrating away from the people arriving on the East Coast after them.

So pretty much any answer to "Who's native to the Cleveland area" has been wiped out.


And of course, the link for the baseball team to their nickname is mostly fake. It's claimed they had a Tribal member on the team, and picked the name because of that link. But that guy played like 90 games for them like 12 years prior. They picked the name because THE BOSTON BRAVES had just won the last few years, and even then, pro sports was "copy-cat leagues."

 

[GindyDraws]

Since minor leagues were brought up…

The Spokane Indians still exist. To stay there…

1) Partnership with the Spokane tribe, which might include a financial interest or two.
2) There is a considerable visual display in the ballpark where concessions could otherwise be sold with a brief history of the tribe and the relationship with the club.
3) There’s a 3rd uniform that says Spokane in the tribal language but with baseball feel… and now I kind of want that one.

To me, that might have been an option in Cleveland… my question being whether there are substantial numbers of local native tribes or groups. Considering the number of reservations and communities out west vs in the east, that could be an issue.

There's also the Indianapolis Indians, who don't have any affiliation with any Native American tribe, but have done everything possible to make things as generic as possible, from the team logo being inspired by Miami tribe art to the team mascot being Rowdie the Bear, and even using an alternate logo on certain nights. To be fair, there is some attempt to consider a name change, but it appears right now, the organization is focused more on the current season and recouping lost revenue than they are with this detail. But, certainly, now there's got to be more pressure now to think about the topic.

 

[DoyleG]

Since minor leagues were brought up…
3) There’s a 3rd uniform that says Spokane in the tribal language but with baseball feel… and now I kind of want that one.

Spokane Indians Adult Replica Home Jersey

Shut up and buy it.

 

[GindyDraws]

So we gonna change the name of the state of Indiana? Or Indianapolis?...

It literally means "Land of the Indians"

The origin of the name "Indiana" can be traced back way before Indiana itself came to be, as the Iroquois nations plotted several thousand acres of land in what was going to be called "Vandalia", to which they named said plot, which sits in present-day West Virginia, "Indiana", and gave it to a group called "the Indiana Land Company" in 1776. The United States denied the claim of this company's ownership of this land in 1798, but had what they thought was a snazzy name for a territory filled with Native Americans, so in 1800, renamed the Northwest Territory "the Indiana Territory".

Besides, there's a stark difference between renaming a city or a state and a freaking sports team. Lord, the whataboutism is strong.

 

[GindyDraws]

So it's ok to offend people if it doesn't effect your bottom line?

Remember; it's okay when people you like do it, but it's not okay when people you hate do it.

That's tribalism logic.

 

[daver]

Besides, there's a stark difference between renaming a city or a state and a freaking sports team. Lord, the whataboutism is strong.

So your response to a call for a city/state rename will be what then? It's OK to offend people because.......

Part of the pushback on changing "offensive names" or tearing down statues is that there is no point at which the activists will say "OK, now everything is non-offensive".