Helene St. James Cleary could be re-signed, but not play

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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I would do that for 950k. I would do a lot of worse things for 950k.

Sure. But how about if you had already made 21+ million over your career? Not sure about you, but I could live off that just fine.
 
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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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professional athletes can't stop. they have huge drive (and ego). that's what made cleary an effective player. and that's what still keeping him going.

Lidstrom and Rafalski stopped. And as way better players. That's just a generalization.
 

ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
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Sure. But how about if you had already made 21+ million over your career? Not sure about you, but I could live off that just fine.

Cleary isn't obligated to stop playing if he is being offered a contract each year, though. 21 million is a lot, but when you factor in taxes, agent fees, and the lifestyle, you arent making quite that much.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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Cleary isn't obligated to stop playing if he is being offered a contract each year, though. 21 million is a lot, but when you factor in taxes, agent fees, and the lifestyle, you arent making quite that much.

It's easily enough to live on more than comfortably. But obviously he can and will do whatever he wants. Wings can't say no to him.

I think he is going to go the Maltby route.
 

hot dog

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Mar 20, 2013
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Lidstrom and Rafalski stopped. And as way better players. That's just a generalization.

Rafalski retired after his age 37 and Lids his 41 year old season... Cleary just finished 36. Obviously he hasn't held up but they aren't necessarily comparables...

I think Cleary would be a great AHL mentor the more I consider it. He has really done it all in his career. Huge prospect dominating juniors, disappointing start to a career, almost out of the league, makes the Wings on a camp tryout and becomes a key piece to a Cup winning team. He might be three years past his expiration date but I think there's value in having a character guy like that in the locker room of a minor league team. Could really help junior guys transition to the pros.

If he is willing to stay with the Griffs and doesn't even come close to a callup, I'll welcome him back. He'd basically be an assistant coach, I'm guessing.
 

chances14

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Jan 7, 2010
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Lidstrom and Rafalski stopped. And as way better players. That's just a generalization.

those are exceptions to the rule.

most pro athletes do not retire until they are forced to either by injury or if no team offers them a contract they like

FYI rafalski only stopped because of injury

i think it's foolish to expect cleary to retire when he clearly still has the drive to play and obviously doesn't mind taking paycut

this 100% on holland
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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Rafalski retired after his age 37 and Lids his 41 year old season... Cleary just finished 36. Obviously he hasn't held up but they aren't necessarily comparables...

Rafalski was 37, and Cleary will be 37 in December, so yeah I'd say it's pretty comparable. And my point was that not all guys play for as long as possible. Lidstrom and Rafalski clearly could have kept playing if they desired.

those are exceptions to the rule.

most pro athletes do not retire until they are forced to either by injury or if no team offers them a contract they like

No, I think this is the exception to the rule. Most long time NHL'ers don't accept ending their career in the AHL. And by the same token, most long time Wings haven't accepted ending their career in Grand Rapids.

Most guys would rather retire if it came to that.

FYI rafalski only stopped because of injury

Yeah, Rafalski's knees were shot. Guess who else's knees are shot? Cleary's.

this 100% on holland

Well I agree with you there.
 

ProbertKocur

Registered User
Feb 3, 2014
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Rafalski was 37, and Cleary will be 37 in December, so yeah I'd say it's pretty comparable. And my point was that not all guys play for as long as possible. Lidstrom and Rafalski clearly could have kept playing if they desired.



No, I think this is the exception to the rule. Most long time NHL'ers don't accept ending their career in the AHL. And by the same token, most long time Wings haven't accepted ending their career in Grand Rapids.

Most guys would rather retire if it came to that.



Yeah, Rafalski's knees were shot. Guess who else's knees are shot? Cleary's.



Well I agree with you there.

One is a forward and the other is a defenseman. From my understanding defensemen tend to last longer than forwards, unless you're Jagr or some other top player.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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One is a forward and the other is a defenseman. From my understanding defensemen tend to last longer than forwards, unless you're Jagr or some other top player.

I'm not sure. But I looked at the leaders in career games played, and in the top 25 there were 17 forwards and 8 defenseman.
 

hot dog

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
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Rafalski was 37, and Cleary will be 37 in December, so yeah I'd say it's pretty comparable. And my point was that not all guys play for as long as possible. Lidstrom and Rafalski clearly could have kept playing if they desired.

Would've been 38 when the season started. Cleary would be on the same pace if he retired next year. Plus Rafalski's retirement was really considered a year early by most.

Look, I'm not advocating for Cleary playing or anything. The guy is obviously done. But if he wants to keep playing and someone is willing to pay him a lot of money to do that, I'm not going to fault the guy. I would do the same thing (well, depends on how the body actually feels... hard to know). And for the first time his desire to keep playing isn't going to hurt the team - so I'm happy for the guy. I really like what he was at his peak.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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Would've been 38 when the season started. Cleary would be on the same pace if he retired next year. Plus Rafalski's retirement was really considered a year early by most.

Look, I'm not advocating for Cleary playing or anything. The guy is obviously done. But if he wants to keep playing and someone is willing to pay him a lot of money to do that, I'm not going to fault the guy. I would do the same thing (well, depends on how the body actually feels... hard to know). And for the first time his desire to keep playing isn't going to hurt the team - so I'm happy for the guy. I really like what he was at his peak.

Fair enough. I'm not sure if I buy he really wants to play there, or if he's just gonna see if there is any injuries in camp and then retire.

Either way, like you said it's nice it's not really gonna cost us anything this year for a change.
 

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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Rafalski didn't retire just because of the right knee. It was the back problem caused in 2009 Anaheim series, that had a bigger risk to turn a lot of worse.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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Rafalski didn't retire just because of the right knee. It was the back problem caused in 2009 Anaheim series, that had a bigger risk to turn a lot of worse.

Was probably both, because I remember them repeatedly saying he had no cartilage in one of or both knees, and how that was an issue.
 

Actual Thought*

Guest
Sure. But how about if you had already made 21+ million over your career? Not sure about you, but I could live off that just fine.

Ever consider that he is passionate about hockey? Maybe he loves being at the rink. Maybe he loves mentoring kids which he is extremely qualified to do. Maybe he cares about the future of his family and will sacrifice anything to ensure their future is as good as it can be for generations. You clearly have no respect for the guy but I assure you that these kids have tremendous respect for a guy with his name on the Stanley Cup who is CLEARLY a STRONG CHARACTER GUY.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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Dan Cleary worked his ass off to become a viable NHL player after almost flaming out early in his career. If the Wings want to keep paying him to play AHL hockey and it doesn't hurt their cap at all... I see no harm in him continuing to play. He's a pretty darn good locker room influence and by all accounts is still a ridiculously hard worker.

The only reason people got apoplectic about resigning him in previous years was that the deals kept using salary cap money the team needed on a player that they no longer did. If the cap money isn't being used and he's realistically only "blocking" an AHL lifer who is literally in the same boat he's in, nobody should be pissed at all.

Basically, if he can get them to pay 950k for him to play in the AHL and he's still got the burning desire to play hockey, why should he walk away?
 

Heaton

Moderator
Feb 13, 2004
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Auburn Hills
Dan Cleary worked his ass off to become a viable NHL player after almost flaming out early in his career. If the Wings want to keep paying him to play AHL hockey and it doesn't hurt their cap at all... I see no harm in him continuing to play. He's a pretty darn good locker room influence and by all accounts is still a ridiculously hard worker.

The only reason people got apoplectic about resigning him in previous years was that the deals kept using salary cap money the team needed on a player that they no longer did. If the cap money isn't being used and he's realistically only "blocking" an AHL lifer who is literally in the same boat he's in, nobody should be pissed at all.

Basically, if he can get them to pay 950k for him to play in the AHL and he's still got the burning desire to play hockey, why should he walk away?

The issue is the idea of Cleary being called up to play on the Wings at any point of the season. Him getting playing time over any player with a perceived future in the organization would be ridiculous.
 

Actual Thought*

Guest
The issue is the idea of Cleary being called up to play on the Wings at any point of the season. Him getting playing time over any player with a perceived future in the organization would be ridiculous.

There is absolutely no issue. Why can't people understand that. He got passed over last year while he was the 14th forward on the Wing's club. He wasn't a problem then and he isn't a problem now.
 

Squirrel in the Hole

Be the best squirrel in the hole
Feb 18, 2004
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professional athletes can't stop. they have huge drive (and ego). that's what made cleary an effective player. and that's what still keeping him going.
^This

The thing is, once you end it (assuming you have that call, a few guys without contacts right now may not have that call) it is over. Forever.

I don't blame him for trying to push that back just a little longer.
 

Heaton

Moderator
Feb 13, 2004
22,548
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Auburn Hills
There is absolutely no issue. Why can't people understand that. He got passed over last year while he was the 14th forward on the Wing's club. He wasn't a problem then and he isn't a problem now.

Considering all of the other players are getting clean slate, why wouldn't Cleary?
 

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