Tao Jones said:
Sorry to go OT, but I'd like to see where Ray Bourque is on the Mike Gartner test.
Dr Love said:
Ray Bourque is no doubt about it Hall of Famer. There's no need to question his credentails. The Keltner List was made for players of questionable worthiness, that's what the Gartner test should be for as well.
i agree. but just for fun:
*There are no correct or incorrect answers to these questions. There is no ideal combination of answers. It is simply a set of questions that helps one put a player in a better perspective.*
The Gartner Test: Raymond Bourque
1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in hockey? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in hockey?
Not to my knowledge. Maybe best defenceman....but i doubt someone woulda picked him over Gretzky or Lemieux at the time.
2. Was he the best player on his team?
Yes. For a large part of his career, i would say he was.
3. Was he the best player in hockey at his position? Was he the best player in his conference at his position?
Id say yes, slightly, to both accounts. Aside from coffey, i dont think anyone could've given Bourque a run for his money at top dman. Maybe chelios, leetch or macinnis...but id take Raymond over all of them by a hair.
4. Did he have an impact on a number of Cup runs?
Well...technically only one real cup run. But he had a few good postseasons.
23 pts. in 82/83
21 pts. in 87/88
17 pts. in 89/90
25 pts. in 90/91
5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime?
Sure was. He saw still a key player on the Bruins and even the Avs, well past his 35th.
6. Is he the very best hockey player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?
He is in the hall of fame.
7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame?
Of course. Hes in the top 10 in all time scoring, and hes a defenceman. What more can you ask from a guy?
1579 points, 410 goals in 1612 career reg season games.
180 points, 41 goals in 214 career playoff games.
8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?
Note: Hall of Fame Standards is a formula for the baseball hall of fame. Since we've already discussed his career numbers, this question will be passed.
9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?
Not really. Putting up those kind of numbers, you would think that he would be as bad as Phil Housley or Bryan Berard on the defensive side of the game, but that is not true. (Aside from the times he got schooled by Mario) He was, at the very worst, an above average defensive defenseman.
10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame?
All time? Nope. But, over the course of his hockey playing days, he forged a career that will not soon be forgotten.
11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close? How many awards total did he ever win?
None. Playing in the heydey of some of the all time great forwards will do that to you. Aside from Pronger in 00', no dman has won the pearson since 1975 (orr). 1972 for the hart (orr). He won 5 norris trophies (leagues best defenseman), the calder memorial trophy (best rookie) and king clancy (on and off ice contributions).
12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame?
Ray was the recipient of 17 postseason all star selections, good for second all time, next to only gordie howe. He also holds the record for most consecutive all star game appearances. (19)
13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could make the Finals?
Yes.
14. What impact did the player have on hockey history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?
Umm..him and coffey inspired a lot of young puck moving, dmen?
15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?
Ray bourque was one of the greatest ambassadors of the game. a real class act. I have never heard anyone say any bad things about the guy. When he came back to boston after asking for a trade to colorado, the home fans cheered him even when he scored a goal. How can you not like the guy?
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