Management Claude Julien II Mod Note post 754

[bruinsfan1970]

New thread and lets remember this can become a heated topic so please no personal shots will be tolerated.

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[Absurdity]

I don't agree on the Cassidy and the D. I think this team tried to do a lot of the things we're seeing now last year. The difference is this year Carlo is in your top pair instead of Kevan Miller. Colin and Morrow are a year older, wiser and much improved. They had Liles for a long stretch of the first 30 games... I talked about this last year with MMB, and I remember Eriksson saying that he was very comfortable with the new breakout patterns where the forwards leave early and slash across the Nzone and the D try to get the puck up ice off the walls... He said it was very similar to what they did in Dallas. The less D to D and more up ice movement started last year. They still go D to D. Chara and Carlo made 3 in a row against the Isles the other night, but I think they also have more speed up front this year and are better at collecting those indirect area passes.

We agree on the lineup discussion. Look at the lines that came out today. Pasta and Vatrano are in, and still nobody's happy. Everybody thinks their version is the secret sauce.

Heinen played a game when he was called up and he went 0-0-0 -1. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that while Nash isn't going to win any scoring titles, he might help you win a game more than a kid who's still trying to find his way, especially when the margin for winning/losing is 1 goal.

I don't agree that "Spooner and Czarnik are centers." Maybe in the 80's they'd be perfect, but they're not the guys I'd want as my centers in today's NHL. Every team in the league asks their centers to play like 3rd defensemen in their own zone now. Every single one. Every college team. Every junior team. Every single one. Defenses have evolved and this is how the game is played. It's why there's been a movement to bigger centers. There's also been a movement to put more skill on the wings, because those are the guys who get to fly the zone, who carry the puck through the neutral zone. That's where I think they can be most effective.

Fwiw, I like Backes better at C. If we make a trade, I'd like to see them get Hanzal (another Backes, basically) to be the 3C. As far as that 46/42 pair goes, I think they've bee together a lot because they're two of the teams better players and they didn't want to break up a line that was so effective. That leaves the only other option as putting Backes as the 3C which comes with a reduction in ice time. Folks can say it doesn't but I've looked at the numbers of this team over time and the 3rd line has always played less. This team has been injured. It's been starved for talent because of those injures, so they made the decision not to reduce the ice time of one of their more talented players. I can understand that. I also think they have had some really good games. Backes played on Bergeron's RW for two games recently and when they switched him back to Krejci's wing I remember saying they suddenly started dominating possession. I just don't think 46/42 are so strong that they can carry a 3rd wheel who's not clicking. Maybe that impression is wrong and we'll find out when Vatrano gets up to speed. If it is, I have no problem seeing Backes go down to the 3rd line with the added depth off IR.

Lastly, I don't agree with the sentiment that all this team does is take perimeter shots. Or that they pad their shot totals with perimeter shots. I watch the games, and the guys who do most of the shooting on this team do it inside the house.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the state of the defense these last two seasons. Last season we saw a lot of D-D passes in their own zone and try for those breakout passes from their own zone to the neutral zone or along the boards, and that was the problem. Most of the time those passes would be intercepted or contested along the boards by opposing forecheckers. It allowed for opposing teams to hem a weak Bruins corp in their own zone. It was why many here were clamoring for the Bruins to trade for Shattenkirk even if it meant Krejci was going the other way because the Bruins needed someone able to carry the puck out of their zone. Looking at the defense today which apart from Carlo, who has been a great help for this team defensively, was the same yet this year sure we are seeing the occasional D-D passes, but there are cleaner, smoother, and quicker transitions out of their zone capitalizing on quicker and shorter passes and carrying the puck out across their blueline. In my opinion, I think it's a reason why the Bruins have statistically been so much better defensively this season than last season with largely the same personnel on defense.

In my opinion, I think Heinen is just as good defensively as Nash is, but Heinen has more offensive potential than Nash. It's true that he was 0-0-0 -1 in that game, but Marchand was 0-1-1 -3 in his first twenty games. I think he deserves a shot given his two-way capabilities and being able to produce with guys like Backes and Pastrnak in the preseason.

I won't disagree with you there. I've said in the past that I don't think Spooner has much of a future with the Bruins, and I'm not surprised that the Bruins were rumored to be wanting to package him for a top 6 winger. I still believe Spooner is better utilized as a center, but I don't think it will be for a team like Boston long term. I think Claude trusts Czanrik a lot more defensively, and it's a plus that he can play wing.

I wouldn't mind Hanzal if Vatrano - Krejci - Backes hopefully works. There's also the possibility of packaging Spooner for a winger to play with Krejci - Backes or even Krejci - Vatrano so Backes can be moved to the 3rd line to provide depth. I think Backes can still get his 18 minutes playing on the 3rd line. Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel still get their 18+min while they all play on different lines. Backes will still get his PP and PK time. It may require shifting him a few times with the top 6 lines, but I do think it's possible.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

So, I am especially wanting to hear from the major Julien defenders, is he partially responsible for slow starts?

Genuinely curious if that would fall under something Claude can be criticized for.

We are struggling to truly find common ground amongst the two sides as to what Claude can, unarguably, be held responsible for. Does slow starts fall under that category?

And if you say "no", I already understand that your answer is "these are professional athletes...they shouldn't need motivation to start a game on time" or something along those lines.

I personally think this is something that is partially on Claude and the coaching staff.

 

[jgatie]

I personally think this is something that is partially on Claude and the coaching staff.

Why? Do you think he instructs them to go out cautiously and not try to score?

 

[missingchicklet]

So, I am especially wanting to hear from the major Julien defenders, is he partially responsible for slow starts?

Genuinely curious if that would fall under something Claude can be criticized for.

We are struggling to truly find common ground amongst the two sides as to what Claude can, unarguably, be held responsible for. Does slow starts fall under that category?

And if you say "no", I already understand that your answer is "these are professional athletes...they shouldn't need motivation to start a game on time" or something along those lines.

I personally think this is something that is partially on Claude and the coaching staff.

If the blame on a slow start as seen last night falls partially on the coaching staff then that same staff better be given credit for the comeback. I don't put any blame on the staff for last night's crap start. Several players made poor decisions and/or the goalie failed to stop the puck. It's that simple. This team is what it is -- mediocre, with some of its stars failing to play well. Crap starts and losses are going to happen given that scenario. Rah rah inspirational speeches before games by coaches are cute to have in movies but in real pro sports pre-game talk by the coaches is generally low-key and professional, focusing on the overall strategy for the game. If the players fail to execute then that is on the players, not the coaches. Stars not performing, a lot of youth, lack of top-four defenders, and below-average vets are the issue with this team. It's easy to point a finger at the coach, and in some cases warranted, but in the case of CJ and the Bs there are much bigger problems than him. Not saying he's perfect. He's not. But he is a damn good coach dealing with a not so great management group and a mediocre roster made worse by the better players playing pretty crappy for whatever reason.

 

[Mpasta]

Why? Do you think he instructs them to go out cautiously and not try to score?

Wow, so Claude isn't to blame AT ALL?

I guess we shouldn't give him credit when the team plays well either.

 

[DaStinger]

Im still committed to Claude. Our offense sucks but our defense has been much better than it looks on paper. Still feel he is getting more out of this team than should be otherwise expected. This year I'd rather they didn't over achieve, but that's on the GM not the coach.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Wow, so Claude isn't to blame AT ALL?

I guess we shouldn't give him credit when the team plays well either.

Exact definition of a strawman argument. You reply to what he said with a statement that doesn't even come close to addressing what he actually said. Nicely done.

 

[jgatie]

Wow, so Claude isn't to blame AT ALL?

I guess we shouldn't give him credit when the team plays well either.

Where in the hell did I say Claude isn't to blame AT ALL? I asked a poster who blames him for slow starts if he thinks Claude tells the team to go out cautiously and not try to score. It's a fair question, and by no means does it let Claude off the hook for anything (including slow starts for Christ's sake!).

 

[SPLBRUIN]

I'm not a supporter of Julien at all but I think he has done a pretty good job so far. On most nights, especially as of late we control the play and out-chance our opponents, but are let down by poor finshing/hot goaltending or else our goalie plays poorly, like in the last 2 games. Where I am frustrated with Julien is his insistence on using Nash on our top 3 lines and dressing of the equally futile Hayes. I also don't get the love for McQuaid/K. Miller over our younger puck movers ( C. Miller/Morrow). It doesn't matter how much those 2 screw up they will always be in the lineup to the detriment of the team. Time for Sweeney to earn his paycheque by taking away these binkies of Julien.

 

[BMC]

Why? Do you think he instructs them to go out cautiously and not try to score?

This has been a running theme here along with "Claude hates young players" and it is just as wrong. The Bruins just don't have the horses to score a lot of goals and that is something a lot of people here just don't want to know.

 

[Dr Hook]

This has been a running theme here along with "Claude hates young players" and it is just as wrong. The Bruins just don't have the horses to score a lot of goals and that is something a lot of people here just don't want to know.

Well, he could probably start by threatening their families or something in the pre-game talk

 

[Mpasta]

I personally think this is something that is partially on Claude and the coaching staff.

Why? Do you think he instructs them to go out cautiously and not try to score?

Where in the hell did I say Claude isn't to blame AT ALL? I asked a poster who blames him for slow starts if he thinks Claude tells the team to go out cautiously and not try to score. It's a fair question, and by no means does it let Claude off the hook for anything (including slow starts for Christ's sake!).

Haha wait did you honestly forget what you wrote that quickly? He said Claude was PARTIALLY to blame and you asked why.

Exact definition of a strawman argument. You reply to what he said with a statement that doesn't even come close to addressing what he actually said. Nicely done.

I've given my opinion millions of times and since nobody can refute it, I gave up. But since I have to give my side of an argument instead of asking a question on a message board, I'll ask again...

Why could this team score last year with a very similar if not worse roster but can't do it this year yet people blame the talent?

 

[since76]

This has been a running theme here along with "Claude hates young players" and it is just as wrong.

It is very funny the propagand used by claude lovers
Just like "clode hate young players" ...very strange because i don't see it anywhere ?
The reality is not that he hate young players, it is that he is in pure love with his hayes, nash and all other 5 goals a year pp players )))))
The clode protection shield is total and impossible to break, sacco should be fired for pp but clode have zero responsability even if he is the one who choose to put ahl players on pp
When bruins win, congrats to clode
When bruins lose, shame on players
Sweeny gave players clode love and want and now it is on sweeny shoulder
The most hilarious of all is that sweeny should take out of clode hands some bad players for force him to not use them ))))))
There is no way you can find one bad thing on clode , stop to try
We all know there is not one human on earth ( 8 milliards ) who can be better than clode
So end of discussion )))))

 

[jgatie]

Haha wait did you honestly forget what you wrote that quickly? He said Claude was PARTIALLY to blame and you asked why.

Right, I asked why the poster felt that way, then asked him if he thought Claude told them to go out cautiously and not try to score. At no time did I give the opinion that I thought the poster was wrong, or that I thought Claude was not to blame. I asked for the poster's opinion, gave a possible reason, then awaited the answer.

Then you made a strawman out of it.

 

[BruinDust]

The problem with Julien isn't that he dislikes young players (it isn't true at all).

The problem with Julien is that he doesn't dislike players who cannot score or produce or move the puck, at the NHL level.

 

[smithformeragent]

CSN suggesting Clode could be done.

If Clode takes the fall for this situation, I'll seriously consider jumping ship and following a different team.

 

[BruinDust]

CSN suggesting Clode could be done.

If Clode takes the fall for this situation, I'll seriously consider jumping ship and following a different team.

They should try getting rid of the dead weight first before firing Claude.

I proposed this in another thread.

Waive/demote Hayes, Nash, Acciari, Kevan Miller, and Khudobin immediately. I can't see how waiving a back-up goaltender clearly not getting the job done, and 4 players with 3 goals between them, is going to hurt this club.

Promote Debrusk and McIntyre and see what they can do. Call-up Cross and Randell as spare players/place-holders until the return of Liles and Belesky respectively.

If this doesn't help and doesn't give this team a jolt of either fear or anger, and by all reports can't make a trade in this climate, then maybe you fire the coach.

But I'd like to see a mass exodus of dead weight orchestrated by Sweeney first.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Wow, so Claude isn't to blame AT ALL?

I guess we shouldn't give him credit when the team plays well either.

Now you're getting it.

When Marchand, Pasta and Bergeron combine on a great three-way passing play and one of them finishes it, Claude has nothing to do with that. Much like if Krejci misses an open net (or scores on Khodubin), not on Claude. Players playing great, players playing bad, its on them. The coach put in a system that works when the players execute correctly and play well. Its up to them.

 

[Mpasta]

CSN suggesting Clode could be done.

If Clode takes the fall for this situation, I'll seriously consider jumping ship and following a different team.

It's Haggs so I wouldn't look to into it.

 

[missingchicklet]

They should try getting rid of the dead weight first before firing Claude.

I proposed this in another thread.

Waive/demote Hayes, Nash, Acciari, Kevan Miller, and Khudobin immediately. I can't see how waiving a back-up goaltender clearly not getting the job done, and 4 players with 3 goals between them, is going to hurt this club.

Promote Debrusk and McIntyre and see what they can do. Call-up Cross and Randell as spare players/place-holders until the return of Liles and Belesky respectively.

If this doesn't help and doesn't give this team a jolt of either fear or anger, and by all reports can't make a trade in this climate, then maybe you fire the coach.

But I'd like to see a mass exodus of dead weight orchestrated by Sweeney first.

Read the article mentioned and it's the usual trash from Haggerty. I honestly do not understand how he stays employed as a hockey writer. He is a disgrace to his profession.

I agree with much of the above post. The whole Khudobin mess is the most glaring thing to me. He has started 7 games and has 1 win. How is that even possible in the NHL and still keep your job as a goalie? If he had even 3 or 4 wins this team is in a much better position in the points race. For Sweeney to sit on his hands this long with an abysmal backup goalie situation is pure incompetence. And how is it possible for this GM to not address the most glaring holes in the roster two years running, but is content to waste his time tinkering around with plugs and overpaid trash? But, yeah, Haggerty in his infinite wisdom thinks firing the coach will provide the needed "jolt." If indeed Sweeney is serious about making the playoffs then he better get his crap together and start acting like it instead of giving it lip service.

 

[bp13]

I really like CJ and have always felt he
was a driving force behind this team's success. That said, I'm okay with the idea of a coaching change if they feel a new message is required. But what bothers me is that the GM hasn't done much of anything to address the key problems on this roster, and moreover, I think their standing is about inline with the their talent. So what's the plan when the new coach keeps them status quo, or worse?

I want to see a more proactive, more responsible, more honest front office and ownership. Firing the coach is not being accountable here...it's smoke and mirrors. Which again, I get, is part of the business. But it won't end up being best for the players or fans in the long run.

 

[BruinsFanMike82]

During an NBCSN pre-game broadcast, it was noted that there has been “some speculation, some whispers, that perhaps Claude Julien is on the hot seat.â€

The question Bruins fans would want to know then is just how serious that speculation should be taken.

“I wouldn’t take it very serious in the moment,†said TSN NHL Insider Darren Dreger. “This is social media, and when you’re in a slow time coming out of a roster freeze, this is the type of stuff that is almost like sport when you look at certain organizations. And we know historically the volatility of the Boston Bruins, from ownership down, how hands-on they can be with Cam Neely hovering about.

“And you’re right. We have speculated, I would say on an annual basis – multiple times in fact over the course of the years in-season – that Claude Julien could be on the hot seat. But sources in Boston tell me that’s not the case unless something changes from above. That’s possible, but that’s unlikely.

“This is a team that’s in transition. They’re trying to change and adapt on the fly and get younger on the fly, and that’s not easy to do. What we do know is if Claude Julien is fired in-season, somebody is going to make the move and hire that guy based on his history.â€

http://www.fanragsports.com/news/dreger-wouldnt-take-julien-hot-seat-speculation-seriously/

 

[Brucentric*]

Firing this great coach would simply be a extension of the failed work of this management team. Sweeney has two years now of not making the playoffs because he has not been able to make an NHL hockey trade in order to get what the team sorely needs. He easily traded a top four dman but has never replaced him. Then thinking Krug was a top 4 guy compounded the problem. He easily traded Looch. He let Louie go for nothing. He has added not one impact player in almost three years now. His team is un balanced and lacking the talent on defense to compete.

Sweeney is the one who needs to be fired. It is so obvious. He has done nothing to make this team better. Not one thing that anyone on this board could not do. He panicked on Dougie. And while the Looch trade was OK, It still did noting to make the team better two years later.

Does he realize the people in this great hockey town can see right through him. Scary to say but this regime is reminding me of the Sinden years when Jacobs cost us a few cups by not spending the extra dollar. I hope we are not going back to that.

 

[NiftyWasNasty]

Sweeney has two years now of not making the playoffs