Claude Giroux & The Hall

[Sasso09]

One cup win and 4 or 5 more 70+ point seasons

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Nope he won't get in.

 

[glovesave_35]

yep and a few others

with Claude

how many 30+ goals seasons has he had?
How many 100 pts seasons has he had?

when the answer is none at this point in time?

hall of greatness not very good

for me he is 425 pts away from even being in the discussion and 120 to 200 goals

needs atleast one back to back 30 goal season and 2 100 pts seasons to get in the discussion

hall is for greatness
not for the very good

100 points today isn't what it once was, so I think that just needs to be thrown out of the "have to" from the outset. Heck, Mike Modano never had a single 100 point season and he's in (and deservedly so). I would be surprised if he's the only one in that boat.

Regarding the goal scoring, you're wrong about the necessities again here. Another recent inductee (Peter Forsberg) shows that simple statistical benchmarks like "back to back 30 goal seasons" aren't actually part of the standard.

For the record, I'm not saying Giroux should or will get in. I think he's a very good player but hasn't reached the level yet. These two down seasons in his late 20's certainly don't help. He could get in, but he would need to string together a good number of seasons as a top end scorer. Team success with him being a lynchpin would go a long way as well.

 

[NeutralFan88]

I thought this was comparing him and Taylor Hall. No way he gets in.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's a shame, really. His peak season was SO good and he was so much fun to watch. Too bad he couldn't sustain it.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Based on current performance, I say he doesn't come close. He would have to win a cup or two for sure, and a lot more points. To me he is similar to how I view Toews in the HOF. I don't see either with a pace similar to their current performance, getting into the Hall. For example: I love Zetterberg, but very likely he doesn't make it in, with less than 1000 pts and more than 1000 GP. Right now Giroux, Toews, and number of other really good players right now, will likely not make it in, unless the HOF standards go quite a bit down.

toews not getting in LOL

zetterberg will get in too, don't know about claude

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

This is great, and winner of the thread!



Why are the bolded ones HOF locks? Toews has three cups, but is well under a 1000 points, and he seems to be trending downwards the past 1 or 2 seasons. Doughty hasn't done enough to be in HOF consideration yet. Even Kane and Keith aren't locks, as winning 3 Cups doesn't guarentee you a spot. In Keith's case there are number of really good defenceman who haven't made it in yet, so he could easily not make it. The only ones on your list who are guaranteed, are Crosby and Malkin. Price has to keep adding to his win totals and maybe add a cup or more hardware to get in.

ok now it is clear you have no idea how the hall works, it's like you think they only take 2 guys every 10 years or something, you want to keep out the main core of a team that won 3 cups

kane and keith have multiple individual trophies so i have no idea why you would think they aren't getting in the hall, there is zero argument against them they are already better than most of the guys already in

toews is the most loved guy by the media, he is getting in easily

 

[Redline]

He's not gonna make it lol

No he won't and i don't have any problem with players of his level not being HOF'ers.

 

[Gordon Lightfoot]

I'm amazed this is open. If this was in the polls section it would be closed due to landslide. He won't come close IMO, and I'm a big Giroux fan.

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

One cup win and 4 or 5 more 70+ point seasons

So in other words he's not getting in.

 

[Shaftception]

I'll never understand the whole "most points scored over 5 years" narrative.

To me that's always come off as a detriment to arguments in favor of Giroux rather than a benefit, because people know they have to disingenuously omit games played in order to pass it off as if it was an accurate representation of his skill level compared to his peers at the time. It's why Giroux-adjusted-points are so funny, because it's telling that in order to make him appear better than the other stars of the time, you have to leave out crucial information that would tell a contradictory story.

If you knowingly have to fudge numbers to make your case for a player, you know you never really had one in the first place.

 

[Oddbob]

ok now it is clear you have no idea how the hall works, it's like you think they only take 2 guys every 10 years or something, you want to keep out the main core of a team that won 3 cups

Kane and Keith have multiple individual trophies so i have no idea why you would think they aren't getting in the hall, there is zero argument against them they are already better than most of the guys already in

Toews is the most loved guy by the media, he is getting in easily

Get over yourself, thinking you are the only one who knows how it works. If Toews/Kane can hit 900+ points, plus their cups and awards, yeah they are locks to get in, but Turgeon for example has 1200 pts and he isn't in. There are lots of guys who aren't in, that maybe should be in, that have had similar and better careers than Toews/Kane.

Winning cups is not a guarantee to get in the Hall, otherwise Kris Draper would be in, he has 4. Neither Toews or Kane have won that many personal awards to be locks yet with 600-700 pts. Being a media darling as Toews is, is also not getting you in, on that alone.

The reason I said Zetterberg won't get in, is how many less than a 1000pt forwards get into the HOF? Not many at all.

Also want to add in, that Giroux has similar points in less GP than Toews.

 

[Tripod]

I'll never understand the whole "most points scored over 5 years" narrative.

To me that's always come off as a detriment to arguments in favor of Giroux rather than a benefit, because people know they have to disingenuously omit games played in order to pass it off as if it was an accurate representation of his skill level compared to his peers at the time. It's why Giroux-adjusted-points are so funny, because it's telling that in order to make him appear better than the other stars of the time, you have to leave out crucial information that would tell a contradictory story.

If you knowingly have to fudge numbers to make your case for a player, you know you never really had one in the first place.

This post is just trash.

The most points over 5 years is because those who have done it, have also made the HHOF. It also shows that he was a top point getter over that time. It doesn't mean he was the best player. You want to punish him for playing hurt or remaining healthy. That makes no sense.

This decade he is 4th in points and top 10 in PPG excluding McDavid and retired St.Louis. It doesn't mean it's good enough to make the HHOF, but it does show that he has been elite over that time period. Or should we ignore his 2 top 3 Art Ross finishes and a top 3 and top 4 Hart finishes?

I don't think he gets in if he levels off at a 60 point guy for a few years here. He has 5 years left on his deal and would need to be a 70 point guy over that time AND sign for a few more years and produce getting him to 1000 points. Or, if he had a few great playoffs mixed in helping the Flyers win a cup, he could get in with 900ish points. Still going to be very hard to do.

 

[Aceboogie]

He can visit the Hall as a guest, but thats the only way hell ever get thru the doors

 

[Incognito]

His goals, assists, and points totals have all declined in each of the past four years. He's not headed in the right direction in terms of HHoF enshrinement.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Get over yourself, thinking you are the only one who knows how it works. If Toews/Kane can hit 900+ points, plus their cups and awards, yeah they are locks to get in, but Turgeon for example has 1200 pts and he isn't in. There are lots of guys who aren't in, that maybe should be in, that have had similar and better careers than Toews/Kane.

Winning cups is not a guarantee to get in the Hall, otherwise Kris Draper would be in, he has 4. Neither Toews or Kane have won that many personal awards to be locks yet with 600-700 pts. Being a media darling as Toews is, is also not getting you in, on that alone.

The reason I said Zetterberg won't get in, is how many less than a 1000pt forwards get into the HOF? Not many at all.

Also want to add in, that Giroux has similar points in less GP than Toews.

draper was like the 10th best player on his team, and you are comparing him to toews and kane with all of their success?

they made the nhl top 100 all time list, and you think they are not hall of famers

so lets go over this again, you think a team with 3 cups has zero hall of famers, while 2 of them had seasons where they were considered the best in the game at their position

art ross, hart, selke, norris, and conn smythe trophies but none of that matters because they didn't play enough years to get 1000 points?

[mod]

 

[tade]

Why would Stanley Cup wins help his cause? Everyone always says it's a team game, so players don't get any credit for winning them.

Not the Cup itself, but if Flyers win the SC while Giroux is MVP and wins the Conn Smythe? Then suddenly there's a legit discussion + couple of elite seasons with around 80 pts. There's still a chance for Giroux. He's not even 30 years old. It's nothing unusual to see that older players (30+) are able to play on elite level for multiple years.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Not the Cup itself, but if Flyers win the SC while Giroux is MVP and wins the Conn Smythe? Then suddenly there's a legit discussion + couple of elite seasons with around 80 pts. There's still a chance for Giroux. He's not even 30 years old. It's nothing unusual to see that older players (30+) are able to play on elite level for multiple years.

Right. But usually those guys are still playing at an elite level *before* they turn 30 in order to keep that level of play up. Giroux hasn't played like an elite player for at least 2 seasons now.

 

[Paralyzer]

So why would Lindros be allowed in the Hall of Fame if LeClair or Giroux have no shot of making it in? What has he done that these two haven't? People saying LeClair or Giroux not being in is because they didn't win a cup or two is not true. Some players get in by pure skill. That being said, if Giroux picked it up again and started producing a PPG or more, he can make it in, regardless if he won a cup.

 

[Tripod]

Right. But usually those guys are still playing at an elite level *before* they turn 30 in order to keep that level of play up. Giroux hasn't played like an elite player for at least 2 seasons now.

So what do you think of Tavares PPG dropping for the last 3 years in a row as well as his points?

Will he continue to go down?

Reality is, for Giroux, this is an important year. He has dealt with injuries the last 2 off seasons which fir sure affected his seasons. This summer, he is is healthy and needs to bounce back.

He won't get back to the highs he once was at. But he can be a 70 point guy still IMO.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So what do you think of Tavares PPG dropping for the last 3 years in a row as well as his points?

Will he continue to go down?

With regards to HoF chances, my view is the same on Tavares as it is on Giroux. They'd have to get in based on longevity and milestone career totals, rather than individual dominance because both guys have an empty trophy case that will get them in.

With regards to point totals as a whole, I think there's a better chance Tavares rebounds a bit (though I'm not sold he'll return to anywhere close to Art Ross contender) simply because he's two years younger and still smack dab in his prime, while Giroux is inching ever closer to outside those typical prime years in the mid to late 20s.

 

[Tripod]

With regards to HoF chances, my view is the same on Tavares as it is on Giroux. They'd have to get in based on longevity and milestone career totals, rather than individual dominance because both guys have an empty trophy case that will get them in.

With regards to point totals as a whole, I think there's a better chance Tavares rebounds a bit (though I'm not sold he'll return to anywhere close to Art Ross contender) simply because he's two years younger and still smack dab in his prime, while Giroux is inching ever closer to outside those typical prime years in the mid to late 20s.

And that's fair to say.

Of course one could look at it a different way and say that both guys have seen their PPG go down the last 3 years straight. And since it's happening to Tavares at a younger age, it's even more surprising.

But if you go to the Tavares HHOF thread, way more different "tone" compared to this one.

Both guys need to rebound for multiple years to have a chance. Not sure it happens but this coming year is important for both.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

And that's fair to say.

Of course one could look at it a different way and say that both guys have seen their PPG go down the last 3 years straight. And since it's happening to Tavares at a younger age, it's even more surprising.

But if you go to the Tavares HHOF thread, way more different "tone" compared to this one.

Both guys need to rebound for multiple years to have a chance. Not sure it happens but this coming year is important for both.

I think that stems from, for whatever reason, HF still putting Tavares on a pedestal based on his hype coming out of junior and the player he was supposed to become (ie. almost Crosby/McDavid tier). Just my 2 cents, but it sometimes seems Tavares is ranked/rated based on what he *should have been* rather than what he's actually achieved.

 

[PunkRockLocke]

Not even close.
Unless the Flyers become a great team in the next 5-7 years and he captains them to multiple cups. Which won't happen.

 

[joez86]

I think that stems from, for whatever reason, HF still putting Tavares on a pedestal based on his hype coming out of junior and the player he was supposed to become (ie. almost Crosby/McDavid tier). Just my 2 cents, but it sometimes seems Tavares is ranked/rated based on what he *should have been* rather than what he's actually achieved.

That is a part of it, but it probably has even more to do with anti-Flyers bias causing Giroux to be treated like he's a bum playing on his last legs.
Just my biased opinion, though.