Claude Giroux: "Reasons to be Cheerful Part III"

[Striiker]

Some people clearly can’t evaluate players.

No wonder Hakstol was such a hero.

 

[AdamParrot]

48 points in 44 games.

In team who is last in NHL Eastern Conference.

It's unbelievable. He and Stone (48 in 45) are really great f***ing players. And I really want Stone in Philly too.

 

[Rebels57]

48 points in 44 games.

In team who is last in NHL Eastern Conference.

It's unbelievable. He and Stone (48 in 45) are really great ****ing players. And I really want Stone in Philly too.

I might even want Stone more than Panarin. I think he will cost substantially less while providing incredible value because of how good he is defensively as well. He could be our Hossa.

 

[Striiker]

It's a shame that Giroux's point total is so much lower than his quality of play deserves.

Unfortunately, if you make a perfect pass that gets flubbed, you get nothing. And as far as goals go, he pretty much needs to create them by himself (like that one against the Lightning).

Then consider the PP being broke, through no fault of his own.
If he was scoring at the same pace he's averaged over the last 3 years on the PP, he'd have an additional 6 PP points right now, raising his total to 54 points in 44 games, which would be 10th in the league.

 

[deadhead]

I might even want Stone more than Panarin. I think he will cost substantially less while providing incredible value because of how good he is defensively as well. He could be our Hossa.

Yep. And his approach would fit with guys like Patrick, Frost and Farabee.
Culture matters.
I'd love him with G and Couts on the 1st line, move TK to Lindblom and Patrick on the 2nd line. Eventually Farabee moves up from the 3rd line to replace Giroux in 3-4 years. Meanwhile, we'll have to make do with Farabee - Frost - Kukko as our 3rd line.

 

[baudib1]

Appleyard is a savant at finding stats to show how good Giroux is.



There was a time in the NHL when it was universally understood that you wanted skill players on the PK. Paul Coffey, who was absolutely terrible defensively all of his career, was a great PKer.

Then the game evolved into suffocating as much skill and creativity out of the game as possible, and defending became all about giving opponents concussions and blocking shots.

Hopefully we're moving away from that. Watching PPs that are a contest of high-skill players challenging high-skill players is way more entertaining.

 

[TCTC]

I might even want Stone more than Panarin. I think he will cost substantially less while providing incredible value because of how good he is defensively as well. He could be our Hossa.

I'm greedy. I want both.

Panarin-Giroux-Stone as our top line would be pretty amazing.

 

[Striiker]

Out of boredom I was looking at the top scorers...

Out of the top 20:

CGY has 4
COL has 3
TBL has 2
EDM has 2
WPG has 2
TOR has 2
PIT has 1 (closest teammate 25th)
BOS has 1 (closest teammate 26th)
WSH has 1 (closest teammate 32nd)
SJS has 1 (closest teammate 40th)
CHI has 1 (closest teammate 46th)

Meanwhile, Giroux is at 24th and his closest teammate is 73rd. Poor guy is getting no help.

 

[Tripod]

He has 36 ES points in 44 games. Last year in his 1st 44 games, he had 33.

So more points on a much worse team.

Difference is PP...11 points this year and 21 at same point last year.

Crazy that it's our PP keeping guys points down.

 

[Magua]

He has 36 ES points in 44 games. Last year in his 1st 44 games, he had 33.

So more points on a much worse team.

Difference is PP...11 points this year and 21 at same point last year.

Crazy that it's our PP keeping guys points down.

Fraude Giroux is rapidly declining on the PP and is just an elite ES specialist now. Imagine.

Galchenyuk still available?

 

[deadhead]

I'm greedy. I want both.

Panarin-Giroux-Stone as our top line would be pretty amazing.

I'm not, I'll take Stone, and save the money for a veteran RHD.
G - Couts - Stone on the 1st line, Lindblom - Patrick - TK, and JVR - Frost - Kakko on the 3rd. Who needs a 4th?
Then replace JVR with Farabee in a year.

 

[Rebels57]

He has 36 ES points in 44 games. Last year in his 1st 44 games, he had 33.

So more points on a much worse team.

Difference is PP...11 points this year and 21 at same point last year.

Crazy that it's our PP keeping guys points down.

Ladies and gentlemen, Kris Knoblauch!

 

[baudib1]

I'm not, I'll take Stone, and save the money for a veteran RHD.
G - Couts - Stone on the 1st line, Lindblom - Patrick - TK, and JVR - Frost - Kakko on the 3rd. Who needs a 4th?
Then replace JVR with Farabee in a year.

It's amusing that you have Patrick (11 points) penciled in as your 2C while Voracek (35 points) doesn't even make your roster.

 

[Rebels57]

It's amusing that you have Patrick (11 points) penciled in as your 2C while Voracek (35 points) doesn't even make your roster.

Not as amusing as wanting to trade a 2020 1st and 2019 2nd for Jack Campbell

 

[TCTC]

I'm not, I'll take Stone, and save the money for a veteran RHD.
G - Couts - Stone on the 1st line, Lindblom - Patrick - TK, and JVR - Frost - Kakko on the 3rd. Who needs a 4th?
Then replace JVR with Farabee in a year.

That doesn't look like a much better team than what we have now. Frost and Kakko are question marks at best. If we get rid of Simmonds and Voracek we need more than just Stone as replacement.

 

[deadhead]

It's amusing that you have Patrick (11 points) penciled in as your 2C while Voracek (35 points) doesn't even make your roster.

Patrick is going to get a lot better, Jake, not so much.
And Patrick plays defense, something Jake remembers to do every third game.

 

[baudib1]

So if Patrick plays defense, by your measure, 300% more often than Jake, that still doesn't equal the fact that Jake has 318% more offense.

Patrick has a long ways to go to be Voracek's level of offense and it's really likely he will never get there. Jake can certainly have better seasons.

I'd take Frost at even money to as outscore Patrick in the NHL next year and I don't even know if he'll start the year on the team.

Anyway, I still think Jake can be worthy of a top 9 spot next year.

 

[Rebels57]

That doesn't look like a much better team than what we have now. Frost and Kakko are question marks at best. If we get rid of Simmonds and Voracek we need more than just Stone as replacement.

Stone is a better player than Voracek, so you don't think Frost and Kakko make up for Simmonds' 4th line production at 5v5?

 

[Striiker]

I love how people act like all prospects are some kind of impossible-to-predict question mark.

As if you can't evaluate players and make an educated guess on how they'll play in the NHL.

As if veterans are completely predictable and so much safer.

 

[TCTC]

Stone is a better player than Voracek, so you don't think Frost and Kakko make up for Simmonds' 4th line production at 5v5?

Frost and Kakko aren't even in the NHL right now. Kakko hasn't even been drafted yet (and probably won't ever be a Flyer anyway).
If we replace Voracek and Simmonds I'd rather want proven NHL talent.

We also thought replacing Filppula with Patrick would instantly make us a much better team and it hasn't really made a huge difference yet.

 

[deadhead]

Patrick is all of 20, and has been jacked around this season.
Couts in his second season 46g 4-11 15
Giroux at 22 had 26 ES points in his second season.
A little early to write off Patrick's scoring potential.

 

[Tripod]

Patrick is all of 20, and has been jacked around this season.
Couts in his second season 46g 4-11 15
Giroux at 22 had 26 ES points in his second season.
A little early to write off Patrick's scoring potential.

It's why I want to add the higher end guys this summer to take the BURDEN off of guys like Patrick and Lindblom to produce as 2nd liners, or it sinks us.

 

[deadhead]

So if Patrick plays defense, by your measure, 300% more often than Jake, that still doesn't equal the fact that Jake has 318% more offense.

Patrick has a long ways to go to be Voracek's level of offense and it's really likely he will never get there. Jake can certainly have better seasons.

I'd take Frost at even money to as outscore Patrick in the NHL next year and I don't even know if he'll start the year on the team.

Anyway, I still think Jake can be worthy of a top 9 spot next year.

Actually, this is as good as it gets for Voracek offensively, on a 56 ES point pace, he could have more PP points, but that's another issue.
However, he's also -17, and a lot of that is deserved.
His xGF is 49.27, xGFrel -3.14
Patrick, xGF 52.48, xGFrel +1.17

 

[Striiker]

Frost and Kakko aren't even in the NHL right now. Kakko hasn't even been drafted yet (and probably won't ever be a Flyer anyway).
If we replace Voracek and Simmonds I'd rather want proven NHL talent.

We also thought replacing Filppula with Patrick would instantly make us a much better team and it hasn't really made a huge difference yet.

By this logic Jack Hughes wouldn't be an upgrade next year either because he's not even in the NHL right now.

 

[baudib1]

Actually, this is as good as it gets for Voracek offensively, on a 56 ES point pace, he could have more PP points, but that's another issue.
However, he's also -17, and a lot of that is deserved.
His xGF is 49.27, xGFrel -3.14
Patrick, xGF 52.48, xGFrel +1.17

Dude. Patrick is a hot mess. His season has been a disaster. We can remain optimistic but let's not pretend he's been even passable. Most of his games he's been invisible at best. Voracek has had a bad season by his standards but he's still been way better than Patrick.