Claude Giroux: Part "Fire, Air, Water, Earth"

[Sawdalite]

Giroux is a hall of famer. He is not done yet. His numbers will keep compiling and Carter Hart will take him to finals again.

#14 better win the Seller this year and he could go on a run of those.

Gotta keep him on Wing here on out... I believe that had been established... NP situation has really set them back a bit. Should be better in future when Frost is teady... and hopefully, Patrick returns. In any case, I agree... he's not done racking up numbers yet... not even close... relatively, anyway.

 

[Appleyard]

If he doesn't win a Cup, the biggest argument for putting him in will be his top 4 Hart finishes on 3 separate occasions. I would be surprised if anyone else that has accomplished that is NOT in the HHOF.

If he doesn't get that Cup, I think he could someone that waits a long time to get in but maybe does eventually.

No-one else has the Hart resume he has and is not in.
No-one has the points and point-per-game finishes he has and is not in.
No-one has the 3, 5 or 7 year primes he has had and is not in.

I mean, if he does not get in he replaces Turgeon, Naslund and Paul Thompson as pretty much the best fwds not in.

 

[Appleyard]

I believe he makes the HHoF... but, for argument sake, let's say he doesn't... Looking st past similar circumstances with Flyers long-term Stats Leaders; IIRC Barber and Howe didn't have their Numbers Retired until gettig in ryhe HHoF... Propp, with his great Stats... that were above Giroux's for so any years, before he eclipsed them, still hasn't had his Number Retired... Lindros Number was Retired immediately upon making the Hall.

Rightly or wrongly, G may have to make the Hall to reach the Rafters... but this may well be a moot point... Giroux IS going to do it... but it may take a little while; just look how Recchi, with his Stats and three Cups had to wait.

JMO

I think the difference between Giroux and Recchi is Giroux just had a better peak and prime:

Giroux:

Hart finishes: 3, 4, 4
Point finishes: 2, 3, 3, 10
P/GP finishes: 2, 6, 7

Recchi:

Hart finishes: 6, 9
Point finishes: 3, 4, 5, 10
P/GP finishes: 4, 6, 10

Recchi was arguably never a top 5 NHL fwd... Giroux certainly was.

 

[Sawdalite]

I think the difference between Giroux and Recchi is Giroux just had a better peak and prime:

Giroux:

Hart finishes: 3, 4, 4
Point finishes: 2, 3, 3, 10
P/GP finishes: 2, 6, 7

Recchi:

Hart finishes: 6, 9
Point finishes: 3, 4, 5, 10
P/GP finishes: 4, 6, 10

Recchi was arguably never a top 5 NHL fwd... Giroux certainly was.

What we have to factor in, as I see it, is Recchi's complete body of work vs all other NHL Player-All-Time... Rex currently stands #6 in GP, #21 in G, #15 in A, #12 on Pts... this among all the NHL Greats that have ever played... We are not looking at a Decade Span... These Stats/Rankings is what made me suggest that getting into the HHoF may take a while to accomplish. Personally, I'd have made Recchi a First Ballot Inductee.

Recchi vs Giroux To-Date:

GP 1,652/878
G 577/251
A 956/533
PTS 1,533/809

Of course Giroux has Stats to add... but quite a way to go to reach Rex.

Again, my point was merely that Recchi took a little while to get Inducted... even with those Stats.

 

[Appleyard]

Cant be too many really... no other immediately jump to mind in recent memory.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Cant be too many really... no other immediately jump to mind in recent memory.

For some reason my mind jumps to Semin but I'm doubtful he played a majority at each?

 

[pit]

For some reason my mind jumps to Semin but I'm doubtful he played a majority at each?

Probably not, but he did play the elusive fourth forward position: bongos.

 

[Appleyard]

 

[baudib1]

You will be derided as a blasphemer, but sure. I think Clarke warrants enough of an edge defensively that he's clearly better but I don't think there's a real argument to be made that Clarke is much superior, if at all, as an offensive player.

 

[Appleyard]

You will be derided as a blasphemer, but sure. I think Clarke warrants enough of an edge defensively that he's clearly better but I don't think there's a real argument to be made that Clarke is much superior, if at all, as an offensive player.

Oh yeh, Clarke is basically nasty Bergeron with ~Giroux prime offence. Which if in todays NHL would also be pretty much best player in the league, or damn close to it.

 

[Appleyard]

 

[Striiker]

Based on his quality of play, he should be over P/PG this year.

... but that damn PP and just pure terrible luck.

 

[Appleyard]

 

[Appleyard]

 

[Striiker]

Is that supposed to say “decade” or “career”?

 

[Appleyard]

Is that supposed to say “decade” or “career”?

Haha. Career.

 

[Striiker]

Haha. Career.

Ok gotcha. Just wasn’t sure because they all also did it in a single decade, so it could have been either one.

 

[Appleyard]

 

[Striiker]

Clarke didn't suck.

 

[Rebels57]

Clarke was an absolute animal

10 × Top 10 Hart Finishes

I wonder where that ranks all-time?

 

[Appleyard]

Clarke was an absolute animal

10 × Top 10 Hart Finishes

I wonder where that ranks all-time?

Highly. This is *close* to a complete list of everyone with 5+ (might have missed 1-2 with 5)

Howe: 19x (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7)
Gretzky: 12x (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Clarke: 10x (1, 1, 1, 2, 4, 6, 6, 8, 10, 10)
Bobby Hull: 10x (1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5, 7)
Lemieux: 9x (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Ovechkin: 9x (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 6, 6, 7, 9)
Orr: 9x (1, 1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 6)
Beliveau: 9x (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4)
Crosby: 9x (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 5, 6)
Shore: 8x (1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 5)
Jagr: 8x (1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 7)
Bourque: 8x (2, 2, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, 10)
Brodeur: 8x (3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 8)
Hall: 8x (3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8)
Mikita: 7x (1, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Richard: 7x (1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 8)
Kelly: 7x (2, 3, 3, 4, 8, 9, 10)
T. Esposito: 7x (2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 9)
Potvin: 7x (2, 4, 7, 7, 9, 9, 9)
Yzerman: 7x (3, 4, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8)
Morenz: 6x (1, 1, 1, 2, 6, 7)
P. Esposito: 6x (1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 6)
Lafleur: 6x (1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Hasek: 6x (1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 8)
Schmidt: 6x (1, 2, 4, 4, 5, 8)
Kennedy: 6x (1, 2, 5, 5, 5, 7)
Thornton: 6x (1, 4, 5, 5, 6, 9)
Dionne: 6x (2, 3, 3, 5, 8, 9)
Bossy: 6x (3, 4, 6, 6, 7, 10)
Lidstrom: 6x (4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Trottier: 5x (1, 2, 2, 3, 5)
Bathgate: 5x (1, 2, 3, 5, 8)
Lindros: 5x (1, 3, 6, 9, 9)
Kane: 5x (1, 6, 6, 7, 8)
Sakic: 5x (1, 6, 7, 7, 8)
Roy: 5x (2, 3, 4, 5, 5)
Harvey: 5x (2, 3, 5, 5, 5)
Sawchuk: 5x (3, 4, 4, 4, 7)
Selanne: 5x (3, 5, 5, 6, 9)
Sittler: 5x (3, 8, 9, 9, 9)

 

[FadeToBlack]

Not sure where to put this, so I'll say it here. In his last 25 playoff games, G has 1 goal, 8 assists and is a -13.

That is unacceptable from your Captain and $8m salary a year guy.

 

[GKJ]

3 in 32 games and 1 was an empty net. That covers the entire post-Lavy/Briere era.

 

[Striiker]

It's only unacceptable if you ignore context.

The first 6 games of that sample was when he was injured, the next six games were just a disaster for the whole team thanks to Hakstol doing stupid things, the next 3 are worthless because they were treated as exhibition games and after a 5 month break, and then these last 10 have been mostly a mixture of trash coaching and trash luck.

He's played well enough to deserve far more points than he has, especially this year, and those lack of points don't make the good play magically disappear. All he can do is play well himself... but he can't control the coaches mistakes, the play of his teammates, or the play of the opponents. There's far too many outside factors to be able to strictly look at points and think that tells the whole story.

As I showed a little while back, his scoring chances have stayed roughly the same all throughout his playoffs career, with the exception of that injured year. But sometimes good play doesn't get rewarded and he's not able to control his teammates or coaches.

 

[FadeToBlack]

It's only unacceptable if you ignore context.

The first 6 games of that sample was when he was injured, the next six games were just a disaster for the whole team thanks to Hakstol doing stupid things, the next 3 are worthless because they were treated as exhibition games and after a 5 month break, and then these last 10 have been mostly a mixture of trash coaching and trash luck.

He's played well enough to deserve far more points than he has, especially this year, and those lack of points don't make the good play magically disappear. All he can do is play well himself... but he can't control the coaches mistakes, the play of his teammates, or the play of the opponents. There's far too many outside factors to be able to strictly look at points and think that tells the whole story.

Blah blah blah blah.

If you have to make excuses for him, he aint doing his job.