Classic Wrestling Discussion (as in non-current): Part II

[Oil Dude]

Woof 99 was bad.

Sorry to interrupt the Rumble-thon. Just figured since the 2016 Rumble will now be the 2nd Rumble where the title is on the line, made sense for me to go rewatch 92.

WWE has unwittingly, and EXTREMELY unfairly put the 2016 up against 92, and asked Roman to do a iron man to win the title that is going to fall utterly short of Flair's performance. Almost feel bad for the guy.

I do hope that the stipulation gets lots of new and younger fans to spend time and watch this marvel. And learn why Flair is a hall of famer in the same breath (because old man Flair on TV isn't helping).'

I think my favorite moment is when the ring is clear, and then Piper is next and Flair immediately hits the mat in his begging position. ****ing PERFECT

Ric Flair could use his biggest strength (selling) to his advantage in the Rumble , watching it live you truly believed that it was a matter of time before he was tossed (you had to suspend belief a little).

Roman's strength is well his strength. I would not buy any wrestler cutting through the entire roster , throwing people out is his other strength and this rumble he could very well beat his own record.

Fans are going to turn on Reigns even more , which is too bad actually because I think if he was booked properly he actually isn't that bad .

 

[Loosie]

Ok so I'm watching the post '96 Rumble Monday Night Raw. I wasn't watching RAW at the time as we didn't get yet, but we at least got something on the weekend as a 'recap' I think it was still called 'Maple Leaf Wrestling' at the time.

I remember Vader attacking Gorilla Monsoon, but I've seen the full segment before. I marked out for Monsoon standing up to Vader and chopping him. I've never gone back far enough to watch Monsoon in action, my only exposure to him was as a commentator and then interim President. I know he was a former wrestler but just never saw him wrestle. It was nice to see Monsoon get his licks in, and instead of building up to a nostalgia match they just had Vader beat him senseless to build him as a monster.

Unfortunately McMahon was having his Michaels hard-on in 96 so Vader was fed to Michaels ruining him in the WWF.

 

[Engebretson]

Ok, so this isn't exactly classic, but I went back and re-watched the SummerSlam match between Cena and Rollins from this past year. That match was ridiculous and the Cena marks aren't going to like this, but 98% of the reason the match was so great was because of Seth Rollins. Seth Rollins' performance is absolutely how you should book a top tier talent in the modern WWE and, up until the finish, it appeared that Rollins had just as much chance (if not more) to win the match as Cena. Rollins', in this match, actually reminded me of Punk's performance in the 2011 MITB match against Cena. You have Cena doing his usual Cena shtick and this other guy breaking out everything in his arsenal to put him away with Cena somehow enduring the barrage during the length of the match. I brought up the 2011 MITB match, because just like Punk, Rollins never looked like a heel in this match, which makes the ending so much more confusing/infuriating.

Rollins was absolutely firing on all cylinders (the Blockbuster, the double stomp in the Tree of Woe, the Frog's Splash, the Falcon's Arrow, the Phoenix Splash) and was booked to end up with the win, yet they had to dust off the old WWE playbook and protect their golden boy with a finish that was completely unnecessary. You have Stewart turn on Cena with a chairshot to the gut which allowed Rollins to hit a pedigree onto the chair for both titles. What the actual ****, Vince? Seth Rollins just grabbed more brass rings in that one match than Roman Reigns has in his entire career, yet you decide that Cena needs to be protected by a non-wrestler turning on him with a chairshot and the WWE Champion using his finishing move on a chair to get a three count on Cena. This should have been the moment that stapled Seth Rollins as a true main eventer, yet they used an ending that overshadowed Rollins' effort in that match which is just unacceptable for a company that claims that they are building for the future.

Now, I'm going to go on a little bit of a tangent, but Cena really annoyed me in this match. I'm not known to be a Cena fan, but I just didn't feel like he did anything more than taking what Rollins was dishing out. I think I gave myself a headache when I rolled my eyes after seeing Cena no-sell the Frog Splash. Most of my problem with Cena involves how he's booked during most of his matches because I just don't think he's believable which is not something you should be doing in the current incarnation of pro wrestling. Yes, you'll have to suspend disbelief to some extent, but Cena slaps you in the face with it. Vince needs to figure out that this isn't the 80's anymore when you could trot out Hogan every night and have him pull this no-sell crap with the crowd eating it up. People eat up guys like Brock Lesnar because he's a believable badass. They watch a guy like Seth Rollins because he does things that make you drop your jaw and actively wonder what else he's going to try next. That's just why I've never been drawn to Cena, because he's more fiction than non-fiction, and I'm willing to bet there are a good chunk of people that boo him for the same reasons. Cena wasn't horrible by any means in this match, but this was the Seth Rollins Show and the ending of the match should have reflected that.

"Seth Rollins has made history thanks to Jon Stewart"

**** you, Mitchell Cole.

***Sorry, this ended up turning into more of a Cena rant than a commentary on the match, but it just made me mad to see the match unfold like it did.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

My entire rating for that match at the time was because of Rollins' performance. He stole the show.

 

[Kimi]

Was amazing. Rollins default setting really. Shame some random nobody be there and to ruin it.

 

[ColePens]

Was watching the 2005 Royal Rumble and noticed that Jim Ross said "Stinger Splash" as (i forget who) went into the corner with Sting's move. Kind of surprised to hear that said in the WWE at the time because Stinger was still about 9 years from arriving.

Pretty solid Rumble, though.

 

[Reality Check]

Considering the title is on the line this year. 92 Rumble should be required viewing before anyone watches this year. So they all know how it is supposed to be done.

It's still the greatest Rumble alone to this date. If only because of the commentary from Heenan.

I rented the Owen Hart DVD and finished only disk 3 so far. I forgot all about that Dungeon match with Shamrock. Shame they booked such a crappy ending...likely to set up the Shamrock-Severn feud that no one would care about.

Plus, I got to relive Owen's awesome theme:

 

[bruins309]

Did a writeup on the 2000 Rumble from MSG, which I didn't like as much as I did when I watched it last year.

http://section309.com/2016/01/17/2000rumble/

- How booking tricks and Rikishi saved the match, and why it was necessary
- What was everyone's problem with Test? Guys went after him on entry like he was 1992 Ric Flair.
- We complain about Roman being booked too strong, but cousin Rock wasn't made to look that great here.
- Remember how cool Kane was at one time? He did more in six minutes here than just about anyone else.
- My general amusement at the antics of the Big Bossman
- I spent over an hour trying to make a GIF of the Taka Michinoku exit where he lands on his face, and I botched it and just decided to leave it in the article.
- Why you need to watch Pete Gas in his 2nd run-in.

Got something coming on Bam Bam Bigelow from 1988 later today, and I am also way behind on Saturday Night's Main Event from 1986, a year when you really see strides in the presentation as it appeared on TV. When I get to October 1986, I might have to disgress into how the Richfield Coliseum (which hosted that SNME, and the first two Survivor Series) has one of the weirdest histories of any arena in death.

 

[Loosie]

But the People’s Champ grabs the rope and hangs on while Show falls over and hits the floor, leaving Rock as the winner. I am very glad they didn’t go the dual winners; that is rumored to be what they may have wanted since Show ended up in the Mania main event anyway.

They ran with a 'Rock's feet touched first' including 'fuzzy' Polaroids and Jim Dotson (RIP) saying he "thinks" Rock's feet "may" have touched first.

So they had a match at No Way Out to see who would be in the WM Main Event, and had Big Show win with Shane turning on the Rock. (Of course we also had HHH 'retire' Foley in that amazing main event HIAC match)

So it went from HHH vs. Rock to HHH vs. Big Show, to a triple threat to a Four-Way elimination match with a McMahon in Every Corner!(tm), in which Big Show and Foley lasted like 10 minutes, and we finally had a 30 minute Rock/HHH match as it should have been from the start.

(and yes Pete Gas bled all over the place at WM2000)

 

[bruins309]

They ran with a 'Rock's feet touched first' including 'fuzzy' Polaroids and Jim Dotson (RIP) saying he "thinks" Rock's feet "may" have touched first.

So they had a match at No Way Out to see who would be in the WM Main Event, and had Big Show win with Shane turning on the Rock. (Of course we also had HHH 'retire' Foley in that amazing main event HIAC match)

So it went from HHH vs. Rock to HHH vs. Big Show, to a triple threat to a Four-Way elimination match with a McMahon in Every Corner!(tm), in which Big Show and Foley lasted like 10 minutes, and we finally had a 30 minute Rock/HHH match as it should have been from the start.

(and yes Pete Gas bled all over the place at WM2000)

Thanks for that because I definitely need a refresher since around 2000 things start getting a little foggy. I watched 2001 today and loved it, what a great match to start, middle and finish. Anyone here age 25 and under: Kane was cool once. No seriously, he was. It's also funny to see R-Truth in a prior life as K-Kwik in there taking all these big moves, like how Crash Holly did in 2000 and Doug Gilbert in 1996. They need a guy in there like that every year, a disposable guy to make others look good.

The way I am going to do writeups on these Rumbles is this: 2001 and 2002 this week, then probably skip to the 2014 debacle later on. As the memory of the era gets worse, the harder it is to write something worthwhile.

Feel free to rip on me for my ridiculous football playoff picks too....i started the playoffs 1-6-1 and actually am now earnestly picking games then rooting against them.

 

[Loosie]

I still vividly remember Scotty 2 Hotty's reaction to being the first guy to come out after Taker and Kane cleared the ring.

 

[bruins309]

I still vividly remember Scotty 2 Hotty's reaction to being the first guy to come out after Taker and Kane cleared the ring.

Here is Scotty's POV at that moment.

I wish I knew about these tidbits when I wrote the 1996 Rumble thing: They had plans for Sabu and the boxer Peter McNeely to be in the match. Those didnt happen but may explain the random Doug Gilbert spot.

 

[bruins309]

Today is the anniversary of the 1991 and 1992 Rumbles, so Happy Martel/Flair Day!

Posted the 2001 match late last night which was also excellent and close to that 1992 level.

Bam Bam Bigelow had a very interesting 1988, quitting WWF mid-year, jumping to New Japan, then to WCW, then back to Japan at the end of the year. All after blowing out his knee against Dino Bravo because nothing good ever happened with Bravo around.

 

[bruins309]

Did a Rick Martel Youtube tour yesterday, watching 3 matches:

- Match with him and Tito Santana from Nov. 1990 on Challenge. They were still referencing the breakup of Strike Force on commentary some 19 months later and how could they not since Tito just refused to stop wearing those trunks. Not a long match, ends with a Jake the Snake run-in during his "blind" period. Really loved the beginning with Martel displaying some amateur chops and getting all uppity about it.

- Rewind back to babyface Martel vs Mr. Perfect from February 1989 in Hamilton, Ontario. This was a good match, but only went about 10 minutes to a draw which seems like too short of a time limit. Martel had just returned from time off in the 2nd half of 1988 to care for his ailing wife, because he's actually a human being unlike many in the biz at the time. Martel as the fired up babyface was always good, but 1989 was a good time to turn him. Putting him with Slick up front though was an awkward play that just didn't fit.

- Flip the script: Heel Martel in 1993 on RAW against babyface Mr. Perfect. This was during the build to Mania 9 and has Rob Bartlett on commentary. Man, I forgot how unfunny he was literally every time he spoke making the very early RAWs mostly unwatchable. This is another good one here, Martel works over Perfect's back because that works in psychology given Hennig's longstanding back issues. They cut to commercial....and the MATCH ENDS DURING THE BREAK, with Perfect winning the the P-Plex.

If Martel goes into the HOF this year, I swear I am going to throw a party for no reason and not tell anybody why.

 

[Loosie]

I loved the fact the for any Rumble post Strike Force no matter how long after if Tito and Martel were in the ring at the same time they always went after each other.

 

[bruins309]

The 2002 Rumble post is up now. I'm going to stop on the Rumbles there, and jump ahead hopefully to 2014/15 over this weekend and will do a 2016 version also.

About 2002:
- My general dislike for Triple H at the time
- A fun moment in the match like Maven had can be enough to actually be remembered
- Steve Austin's last hurrah, and he channels some of his best 1997 stuff
- It's amazing to watch something like this and enjoy Kane and Big Show interacting like they did since those two guys took a crap all over the 2015 Rumble
- Austin and HHH's weird deal in this match where they traded offense evenly and then later helped each other when possible.

 

[Engebretson]

The 2002 Rumble post is up now.

Mixed emotions about [HHH's Return at MSG in 2002]: while I’m glad he was able to overcome serious injury, HHH went on to bury so many people in the ensuing years that I think everyone in that MSG crowd could theoretically be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

Gold

 

[Emperoreddy]

I still vividly remember Scotty 2 Hotty's reaction to being the first guy to come out after Taker and Kane cleared the ring.

They booked Kane so damn strong in the 2001 Rumble. It is also the Rumble I remember the most for having very VERY clear segments (and funny enough Kane was always involved). The hardcore segment, jobber segment, main event segment.

I did laugh at the brothers staring down Scotty 2 Hotty. Was this the one that started with the Hardy's doing the "brothers" spot before fighting for a bit?

2000 was such an over booked mess and its a shame we never got a proper HHH/Rock WM main event as those two were putting on excellent matches at the height of their feud (Iron Man, Backlash that same year). They just seemed convinced Show was a star and put the rocket on his back, and Foley was crazy over.

Plus I think this was when Vince was letting the infighting with the McMahans really start to overshadow the in ring stories. Got worse in 2001. All the nonsense with Linda in the coma and Vince cheating with Trish. Just WAY to much. Of course it kept going as I think this was one of the MANY reasons the invasion storyline failed so insanely.

 

[bruins309]

By no means is this "classic wrestling" but I just watched the 2014 Rumble for my project and uh...wow, that was a thing that happened. It's not underwhelming because Bryan isn't there, it just seemed rather disjointed all the way though with very little thought put into it. The first two guys were there past when #30 got there which is kind of notable, but was an afterthought.

An aside: that match brought me to HF Wrestling in the first place because I wanted to read as much as I could about the Punk departure the next day. My writeup on this is probably going to be my eulogy for CM Punk in wrestling, even though his career spanned a time where I really didn't watch.

Credit to WWE Network for not editing down the crowd noise. When they pulled that with Hogan/Sid in 1992 on the ensuing syndicated TV I was pretty incensed.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I watched the entire 1990 Royal Rumble show last night. Absolutely loved the undercard matches:

- Bushwhackers vs Fabulous Rougeau Brothers
- Valentine vs Garvin in a submission match
- Genius vs Barber Beefcake
- Hacksaw vs Bossman
- Brother Love segment featuring the 2 WWF Divas of 1990

The actual Royal Rumble was awesome, less the Hogan ending. Going to re-read Broons309 take on it.

 

[bruins309]

The actual Royal Rumble was awesome, less the Hogan ending. Going to re-read Broons309 take on it.

The 90 match was pretty good, and I liked Jesse and Tony on the call. Lots of stuff going on and that was the year Pat Patterson hit his stride designing the match, pairing up feuds properly and giving heels a shine like with DiBiase. A heel needed the win to build them up for Warrior, but that's just not how they did things. It was short-sighted.

I legitimately cannot believe I have written 16 of those things now. Laughing at how insane that is. At least I left 2003-2013 for next year.

Level of enjoyment rankings for the 16 I did watch/review:

1. 1992
2. 1997
3. 2001
4. 1998
5. 1991
6. 1990
7. 2002
8. 1993
9. 2000
10. 1989
11. 1994
12. 1996
13. 1988
14. 1995 (well, at least it was only 37 minutes long)
15. 2014
16. 1999

 

[GB]

I watched the entire 1990 Royal Rumble show last night. Absolutely loved the undercard matches:

- Bushwhackers vs Fabulous Rougeau Brothers
- Valentine vs Garvin in a submission match
- Genius vs Barber Beefcake
- Hacksaw vs Bossman
- Brother Love segment featuring the 2 WWF Divas of 1990

The actual Royal Rumble was awesome, less the Hogan ending. Going to re-read Broons309 take on it.

That was the first WWF tape I ever rented. I pretty much fell in love with DiBiase during that Rumble.

 

[bruins309]

I'm taking a short break from the long form stuff after I eventually do a 2016 Rumble writeup tomorrow while I try to figure out something to do leading up to Wrestlemania.

Right now I'm watching WM3, a show which I can't criticize in any way. Bob Uecker is the greatest celebrity ever at Mania and it's not close for me. I'd love to see him interact with Kevin Owens now since that was the name of his son on Mr. Belvedere. Eh, on second thought maybe only I'd appreciate that one.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I watched the entire 1990 Royal Rumble show last night. Absolutely loved the undercard matches:

- Bushwhackers vs Fabulous Rougeau Brothers
- Valentine vs Garvin in a submission match
- Genius vs Barber Beefcake
- Hacksaw vs Bossman
- Brother Love segment featuring the 2 WWF Divas of 1990

The actual Royal Rumble was awesome, less the Hogan ending. Going to re-read Broons309 take on it.

Genius' heel game was in full force in that match. Highly entertaining.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Finished Royal Rumble 91. Took a few days as I have been a little busy lately, but watched the RR in its entirety last night. Another great show:

- The Rockers vs Orient Express
- Bossman vs Barbarian
- Sgt Slaughter vs Ultimate Warrior for the WWF championship
- Dibiase & Virgil vs Dusty & Dustin Rhodes
- The Mountee vs Koko B Ware
- A Hogan-won but Martel-led Royal Rumble

I'll again defer to Broons309's excellent review. http://section309.com/2015/12/13/1991-royal-rumble-match/ You really cannot say enough about Martel who went 53 minutes WITHOUT any naps (unpossible, says Reigns). I did want to follow up with one comment said by B309:

Gorilla does his “it takes 15 minutes for the Hammer to get warmed up†bit which I never understood since he rarely had 15 minute matches in WWF. I suppose it was a way of putting over his toughness and Hammer had now been in for well over a half hour by now.

This wasn't the only time they put over Valentine's toughness endurance threshold. Jesse put him over I believe on a SNME match when he said: "the longer this match goes, the tougher Valentine gets." I actually used that quote in my mind quite frequently in a bike race I did that involved climbing over a dozen (very) steep hills. It was always good for like a 10-15 second power burst before feeling miserable again.