CL Round of 8

[Deficient Mode]

It's more ridiculous by far to suggest that Milan in 2005 were on par with some of the teams we've seen from Madrid or Barca since then. They certainly had some great players, but they simply weren't close to as good. Nearly lost to PSV in the semifinals, and their domestic point pace and goal differentials that year were closer to this year's Liverpool and well below either of the Manchester clubs.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Buffon at his best was not as good as Neuer but for a new millennium team I almost put him in simply because he has been fantastic over the entire window pretty much. I would also put him over Casillas.

Neuer revolutionized the position for sure and he’s easily the best sweeper keeper of all time. But I’d still say Buffon at his best is better than Neuer. Neuer may impact the game more as a whole, but in pure terms of keeping the ball out of the net, no one has done that as well as Buffon over the last ~20 years.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Nuer is to goalies what Messi is to outfield players. Slight hyperbole but yes he's the best of the last 20 years.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Nuer is to goalies what Messi is to outfield players. Slight hyperbole but yes he's the best of the last 20 years.

I feel like Neuer is more like the Bobby Orr of his generation. Completely changed and reveloutionized the position he played while also being the best.
Except for Buffon lol.

 

[Cassano]

Yikes completely forgot Nesta. Best defender I've seen.

 

[Savant]

Gerrard and Busquets should both be in. Take away someone from another position group.

 

[Evilo]

Still don't see how anyone can put up a team without Ronaldino.
Ronaldo and Messi are both in as well.
I'd put Busquets, Maldini, Buffon, Lahm and Iniesta as obvious as well. Rest is debatable. Pique, Thiago Silva, Xavi, Ibra are all worthy candidates.

 

[Evilo]

Also Henry and Zidane (arguably since he's had half of his career in the 90s , half in the 00s).
Vieira is also a good candidate. More so than Gerrard IMO. Euro 00. WC 06. Incredible performances.

 

[YNWA14]

Gerrard was incredible and I honestly don't know how people could leave him out of a UEFA best XI. Especially since as an individual he put in some of the best performances out there from midfield. Many considered him the best midfielder in the world at various points. I'm not going to delve into quotes but man...

...and just for some perspective, when Liverpool won the CL these were the teams (mind Liverpool especially changed during the game):

Liverpool
Dudek
Finnan - Carragher - Hyppia - Traore
Garcia - Gerrard - Alonso - Riise
Kewell
Baros

Milan
Dida
Cafu - Stam - Nesta - Maldini
Pirlo
Gattuso - Seedorf
Kaka
Shevchenko - Crespo
​

Also lol at the idea that that AC Milan wasn't stacked top to bottom, especially relative to the era.

​

Vieira is also a good candidate. More so than Gerrard IMO. Euro 00. WC 06. Incredible performances.

Not an overly surprising opinion.

 

[Ivan13]

How can people leave out Gerard? Easily I reckon. Also, the only people thinking he is was at any time the best midfielder in the world are those who probably follow only the EPL, and weren't aware a guy like Pirlo existed.

Also, Viera > Gerard quite easily.

 

[Cassano]

Vieira is also a good candidate. More so than Gerrard IMO. Euro 00. WC 06. Incredible performances.

He was embarrassed by an 18 year old Fabregas in 2006.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Also lol at the idea that that AC Milan wasn't stacked top to bottom, especially relative to the era.

Relative to the era is the key phrase. Far easier for an underdog to win then. Porto won the year before.

​

 

[YNWA14]

Relative to the era is the key phrase. Far easier for an underdog to win then. Porto won the year before.

That AC Milan team could certainly challenge for the CL today. Their XI is just as good if not better than some of the winners of the last decade.

Not to mention doesn't that only strengthen the argument for some of those players of the 2000s? Most of the 'stars' (Busquets for example) have been playing on stacked teams their entire careers with some of the best structure and coaches in the modern game.

How can people leave out Gerard? Easily I reckon. Also, the only people thinking he is was at any time the best midfielder in the world are those who probably follow only the EPL, and weren't aware a guy like Pirlo existed.

Also, Viera > Gerard quite easily.

Vieira himself said that Gerrard was probably better than him. Countless players, coaches and non 'EPL-fans' also shared the sentiment that Gerrard was at the very least among the greatest. Anyway, pointless to argue. I'm sure you could make the same argument that anyone that doesn't think Gerrard was among the best midfielders in the world didn't watch him play.

 

[Live in the Now]

Lots of Vieira's greatness was in a different decade. He was in less teams of the year and those are voted on by players. I will just copy the whole list here most appearances in the FIFPro World XI

1	Lionel Messi	11	2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017	Barcelona
Cristiano Ronaldo	11	2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017	Manchester United, Real Madrid
3	Andrés Iniesta	9	2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017	Barcelona
4	Sergio Ramos	8	2008, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017	Real Madrid
5	Dani Alves	7	2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017	Barcelona, Juventus, Paris Saint-Germain
6	Xavi	6	2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013	Barcelona
7	John Terry	5	2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009	Chelsea
Iker Casillas	5	2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012	Real Madrid
9	Gerard Piqué	4	2010, 2011, 2012, 2016	Barcelona
Marcelo	4	2012, 2015, 2016, 2017	Real Madrid
Manuel Neuer	4	2013, 2014, 2015, 2016	Bayern Munich
12	Ronaldinho	3	2005, 2006, 2007	Barcelona
Kaká	3	2006, 2007, 2008	Milan
Gianluigi Buffon	3	2006, 2007, 2017	Juventus
Steven Gerrard	3	2007, 2008, 2009	Liverpool
Carles Puyol	3	2007, 2008, 2010	Barcelona
Thiago Silva	3	2013, 2014, 2015	Paris Saint-Germain
Toni Kroos	3	2014, 2016, 2017	Bayern Munich, Real Madrid
Luka Modrić	3	2015, 2016, 2017	Real Madrid

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Deficient Mode]

That AC Milan team could certainly challenge for the CL today. Their XI is just as good if not better than some of the winners of the last decade.

Not to mention doesn't that only strengthen the argument for some of those players of the 2000s? Most of the 'stars' (Busquets for example) have been playing on stacked teams their entire careers with some of the best structure and coaches in the modern game.​

"Challenge" in the sense that they'd be a healthy underdog to Madrid or Barca, sure. They won Serie A once and finished second another time with Kaka at the club. The names on paper sound legendary in retrospect. but in reality the peak years of those Milan players don't really match up.

It really doesn't. Most of the stars of the last 10 years have been part of the equation in building a superstar team, and their candidacy for inclusion doesn't rest on having won one match against a superior opponent. Someone like Gerrard wouldn't have fit as seamlessly and perfectly into a super team, either. He excelled in a free role on a good but not great team.

 

[YNWA14]

It really doesn't. Most of the stars of the last 10 years have been part of the equation in building a superstar team, and their candidacy for inclusion doesn't rest on having won one match against a superior opponent. Someone like Gerrard wouldn't have fit as seamlessly and perfectly into a super team, either. He excelled in a free role on a good but not great team.

There's no way to know how well Gerrard would have done in a superstar team. He was actually very good in 2013/14 where he didn't have a free role and was mostly subdued in his movement. Someone like Busquets wouldn't have been able to take Liverpool and win a CL with them, though, that's for sure.

Gerrard excelled with many managers and playing styles. He could play possession, attacking, counter or defensive. He was extremely versatile, had a great engine, good technique and a huge character. I'd imagine he would have excelled in any team and he certainly would have won a lot more (and we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion) if he left Liverpool to one of the massive suitors he had, rather than carrying a generally average to pretty good team for most of his career.

 

[Evilo]

He was embarrassed by an 18 year old Fabregas in 2006.

You must be mistaken.
In 2006 Vieira totally dominated Spain and eliminated them by giving one of the best performances by a midfielder in WC history.

 

[Evilo]

Gerrard was incredible and I honestly don't know how people could leave him out of a UEFA best XI. Especially since as an individual he put in some of the best performances out there from midfield. Many considered him the best midfielder in the world at various points. I'm not going to delve into quotes but man...

...and just for some perspective, when Liverpool won the CL these were the teams (mind Liverpool especially changed during the game):

Liverpool
Dudek
Finnan - Carragher - Hyppia - Traore
Garcia - Gerrard - Alonso - Riise
Kewell
Baros

Milan
Dida
Cafu - Stam - Nesta - Maldini
Pirlo
Gattuso - Seedorf
Kaka
Shevchenko - Crespo
​

Also lol at the idea that that AC Milan wasn't stacked top to bottom, especially relative to the era.

​

Not an overly surprising opinion.

Indeed. An EPL and Liverpool fan licking Gerrard's ass and saying he was considered to be the best mf in the game by many .

Surprising.

 

[Deficient Mode]

There's no way to know how well Gerrard would have done in a superstar team. He was actually very good in 2013/14 where he didn't have a free role and was mostly subdued in his movement. Someone like Busquets wouldn't have been able to take Liverpool and win a CL with them, though, that's for sure.

Gerrard excelled with many managers and playing styles. He could play possession, attacking, counter or defensive. He was extremely versatile, had a great engine, good technique and a huge character. I'd imagine he would have excelled in any team and he certainly would have won a lot more (and we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion) if he left Liverpool to one of the massive suitors he had, rather than carrying a generally average to pretty good team for most of his career.

Sure there is. It's not that hard to project.

Someone like Gerrard wouldn't have made Barcelona a better team like Busquets did, either. I'll take the player who performs a limited role at an exceptional level over a guy who does everything at a very good level.

 

[Cassano]

You must be mistaken.
In 2006 Vieira totally dominated Spain and eliminated them by giving one of the best performances by a midfielder in WC history.

Oh I thought we were discussing Champions League teams since Curt posted the best UCL XI.

Edit: Ooops, just realized it's UEFA. In that case, I'd definitely rank Vieira ahead of Gerrard.

 

[Live in the Now]

Indeed. An EPL and Liverpool fan licking Gerrard's ass and saying he was considered to be the best mf in the game by many .

Surprising.

Football: Zinedine Zidane believes Liverpool's Steven Gerrard is currently the best player in the world

“It was a disgrace he didn’t win European Footballer of the Year after Istanbul in 2005 and, for me, he will be regarded as one of the greatest midfielders of all time when he finishes.” - Henry

“What I have always liked of Steven is that on the pitch he was very quiet, but was capable of inspiring all his teammates with great strength, not so much with words. The real example – and that is what I’ve learned from players like Steven and Franco Baresi – is to do rather than talk.

"And he was indeed one who did a lot and since he also had great talent, he was easy to follow. His story is one of those stories to be told, one of those fairytales, to be narrated to your children and grandchildren.” - Maldini

“In my opinion he’s in the top three midfielders in the world, maybe the best right now. I heard what Alex Ferguson said about him being better than me. He’s probably right. Gerrard is England’s best player and he single-handedly got Liverpool into the Champions League.

"He is the complete player. He can score, he has a great final ball, he can tackle and he drives his team forward. He is a winner on the pitch, which is why I really admire him.” - Vieira

“Steven Gerrard would be the captain of my World XI dream team. Gerrard is a complete player because he can play in every position and can do everything with a football at any time in a game. He’s a player who scores goals, who builds the play, he’s a sensational player.” - Totti

"While at Milan he Ancelotti came to me and said, 'I want to sign Steven Gerrard to play next to you in midfield – what do you think?' Without any hesitation I told him, 'Do it – go and sign him.' At this stage he was probably the most complete midfield player in Europe, of course I wanted to partner him.

"I remember asking Carlo a few weeks later how it was going, and he told me Gerrard had given a very firm no, that his bond with Liverpool was unbreakable. At the time Milan were the champions of Europe and probably had the best team in the world – it says a lot about Gerrard’s loyalty." - Pirlo

"For me, and I have always said this, he will be regarded as one of the greatest midfielders ever when he finishes his career. No doubt." - Kaka

I made sure not to quote any Englishmen. There are lots of people who said that.

Curt says a lot of dumb stuff, but please. It's hardly an uncommon opinion.

 

[YNWA14]

Sure there is. It's not that hard to project.

Someone like Gerrard wouldn't have made Barcelona a better team like Busquets did, either. I'll take the player who performs a limited role at an exceptional level over a guy who does everything at a very good level.

I would suggest watching more of him if you hold this opinion then. Gerrard was exceptional on many levels, and was a very versatile player at that (and definitely not in the 'jack of all trades but master of none way'). It might help with your 'projection'.

 

[The Abusement Park]

While Gerrard is great and easily one of the best midfielders of his time I wouldn’t put him in my best 11 of the century considering it’s still arguable that Scholes and Lampard could be better midfielders than him. #hottakes

 

[Live in the Now]

Ronaldinho was probably better even though he wasn't at the top for as long. Lampard was definitely not better.

 

[Cassano]

While Gerrard is great and easily one of the best midfielders of his time I wouldn’t put him in my best 11 of the century considering it’s still arguable that Scholes and Lampard could be better midfielders than him. #hottakes

Is it really a hot-take? I think a vast majority would take Scholes over him.