GWT: CL Match Day 5

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by East Coast Bias, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Obviously.
    But if Liverpool wins 1-0 and PSG ties (the scenario we're talking about), I think that means PSG is through. And Liverpool.
     
  2. hatterson

    hatterson Registered User

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    I’m pretty sure that’s right after looking at it briefly.

    Liverpool would be #1 on points (6v5v5). From there, PSG and Napoli are level on goal difference among the three teams but PSG would have 3 away goals (2 at Liverpool, 1 at Napoli) and Napoli would only have 2 (both at PSG).


    I’ll run the full tie breakers later tonight and put together the clinch/elimination post.
     
  3. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    RMC sport says PSG qualifies if :
    1/ they win in Belgrade.
    2/ they tie and Napoli loses 4-3, 5-4, 6-5, etc...
    3/ they lose and Napoli wins.
     
  4. hatterson

    hatterson Registered User

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    So elimination and clinching scenarios. These should be accurate, let me know if you notice a mistake (specially in Group C)

    Group A
    Atletico Madrid -
    Clinched R16. Will top the group with a win or Dortmund dropping points.
    Borrusia Dortmund - Clinched R16. Will top the group with a win and Atletico dropping points.
    Club Brugge - Headed to the Europa League
    Monaco - Bottom of the group.

    Group B
    Barcelona
    - Will top the group
    Tottenham - An equal or better result than Inter will send them to R16. A worse result than Inter will mean Europa league.
    Inter Milan - A better result than Spurs will move them to R16. An equal or worse result than Spurs will mean Europa league.
    PSV - Will finish bottom of group

    Group C
    This group has the most complicated scenarios by far. The only guaranteed thing is that Red Star can't move onto R16. I'm not going to list it team by team because it's so complicated, so I'll break it down by results

    If Napoli Wins and Red Star wins. Napoli will top the group (12), PSG second (8), Red Star 3rd (7), Liverpool bottom (6)
    If Napoli Wins and PSG wins or draws. Napoli will top the group (12), PSG second (9 or 11), Liverpool 3rd (6), Red Star bottom (4 or 5).
    If Napoli/Liverpool draw and PSG wins. PSG will top the group (11), Napoli second (10), Liverpool 3rd (7), Red Star bottom (4).
    If Napoli/Liverpool draw and Red Star wins or draws. Napoli will top the group (10), PSG second (8 or 9), Liverpool 3rd (7), and Red Star bottom (5 or 7 [lose head to head with Liverpool based on goal difference in common games])
    If Liverpool wins by multiple goals and PSG wins. PSG will top the group (11), Liverpool 2nd (9, head to head tie breaker with Napoli based on goal difference head to head), Napoli 3rd (9), Red Star bottom (4)
    If Liverpool wins by multiple goals and PSG loses. Liverpool will top the group (9, head to head tie breaker with Napoli based on either head to head goal difference), Napoli 2nd (9) PSG 3rd (8), Red Star bottom (7)
    If Liverpool wins by multiple goals and PSG draws. Liverpool will top the group (9, hold three way tie breaker based on points in games among the three of them, 6 vs 5 for both PSG and Napoli), PSG 2nd (9, hold the three way tie breaker over Napoli based on goal difference among the 3 [0 vs at best -1 for Napoli]), Napoli 3rd (9), Red Star bottom (5)
    If Liverpool wins 1-0 and PSG wins. PSG will top the group (11), Liverpool 2nd (9, head to head tie breaker with Napoli based on group goals for [9v7]), Napoli 3rd (9), Red Star bottom (4)
    If Liverpool wins 1-0 and PSG loses. Liverpool will top the group (9, head to head tie breaker with Napoli based group goals for [9v7]), Napoli 2nd (9) PSG 3rd (8), Red Star bottom (7)
    If Liverpool wins by a single goal 2-1 or higher and PSG wins. PSG will top the group (11), Napoli 2nd (9, head to head tie breaker with Liverpool based on head to head away goals), Napoli 3rd (9), Red Star bottom (4)
    If Liverpool wins by a single goal 2-1 or higher and PSG loses. Napoli will top the group (9, head to head tie breaker with Liverpool based on away goals in head to head [1 or more vs 0]), Liverpool 2nd (9) PSG 3rd (8), Red Star bottom (7)
    If Liverpool wins by a single goal and the score is 1-0, 2-1, or 3-2 and PSG draws. Liverpool will top the group (9, hold three way tie breaker based on points in games among the three of them, 6 vs 5 for both PSG and Napoli), PSG 2nd (9, hold the three way tie breaker over Napoli based on goals scored among the 3 [7 vs at best 6 for Napoli]), Napoli 3rd (9), Red Star bottom (5)
    If Liverpool wins by a single goal and the score is 4-3 or higher and PSG draws. Liverpool will top the group (9, hold three way tie breaker based on points in games among the three of them, 6 vs 5 for both PSG and Napoli), Napoli 2nd (9, hold the three way tie breaker over PSG based on either goals scored among the 3 [8 or higher vs 7 for PSG] or away goals scored [minimum 5 vs 3 for PSG]), PSG 3rd (9), Red Star bottom (5)

    Group D
    Porto
    - Will top the group
    Schalke - Will finish second.
    Galatasaray - Will finish 3rd with a win or Lokomotiv dropping points, bottom of Lokomotiv win and they dont.
    Lokomotiv Moscow - Will finish 3rd with a win and Galatasaray dropping points. Bottom of Galatasaray win or they don't.

    Group E
    Bayern
    - Win or draw tops the group
    Ajax - Win tops the group
    Benfica - Will be 3rd
    AEK - Will finish bottom

    Group F
    Man City
    - Clinched R16 already. Will top the group with a win or draw or Lyon dropping points.
    Lyon - Will top the group with a win and a City loss. A win or draw means R16. A loss means Europa league.
    Shakhtar Donetsk - Win and they finish 2nd. Draw and they finish 3rd. Loss and Hoffenheim win and they finish bottom.
    Hoffenheim - Win and Shakhtar loss and they finish 3rd, otherwise bottom.

    Group G
    Real Madrid
    - Will top the group.
    Roma - Will finish 2nd.
    FC Viktoria Plzen - Equal or better result than CSKA and they finish 3rd. Worse result and they finish bottom.
    CSKA Moscow - Better result than Plzen and then finish 3rd. Equal or worse and they finish bottom.

    Group H
    Juventus - Win or United dropping points and they top the group. United win and a loss/draw and they finish 2nd.
    Manchester United - Win and Juve loss/draw and they top the group. Drop points or Juve win and they finish 2nd.
    Valencia - Will finish 3rd
    Young Boys - Will finish bottom
     
  5. Power Man

    Power Man Grrrr

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  6. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Benjamin Mendy is so ****ing funny...
     
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  7. Corto

    Corto Faceless Man

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    Watched mostly Spurs-Inter last night... Can't say Spurs weren't better on balance on play, deserved it - but with VAR there, Spurs are a man down before half time for Lamela's ridiculous two-footed challenge.
    Sissoko looks to be in his EURO-2016 form and Son was a handful from the moment he came on.
    Borja Valero messed up a sitter for Inter at 0-0, could cost them.

    Then watched PSG-Liverpool on replay.
    And with VAR there, Veratti is off for his challenge on Gomez.
    That said, deserved win for PSG, Klopp might need to look beyond Fabinho and Keita to improve his midfield.
    Someone like Kovacic, for example, is a fantastic transitioning CM - and would work in Klopp's system (while he isn't necessarily a fit in a ball-possession system like Sarri's).
    I realize it's too early to "give up" on Keita and Fabinho, but it's not exactly encouraging they can't win themselves some playing time when the competition is Milner and Henderson (who give their all, but are not exactly world class midfielders).
    Also, Klopp seems to have moved his block from very high to sort of middle-of-the-pitch.
    As a result, they concede less, and their defense looks rock-solid - but they create much less in front of the opposition's goal.

    PSG looked solid, did their job, stifled Liverpool and whatever meager creativity their midfield could offer.
    I am happy I watched it on replay, I could fast-forward every time a PSG player was killed by a Liverpool player looking at him wrongly.
    The amount of diving, faking injuries, crowding the ref, etc... Wow.

    TLDR; Liverpool still needs some midfield quality to have more aspects to their game. Winning the ball and hoofing it up to the front 3 worked last season, but teams are better prepared for that now.

    More importantly... CL needs VAR. Badly.
     
  8. Prntscrn

    Prntscrn Registered User

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    But but but it wasn't studs up. Right foot down and that's an ankle/acl breaker
    I also think it's time for Klopp do stop his experiment with Firmino dropping down. Go back to how the three upfront played last season

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    If Verratti hadn't stopped his move, yes. But replays show he did.
    Meanwhile Milner got away with 3 bookable offenses.
    And Mane wasn't a penalty.
    And VVD could have been a penalty on Neymar.
    But that's OK. I guess.

    Lol. Liverpool players made cynical foul after cynical foul and Milner fouled Neymar three times after tackling him after the play.
    But yeah, PSG players dive while Pool players don't. I mean it's not like Mane dove before ADM's tackled... erh wait he did.

    Indeed. You managed one thing right in all of this. In that case, Liverpool's lone shot on target wouldn't have existed since there was no foul on the penalty and VVD would have been sanctionned by the ref for his tackeld on Neymar and thus penalty (note I don't blame the ref for either call since those were hard decisions).
     
  10. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Meanwhile when PSG was robbed in Madrid with a red not given to Kroos, a yellow on Rabiot for not touching Modric, a penalty given even if the Real player was offside on the play, Mbappe one on one with the goalie wrongly called offside, Ramos handling the ball in his own box, you only managed to say... wait for it....

    EXCUSES.
     
  11. koyvoo

    koyvoo For Badgeholders Only

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    The year before they got cheated too in the famous Barca comeback game. But when it comes to Madrid abs Barca you’ve almost got to expect it.
     
  12. Corto

    Corto Faceless Man

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    Veratti's challenge was a red card offense, any day, any time. It also happened in the 24th minute, way before any other (let's call them) controversial calls.
    (speaking of which, how is Liverpool's penalty not a good call? Yeah Mane goes down, but he has no obligation to jump over a prone player and ADM missed his challenge by a country mile... You lounge for a tackle like that, you have to get the ball.. Didn't see a single person complain about - except you now)

    No idea why anyone would defend that. Same for Lamela's challenge in the Spurs-Inter game.

    Liverpool players fouled PSG players? Of course they did. It's football.
    My issue isn't with fouls, it's with PSG players going down at the slightest touch and apparently getting seriously injured during any contact.

    Mane does go down easily. So does Salah from time to time.
    Neither really fake injuries and roll about (unconvincingly) like Neymar and Co.

    And what excuses... I'm not a Liverpool fan, and on balance, PSG deserved the win, Liverpool simply didn't create enough.
    Doesn't mean PSG players weren't bringing the sh*thousery to the very top level, but that's hardly a surprise with Neymar, Dani Alves, etc. all there.
     
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  13. Chimaera

    Chimaera same ol' Caps

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    Not good enough. Their midfield really wasn't good enough to win. I think Keita was ok for a bit, but he clearly needs match time. I love James Milner, but he wasn't very good. Hendo either, though I think he only really played because he got sent off in the league and can't play at the weekend. The sooner Fabinho and Keita are regular choices, the better. I also think Klopp might need Buvac more than he lets on.

    I won't go into the Neymar/PSG antics, as I'm certain it has been hashed out quite a bit in a variety of locations. What's been said about Neymar after last night has been said more often over and over. He's certainly hard to defend.

    I think the Veratti challenge might have been red, but I don't know if it excuses Liverpool's performance. It's too easy to say what would have been. I think the ref did have a poor showing, and the occasion might have gotten away from him.

    Liverpool still have a good chance to go through, but it is going to be difficult.


    On a side note, Allison is a stud and looking at how bad Kepa was this past weekend, I'm glad Liverpool got who they got.
     
  14. Corto

    Corto Faceless Man

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    My god. What on Earth.
    Alright, lets do this.

    PSG was robbed in Madrid with a red not given to Kroos

    - I'm assuming this is about Kroos not getting booked in the 2nd minute for a dive and then when he did receive a yellow near the end of the first half it would've been his second? That's not how life works. It's pretty safe to assume that Kroos takes extra care not to make any yellow-card worthy offense if he has a yellow card.

    a yellow on Rabiot for not touching Modric

    - yes I remember that. In no way, shape or form did it decide the game or the tie and it's a fairly common "missed" call

    a penalty given even if the Real player was offside on the play
    - Kroos was indeed offside when the ball was played to him by Marcelo. A mistake by the linesman.
    How exactly the refs knew that Toni Kroos by the corner flag was about to be stupidly fouled by Lo Celso and they deliberately let the play go on to rob PSG... We'll never know.

    Mbappe one on one with the goalie wrongly called offside

    - close call, literal centimeters... impossible to tell even on replays... Hardly a robbery regardless of how the call went...
    And it's not exactly like Mbappe was through on goal, he was being closed down quickly and was passing the ball

    [​IMG]

    Ramos handling the ball in his own box,
    - Rabiot shot a half volley 2m away from Ramos who was holding his arms down. Never a penalty in my book, but at worst, highly debatable.
    In the video, you can even see Ramos moving his arms towards his body (and later behind) to avoid accidental contact. It does occur (accidental contact), but never a penalty - and like I said, at worst, highly debatable.

    [​IMG]

    ...

    Out of all of that, the only call that really went against PSG is the offside on Kroos.
    And even then, it's not like he was through on goal, he was basically at the corner flag and any PSG fan with any semblance of the concept of personal responsibility will look to Lo Celso making a dumb foul instead of ref "robbing them".

    TLDR; if there are people who think Real beat PSG last year because of refs, they're either biased or delusional.

     
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  15. kyle evs48

    kyle evs48 Devilish Boy Grin

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    PDP was a great atmosphere yesterday and the match was very tense. Frustrating as it may have been, I really enjoyed it. It's a shame that's getting overshadowed today by embellishment talk.
     
  16. Savant

    Savant Registered User

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    I mean as the game went, PSG deserved the 3 points, but I still think Verratti should have seen red which could have changed things. C'est la vie.

    Liverpool really do things the hard way. If needing to win Matchweek 6 at Anfield doesn't wake up their offense nothing will (besides Oxlade-Chamberlain) so that game should be a slobberknocker.

    Liverpool have been wretched on the road in Europe this season, and will only have themselves to blame if they drop to Europa with their last minute loss to Napoli and losing at Red Star. But they are at home and to an extent they control their own destiny. Stay tuned
     
  17. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Pretty much.
     
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  18. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Mane jumped to the ground way before he threw himself into ADM's leg. The fact it was a stupid tackle doesn't mean it was a foul.
    No, Verratti was a text book red card because he stopped his movement. Watch the replay please.
    I'm the only one who thinks it wasn't a penalty?
    EVERY Liverpool fan admitted it in the thread. Even then have less bias than you it seems.
    And weirdly enough when Griez slipped in the WC final and fell on the coratian player, a foul was called. Wrongly so. Yet you said he dove the whole time.
    Here, Mane threw himself on ADM's leg ON PURPOSE.

    Different view depending on the team it seems. :laugh:

    LOL. Just LOL to everything. Embarrassing really.

    So the only one who dove to get a penalty is fine. Got you.

    Well, you know, you claim not to be a Real fan also...
     
  19. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    So let's sum up.
    - Kroos wouldn't have had a red even if he made two bookable offenses. because you said so. Allright. Well I say if he's carded early, he doesn't butcher Mbappe's knee and PSG could have scored on the play. See, that's not how it works either. You can't say it didn't impact the game. Kroos finished with 0 yellow.
    - Rabiot is booked, but that doesn't weigh on the game according to you. Well, that's not how it works either. Rabiot may have changed his ways the rest of the game because of that bogus call (nice dive by your man BTW, you probably saw the replay there too).
    - it doesn't matter Kroos was offside because Lo Celso fouled him afterwards. Got you. Offsides don't matter when the go your way.
    - Mbappe closed down quickly? LOL. So yeah another call that goes Real's way, and weirdly enough, the only conclusion you can get is that Mbappe who is known NEVER to be cauhgt up when two meters in front was about to be closed down by Sergio MF Ramos or Raphael MF Varane who are already late on the play. Now that's quite an argument. :laugh:
    - I'll agree about Ramos. 50/50 call IMO. Problem is even 100/0 calls went Real's way.

    So the summary of all this (Real players not carded, PSG players carded, offside goal, offside call on a one on one, 50/50 penalty call) is that the only call that really went againt PSG was the offside goal.

    What can I say. Fantastic bias. I wonder who is delusionnal.
     
  20. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    It is, and this talk (by Klopp especially) is embarrassing. Mane's penalty, VVD's possible penalty, he ignores it and talks about Verratti's play.
     
  21. Jersey Fresh

    Jersey Fresh Video Et Taceo

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    Griezmann slipped...:laugh:

    That is gold.
     
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  22. Savant

    Savant Registered User

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    I don't think anyone is particularly innocent here honestly. The ref had no control of the game whatsoever and both sides had their moments
     
  23. Cassano

    Cassano nyeah eh

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  24. kyle evs48

    kyle evs48 Devilish Boy Grin

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    Do managers often call out their own players for that?
     
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  25. StevenF1919

    StevenF1919 Registered User

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    Evilo is the most biased person on this board but he's right, PSG was robbed. One of several (maybe even double digits) CL games in the last couple years where Real heavily benefited from poor reffing decisions. One could argue that if they didn't have UEFA cheating for them they wouldn't have won anything these last three years. No wonder UEFA didn't want to implement VAR.
     

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