OT: City of Sunrise Wakes Up with New Development

[PanthersHockey1]

Interesting article related to last piece of development around BB&T Center...

A new dawn in Sunrise?

Imho and as someone who works in commercial real estate... If Sunrise develops the parking lot right, it could be worth far more than the $86M the Panthers traded for the development rights and bail-out.

Click to read more...

 

[PanthersHockey1]

County hires CallisonRTKL to design redevelopment of BB&T Center property

County hires CallisonRTKL to design redevelopment of BB&T Center property

 

[drktmplr12]

County hires CallisonRTKL to design redevelopment of BB&T Center property

County hires CallisonRTKL to design redevelopment of BB&T Center property

i work in engineering consulting for buildings and industrial facilities. i think the title and article is misleading. the county has merely commissioned a master plan. in order to develop the plan, they must make some very high level assumptions regarding how the parcel would be divided. you can't design the redevelopment of 140 acres into hotels, retail, commercial and parking for $300,000.

that said, also it would be a huge win for the county if they successfully design and marketed the property around the bb&t. i have my reservations..

 

[IceManCat]

In layman's terms is this a good thing or a bad thing for the future of our franchise?

 

[FinlandPanther]

In layman's terms is this a good thing or a bad thing for the future of our franchise?

Thank you lol. The stupid people need some help

 

[pantherbot]

I'd guess it's a good thing so there's more to draw crowds to the area. Not much to do right now except stroll at sawgrass mills. But considering how long it would actually take to get anything done... probably doesn't help the team for at least 5-10 years

 

[PanthersHockey1]

It is potentially a good thing. The Panthers made a bail-out deal 2 years ago to receive a $80M cash infusion with city of Sunrise in exchange for development rights to the excess land (including parking lot) surrounding the stadium.

The city of Sunrise is moving forward with architects and eventually contractors to build on the parking lot a mixed use project including apartments, hotel, restaurants and stores.

The question still remains what happens to the arena itself when the Panthers lease expires in 2028. It is anyone's guess at this point. If this project is successful it makes the dirt a lot more valuable and potentially makes the stadium more likely to be torn down and re-developed.

 

[drktmplr12]

for the panthers, it goes both ways. a successful redevelopment of the parking area will increase foot traffic and residences near and BB&T. this could lead to increased attendance of games because there will be more restaurants, bars, transportation, etc around the arena.

on the other hand, it will also reduce their negotiating leverage next renewal since the resulting hotels, commercial spaces, residences would produce more in taxes than the bb&t by itself (this has yet to be proven, and is part of what a 10 or 20 year master plan would tell you). this is precisely why the county insisted on obtaining the rights to develop the parking lot. expect the subsidies the county gave to viola et. al. to disappear after 2028. without those subsidies, if the team is still floundering with respect to ticket sales, etc, there will be far less incentive for the county tax payers to bail them out a second time. this could result in the ownership moving the team in 2028-29.

hell, i wouldn't be surprised if the study also detailed three scenarios at the end of the 10-year master plan: (a) panthers renew in 2028 at market rate (b) panthers leave or (c) panthers renew in 2028 with similar subsidies.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Thank you lol. The stupid people need some help

The Panthers have a lease until 2028. However, they have an opt-out in 2023 if they can show $150 million in losses. Additionally they have to declare their intention to break the lease July 2022. The Panthers are not moving anytime soon, and if the time comes, you're going to know.

You have many miserable years ahead still with this team, don't worry.

In terms of what this development means to the team, the County owns this property (Panthers traded it to them for their bailout loan), remains to be seen if this potential project could help attendance.

 

[StrangeVision]

If they want to find a way to get this team out of South Florida, they will find a way.

 

[GermanPanther]

If they want to find a way to get this team out of South Florida, they will find a way.

Sure they can pay the Money of breaking up the Contract, but i dont even wanna know how high it would be. It will be a Number no Owner is willed to pay.
And i think the Panthers should stay in Florida, they only must really figure out. Who is the FanBase, where they are and how im able to get them to the Arena. Beside Winning.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

If they want to find a way to get this team out of South Florida, they will find a way.

They being the NHL? Idk how and even if it is possible Bettman wont do it. Viola definitely cant. Contract is a contract.

 

[StrangeVision]

"They" being Broward County and the Panthers ownership group. If both sides are amicable and it makes sense on the balance sheets they will find a way out and with the development of the BB&T Center property, the county can recoup money they may have otherwise lost on the team. This may be the first step to the end of the Florida Panthers.

I mean, let's be real here, is a failing hockey team the best use of $86M of taxpayer money?

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I dont think the Countys opinion has changed and if they opt out in 2023 Viola needs to pay the 86 million back anyways. I also dont think Viola wants to sell any time soon. I followed this situation closely to the point where I watched the 2015 stream of the vote to keep the team. Im not concerned at all right now (I was very concerned back then). You have a few more miserable years left of watching this team still.

 

[Drugs Delaney]

Sure they can pay the Money of breaking up the Contract, but i dont even wanna know how high it would be. It will be a Number no Owner is willed to pay.
And i think the Panthers should stay in Florida, they only must really figure out. Who is the FanBase, where they are and how im able to get them to the Arena. Beside Winning.

I’m pretty sure somebody did the math on that in a thread on the main boards. I don’t know if it’s correct but it didn’t seem to be outrageous.

 

[PanthersHockey1]

The Panthers have a lease until 2028. However, they have an opt-out in 2023 if they can show $150 million in losses. Additionally they have to declare their intention to break the lease July 2022. The Panthers are not moving anytime soon, and if the time comes, you're going to know.

You have many miserable years ahead still with this team, don't worry.

In terms of what this development means to the team, the County owns this property (Panthers traded it to them for their bailout loan), remains to be seen if this potential project could help attendance.

To be fair 2023 is 5 years from now. That doesn’t seem like all that long a time frame imho.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Status of The Florida Panthers

I made an all encompassing post there^ it includes the actual findings the County came to. As you can see the loan is completely frontloaded which makes me a bit concerned about 2023 but that is a ways away. Not moving before then.

To be fair 2023 is 5 years from now. That doesn’t seem like all that long a time frame imho.

True but I didnt want to be like the Thrashers and get strung along. If they opt out you will know they are done and make your peace. Also maybe they dont suck in 4 years time and build a fanba...who am I kidding.

 

[PanthersHockey1]

The sad part is that the BB&T is not some monolith like rexall place in Edmonton or Nassau collesium on the island.

It really does not need any major rehab and can easily serve the panthers for another 20 years beyond the 2028 expiration.

 

[pantherbot]

The Panthers have a lease until 2028. However, they have an opt-out in 2023 if they can show $150 million in losses. Additionally they have to declare their intention to break the lease July 2022. The Panthers are not moving anytime soon, and if the time comes, you're going to know.

You have many miserable years ahead still with this team, don't worry.

In terms of what this development means to the team, the County owns this property (Panthers traded it to them for their bailout loan), remains to be seen if this potential project could help attendance.

It was cumulative losses of $150M right? That doesn't sound like that hard to reach given state of the team