Value of: Chris Tierney or Mikkel Boedker at the draft

[TomasHertlsRooster]

As Spin brought up on the CBJ board Tierney would be a great option for Columbus. Dubois-Wennberg-Tierney would be good depth and lots of internal competition.
What San Jose would want from Columbus I have no idea

I feel like you guys have an expendable defenseman who is a rough comparable. Perhaps Tierney+Dillon for Nutivaara+2nd?

 

[rt]

The team is not likely looking for another winger to replace him as they have plenty of those. I'd probably be happy with Minnesota's 2nd round pick for Boedker just to clear the roster space needed. The cap space is really only needed if Tavares is legitimately an option for San Jose which I'm assuming is not until he actually signs. lol

I wouldn’t trade pick 55 for Boedker. Someone suggested 74. Even that gives me pause. I don’t really want both of Boedker and Panik on the roster, either. Both are quite mediocre and without upside. They’re fine as filler, but a roster can contain only so much filler in the top nine.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

As Spin brought up on the CBJ board Tierney would be a great option for Columbus. Dubois-Wennberg-Tierney would be good depth and lots of internal competition.
What San Jose would want from Columbus I have no idea

I don't see really anything that could realistically be done sending Tierney to Columbus. The guys I'd want far outpace Tierney's value and I don't see a future asset I'd want to move him to Columbus for.

 

[stevo61]

I feel like you guys have an expendable defenseman who is a rough comparable. Perhaps Tierney+Dillon for Nutivaara+2nd?

Myself and I feel the organization would be extremely hesitant to move any of the top 4 D. That would be Werenski-Jones Murray-Nutivaara

 

[Jame]

The only reason Boedker is available at this juncture is because the Sharks have seven top-9 caliber wingers and only six spots in their top-9 to fill it. Some winger on the Sharks will be on the move. Unless they're actually going to get Tavares, they don't need the cap space Boedker's cap dump would provide. So they're not in a position where they need to take less to dump cap. They would take a rental like return because they may like to recoup the 2nd and 3rd round draft picks that they lost in this draft to Toronto. The only non-Tavares option here is maybe a package deal for a defenseman like say Boedker and Heed to Toronto for Gardiner. They're not positioned in a manner where they need to dump cap and take less to do so. At this point, Boedker's pick value should be in the late-2nd, early 3rd round range as a solid 2nd liner on a very good contract.

What kind of contracts do you think Hertl and Tierny are going to get?

I would think you need cap space for more than just Tavares... but in pursuit of D upgrades. Why trade Boedker for Gardiner (why would Toronto do that?). Aren't you better off getting picks for Boedker while pursuing free agency for D upgrades?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I wouldn’t trade pick 55 for Boedker. Someone suggested 74. Even that gives me pause. I don’t really want both of Boedker and Panik on the roster, either. Both are quite mediocre and without upside. They’re fine as filler, but a roster can contain only so much filler in the top nine.

The Sharks have too many wingers so swapping them doesn't make sense. I don't see how Panik's a road block for bringing in Boedker when you look at the Coyotes top nine right now at the wing. Panik, Keller, Domi (if he stays), Perlini, and Fischer are all there right now and there isn't really anything unless someone has a big training camp like Crouse or Burke. I think even if that was a concern, Arizona shouldn't have a problem finding another suitor for Panik or whoever especially if the Domi stuff materializes.

 

[Kcoyote3]

I asked for examples of them being traded for a bottom 6 forward..... you provided one, the dopey Garth Snow trade that's laughable today.

The other examples you provided do not represent the value of a bottom 6 forward, they were traded for vastly different value/reasons.

The majority are close to the value of Tierney + Boedker, or far less

So you think Tierney is worth a top 10 pick in the 2018 draft? Since... those guys haven't proven anything yet either.

Weak arguments

Wow talk about weak arguments. Nylander isn't being drafted in a week, he was drafted two years ago. Also in general Tierney could catch a 20+ draft pick in this year's draft.

I know that trade value isn't determined in such simple ways.

No but a middle six young center and a middle six winger, both of which are capable of 40 points and probably cost 6-7 million are worth more than a journeyman defenseman and a 4th. So the way you determine trade values is severely flawed if anything.

 

[rt]

The Sharks have too many wingers so swapping them doesn't make sense. I don't see how Panik's a road block for bringing in Boedker when you look at the Coyotes top nine right now at the wing. Panik, Keller, Domi (if he stays), Perlini, and Fischer are all there right now and there isn't really anything unless someone has a big training camp like Crouse or Burke. I think even if that was a concern, Arizona shouldn't have a problem finding another suitor for Panik or whoever especially if the Domi stuff materializes.

The Coyotes have to pick up a forward that is considerably better than Panik or Boedker. One way or another. If they accomplish this, and bey must, there won’t be room for Boedker and Panik. Both of whom I would prefer to be the weak link, rather than the typical type.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

What kind of contracts do you think Hertl and Tierny are going to get?

I would think you need cap space for more than just Tavares... but in pursuit of D upgrades. Why trade Boedker for Gardiner (why would Toronto do that?). Aren't you better off getting picks for Boedker while pursuing free agency for D upgrades?

I suspect Hertl gets 5.5-6 mil and Tierney gets around 2.5 mil. Plenty of cap space for them as it stands especially when you look at their roster and see what moves are likely, they have room to do things. Toronto would trade Gardiner for Boedker and Heed to give Gardiner a fresh start, to have a winger that will contribute after they lose JVR and Komarov while still being easy to move him next year when they want to re-sign Matthews and Marner. As for free agency upgrades, there really isn't much there. Carlson is not going to be a cost-efficient move for their needs. Green may be the only real option in free agency. Everyone else is probably not a good fit for what they should be going after.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The Coyotes have to pick up a forward that is considerably better than Panik or Boedker. One way or another. If they accomplish this, and bey must, there won’t be room for Boedker and Panik. Both of whom I would prefer to be the weak link, rather than the typical type.

And I suspect that if that were to be the case, they could find a place for Panik if need be. In either case, neither Panik nor Boedker are the weak link of that bunch. lol

 

[Groo]

Any interest in Boedker for Fischer

 

[Critical13]

Any interest in Boedker for Fischer

Fischer? Christian Fischer?

 

[Jame]

The majority are close to the value of Tierney + Boedker, or far less

They are not... but I don't expect you understand the value difference between trying to add the missing piece to winning a Stanley Cup (forsberg), or maintaining a cap structure to keep your stanley cup winner together (teravainen).... and adding relatively mid tier players in Boedker/Tierney.

These valuations aren't even on the same planet.

Wow talk about weak arguments. Nylander isn't being drafted in a week, he was drafted two years ago.

I guess we can trade Zemgus Girgensons for Josh Norris then... because, you know... what has Josh Norris doen :rolleys:

Also in general Tierney could catch a 20+ draft pick in this year's draft.

[sigh]

No but a middle six young center and a middle six winger, both of which are capable of 40 points and probably cost 6-7 million are worth more than a journeyman defenseman and a 4th. So the way you determine trade values is severely flawed if anything.

When did Jake McCabe become a journeymen?

He was taken 11 picks before Tierney, and has been on the same development curve....

McCabe=Tierny

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

What kind of contracts do you think Hertl and Tierny are going to get?

I would think you need cap space for more than just Tavares... but in pursuit of D upgrades. Why trade Boedker for Gardiner (why would Toronto do that?). Aren't you better off getting picks for Boedker while pursuing free agency for D upgrades?

There is no free agent D on Gardiner’s level outside of John Carlson who is probably getting $8M/8 year’s

Hertl will get between $4.5 and $6M. Tierney will get between $2.5 and $3.5M.

We have more than enough cap space to retain Tierney, Thornton, and Hertl without even moving Boedker or Melker Karlsson.

 

[Jame]

I suspect Hertl gets 5.5-6 mil and Tierney gets around 2.5 mil. Plenty of cap space for them as it stands especially when you look at their roster and see what moves are likely, they have room to do things. Toronto would trade Gardiner for Boedker and Heed to give Gardiner a fresh start, to have a winger that will contribute after they lose JVR and Komarov while still being easy to move him next year when they want to re-sign Matthews and Marner. As for free agency upgrades, there really isn't much there. Carlson is not going to be a cost-efficient move for their needs. Green may be the only real option in free agency. Everyone else is probably not a good fit for what they should be going after.

I assume they you buyout Martin, to create the cap space....
But I also assume San Jose will want to make 1-2 significant upgrades, given the window is closing and theyve got major UFA concerns coming..... (CouturePavelski next year).

I don't Toronto makes that move... they have multiple Boedker's in the lineup already (Hyman, Brown)

In their top 6, Boedker isn't supplanting Hyman, Brown, Marner or Marleau.... so you think they are trading a top 4 defensemen.... for a bottom 6 winger? In a bottom 6 where they already have Kapanen and Nylander?

The player they would trade Gardiner for.... is Tierney, not Boedker. To replace Bozak/Plekanec/Moore... where they lack a bottom 6 center.

 

[Jame]

There is no free agent D on Gardiner’s level outside of John Carlson who is probably getting $8M/8 year’s

Hertl will get between $4.5 and $6M. Tierney will get between $2.5 and $3.5M.

We have more than enough cap space to retain Tierney, Thornton, and Hertl without even moving Boedker or Melker Karlsson.

I prefer D that play good D.... so I'd argue DeHaan or Pateryn would be great adds.

 

[Jame]

There is no free agent D on Gardiner’s level outside of John Carlson who is probably getting $8M/8 year’s

Hertl will get between $4.5 and $6M. Tierney will get between $2.5 and $3.5M.

We have more than enough cap space to retain Tierney, Thornton, and Hertl without even moving Boedker or Melker Karlsson.

It's tight... I guess upgrading the roster is not a priority...
Are you buying out Martin?
What does Thornton come back at?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I assume they you buyout Martin, to create the cap space....
But I also assume San Jose will want to make 1-2 significant upgrades, given the window is closing and theyve got major UFA concerns coming..... (CouturePavelski next year).

I don't Toronto makes that move... they have multiple Boedker's in the lineup already (Hyman, Brown)

In their top 6, Boedker isn't supplanting Hyman, Brown, Marner or Marleau.... so you think they are trading a top 4 defensemen.... for a bottom 6 winger? In a bottom 6 where they already have Kapanen and Nylander?

The player they would trade Gardiner for.... is Tierney, not Boedker. To replace Bozak/Plekanec/Moore... where they lack a bottom 6 center.

You're missing the point with regards to the Toronto proposal. It was merely an example of a potential hockey trade to be made. The Sharks only need to dump cap if they're actually in on Tavares. They don't need to dump cap to keep their guys or go after a free agent that isn't Tavares since they're not going to have interest in Carlson really who would be the other premium top dollar free agent. But you're coming at it with antiquated thinking if you believe that you split the forwards off at the top six/bottom six. You need three good lines up front that could all at least be 2nd line caliber and let's be real. Boedker is a more proven commodity than Brown. They probably shouldn't be putting their eggs in the basket of a guy who is coming off a 14-14 season as a top six option. Boedker would be an upgrade on that spot and there's no reason to rely on Kapanen to take the next step at this point unless they have no choice.

I prefer D that play good D.... so I'd argue DeHaan or Pateryn would be great adds.

Sharks already have too many guys on their team that are defense oriented. They need someone who is an actual threat from the blue line besides Brent Burns and I would prefer it on the left side.

It's tight... I guess upgrading the roster is not a priority...
Are you buying out Martin?
What does Thornton come back at?

Martin is probably bought out. Thornton has flexibility in his contract because he can take up performance bonuses to get paid if he was willing and the Sharks could lower his salary and cap hit to open space up for other things. I suspect that will be tied in with the potential Tavares signing and failing that any defensive adds. Sharks need to move a couple wingers as it is right now and one of them should be Melker Karlsson regardless but the 2nd one is up for debate based on how things play out.

 

[ThorNton Apologist]

Any interest in Boedker for Fischer

No way Arizona goes for that. I think 74 is a realistic expectation in return

 

[Groo]

No way Arizona goes for that. I think 74 is a realistic expectation in return

Don't know until one asks.
Can always work in somesort of plus. Seems to be the way things work around here

 

[Kcoyote3]

They are not... but I don't expect you understand the value difference between trying to add the missing piece to winning a Stanley Cup (forsberg), or maintaining a cap structure to keep your stanley cup winner together (teravainen).... and adding relatively mid tier players in Boedker/Tierney.

These valuations aren't even on the same planet.

I don't understand this argument. Somehow Teravainen who got a 2nd and a 3rd is a better return than Boedker and Tierney. I understand you're saying Chicago needed to shed cap, but even that is a stretch. That return is well within the return or Tierney and Boedker. Paajarvi was traded for a bottom six after struggling, Neids was traded but you wrote that off because you wanted to. This is why I hate when people ask for examples of trades. Because once someone provides it, it isnt EXACT and that means you can nitpick it to death. These trades happen. Top 10 picks aren't gold because they were once drafted top 10. They have to develop an NHL game.

I guess we can trade Zemgus Girgensons for Josh Norris then... because, you know... what has Josh Norris doen :rolleys:

Ah yes, another top Sabres pick who has done absolutely nothing. Bet you wouldn't have traded him after his second year for Tierney and Boedker either.

Sigh

Oh yeah, because third line centers never return late 1sts. Especially ones that are 23 and RFAs. Go look at every deadline. Or just keep sighing because you have no concept of trade value. Teams want to add young 40 point players who play the PK as well.

When did Jake McCabe become a journeymen?

He was taken 11 picks before Tierney, and has been on the same development curve....

McCabe=Tierny

McCabe became a #6 defenseman when he couldn't progress past the bottom pairing on one of the worst defenses in the NHL. Journeyman defenseman is the wrong term, you're correct. But a third line center is far more valuable than a bottom pairing defenseman. And again you're obsessed with draft position and not player development. McCabe may be just fine, but he is not worth Boedker and Tierney. Go present that to anywhere on this board and see the results.

 

[THall4]

Some possible candidates:

For Tierney:

Philadelphia
Montreal
Toronto
Edmonton

For Boedker:

Dallas
Buffalo
Arizona

Probably a bunch of other teams. What do you think either one of them could get at the draft?

Both for Lucic.....

No, is okay...i'll find my own way out.

 

[rt]

And I suspect that if that were to be the case, they could find a place for Panik if need be. In either case, neither Panik nor Boedker are the weak link of that bunch. lol

By the middle of next season, I think Fischer and Perlini will be better than Boedker and Panik.

 

[SnS]

Honestly, I don't follow you guys enough to value your non-blue chip prospects. I personally could see us moving Tierney and our 21 OA for your 14 OA pick....

I don’t think Hextall wants to trade back.

 

[Jame]

I don't understand this argument. Somehow Teravainen who got a 2nd and a 3rd is a better return than Boedker and Tierney. I understand you're saying Chicago needed to shed cap, but even that is a stretch. That return is well within the return or Tierney and Boedker. Paajarvi was traded for a bottom six after struggling, Neids was traded but you wrote that off because you wanted to. This is why I hate when people ask for examples of trades. Because once someone provides it, it isnt EXACT and that means you can nitpick it to death. These trades happen. Top 10 picks aren't gold because they were once drafted top 10. They have to develop an NHL game.

Sorry that you don’t understand the argument. It’s pretty simple. Teams were will to PAY to rid themselves of contracts. In a Chicago’s case it was for cap space, to continue to contend for a cup.

In Florida’s case, it was financial (Bolland)...

That’s what was traded for...

It’s is not in any way relevant to the trade value of Chris tierney.

Thanks for being honest about not understanding

McCabe became a #6 defenseman when he couldn't progress past the bottom pairing on one of the worst defenses in the NHL.

That’s simply not accurate