Value of: Chris Kreider

[doomscroll]

I'd do a first and LaBanc

I’d be pretty okay with that, from the Rangers’ side.

 

[MtoD]

Coming from a person who's sister has had lifelong blood clot issues, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. DVT is a very specific bloot clot instance that is not at all what kreider had.

First off, blood clots happen for a myriad of reasons. DVT is not the blanket diagnosis for clots. DVT is primarily a LEG clot issues and kreider had a clot in his arm.

Second, other people have symptoms like pulmonary hypertension and APS which a actually DOES make them prone to blood clots for life. And these happen all over their body, legs, heart, lungs, and gravitate to their heart and arteries.

Pascal dupuis is actually an example of this as he was diagnosed with a lifelong condition forcing him to retire and his clots randomly starting forming in his lungs.

There is nothing to indicate so far kreider is at risk to throw another clot especially since he definitely doesn't have DVT as you just assumed is the blanket blood clot diagnosis

DVT is not primarily a leg clot issue. It's DEEP VEIN thrombosis. You have deep veins in other places than just your legs. DVTs in your legs are the most common form of DVTs but you can absolutely (and not uncommonly) have DVTs in the DEEP VEINS of your upper extremity.

Based on: https://nypost.com/2018/01/05/chris-kreider-needs-surgery-to-fix-blood-clots/

Kreider needed to be on blood thinners post surgery, almost assuredly a sign that he suffered from a DVT. You don't go on blood thinners for a superficial (i.e. not DEEP VEIN) clot, at all.

He also needed surgery to resect a rib (which as the article suggests, likely means he suffered from thoracic outlet syndrome... which causes DVTs in the subclavian veins (a deep vein..). He almost assuredly had testing to look for other reasons why he may be prone to develop blood clots.. and they were likely negative, but thoracic outlet syndrome is still a pretty serious form of DVT. If you don't get surgery, you can be on blood thinners for life to prevent extension of the clot and pulmonary embolisms.

He shouldn't be prone to developing the symptoms again given he had the rib resected but I'm sure there are studies out there that demonstrated an increased risk of DVTs in those who previously suffered from thoracic outlet syndrome. There's something about his anatomy, his movements and his blood that caused the first clot in the first place (and he does, in fact, have another side of the body). Is he at a greatly increased risk of it all happening again? Probably not. Is he at an increased risk relative to the rest of the NHL population? Probably. It's hard to tell.

What isn't hard to tell is that he almost certainly had a DVT and 100% that a DVT is not primarily a leg clot issue.

And just for education, you have a few other things incorrect as well. You don't typically develop clots in the lungs or the heart.. these are too high flow usually and clots require some component of blood stasis (look up Virchow's triad). You can get a thrombus that forms in the heart in certain conditions like atrial fibrillation (heart not pumping as efficiently so there's some stasis) but that usually doesn't affect the heart but rather parts break off and travel to the brain and cause strokes. Clots more commonly form in the extremities and sometimes in the deep vasculature of the abdomen (portal system) in people who have some underlying clotting disorder. Chunks can break off and TRAVEL to the lungs (not vice versa). This is called a pulmonary embolism and can be life-threatening. DVTs can't really break off and travel to the coronaries (blood vessels that feed the heart) as those are fed by the left part of the heart and they wouldn't be able to get there as they'd get stuck in the capillary system of the lungs first. Similarly, they can't get to the arteries because they are on the venous side and would have to pass through the lungs as well.

I found this site which breaks thoracic outlet syndrome down pretty well in layman's terms: Venous TOS . I obviously don't know the specifics of Kreider's case but from my perspective/knowledge, I'd feel pretty damn comfortable wagering that this is what he suffered from.

BSDetector MD

 

[Ducks in a row]

Kreider is not over-valued. If you don't want to pay the price to get him then you don't get him. NYR gladly keeps him. He's not a 30 goal player and never will be; however he's a threat in every aspect of the game and a proven playoff performer and does damage when it matters. It's the intangibles, work ethic, and clutchness that make him invaluable to NYR. He's worth a first and a top notch prospect and nothing less.

37 points in 77 playoff games (15 points in his last 36 playoff games) isn't that good for a proven playoff performer who does damage when it matters.

A 1st round pick and top notch prospect is too much for him. A 1st and a mid tier prospect should be his highest value

 

[Sens]

37 points in 77 playoff games (15 points in his last 36 playoff games) isn't that good for a proven playoff performer who does damage when it matters.

A 1st round pick and top notch prospect is too much for him. A 1st and a mid tier prospect should be his highest value

Alfredsson first 70 playoff games
27G 48Pts

But you could see the effort and how he controlled play... he was proven regardless of the numbers.

If you watched the Rangers in the playoffs, Kreiders the same... he carries play

 

[Ducks in a row]

Alfredsson first 70 playoff games
27G 48Pts

But you could see the effort and how he controlled play... he was proven regardless of the numbers.

If you watched the Rangers in the playoffs, Kreiders the same... he carries play

48 points in 70 games is much better then 37 points in 77 games. A proven playoff performer for a forward can't have a sub .5 ppg like Kreider has.

 

[Sens]

48 points in 70 games is much better then 37 points in 77 games. A proven playoff performer for a forward can't have a sub .5 ppg like Kreider has.

His last 51playoff games 28Pts
In 13/14 had 13Pts on a 15 game run

 

[Ducks in a row]

His last 51playoff games 28Pts

Overall 37 points in 77 games and 15 points in his last 36 playoff games (last 3 playoffs) only 1 time he ever had a playoffs being at least .5 ppg in the playoffs and that playoffs he was very good with 13 points in 15 games. He isn't a playoff performer he produces a good deal worse then regular season over his career. I would never call someone like Kredier a playoff performer. A playoff performer needs to step up in the playoffs and produce much better then he has.

 

[tradenashnow]

37 points in 77 playoff games (15 points in his last 36 playoff games) isn't that good for a proven playoff performer who does damage when it matters.

A 1st round pick and top notch prospect is too much for him. A 1st and a mid tier prospect should be his highest value

Dream on. Kreider is one the best 3 net front presences in the league. This thread is useless. Rangers aren't trading him. He's a big part of this rebuild.

 

[tradenashnow]

48 points in 70 games is much better then 37 points in 77 games. A proven playoff performer for a forward can't have a sub .5 ppg like Kreider has.

You obviously struggling with your understanding of the sport of hockey. Points in the playoffs are harder to come by. Also, the only players that have near or over a PPG in the playoffs usually get a ton of their points on the PP. So, if your teams PP isn't great or you aren't really a PP guy, you aren't going to have a high PPG average period. Especially in the playoffs. It's also when you get those points that matters. Kreider has had plenty of clutch goals in the playoffs. You might want to think more before you become a stat geek.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Dream on. Kreider is one the best 3 net front presences in the league. This thread is useless. Rangers aren't trading him. He's a big part of this rebuild.

Kreider doesn't produce that well in the playoffs that is a fact.

You obviously struggling with your understanding of the sport of hockey. Points in the playoffs are harder to come by. Also, the only players that have near or over a PPG in the playoffs usually get a ton of their points on the PP. So, if your teams PP isn't great or you aren't really a PP guy, you aren't going to have a high PPG average period. Especially in the playoffs. It's also when you get those points that matters. Kreider has had plenty of clutch goals in the playoffs. You might want to think more before you become a stat geek.

Of course points are harder to come by in the playoffs because your playing better teams and in high pressure situation. A lot of players point per games average drops in the playoffs but not all of them do. Kreider's drops and with the drop his points per game average is under half a point per game. Under half a point per game player isn't a playoff performer. Getting a point early in the game or late in the game still is a point that helps your team win. I care about how good a player produces to help his team win and better producers tend to help their team win more then if they produced less.

 

[CHGoalie27]

The fact that

Kreider doesn't produce that well in the playoffs that is a fact.



Of course points are harder to come by in the playoffs because your playing better teams and in high pressure situation. A lot of players point per games average drops in the playoffs but not all of them do. Kreider's drops and with the drop his points per game average is under half a point per game. Under half a point per game player isn't a playoff performer. Getting a point early in the game or late in the game still is a point that helps your team win. I care about how good a player produces to help his team win and better producers tend to help their team win more then if they produced less.

Your reliance on stats is nauseating.

You have proven one of two things. You haven't watched a single Rangers playoff game (where you can see with two working eyes that Kreider is one of like 3 guys always moving their ass) or you didn't know what you're looking at when you did watch Kreider be one of 3 NYR non goalies worth a damn...

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd be amazed how his stats are as good as he got them to be.

 

[Ducks in a row]

The fact that


Your reliance on stats is nauseating.

You have proven one of two things. You haven't watched a single Rangers playoff game (where you can see with two working eyes that Kreider is one of like 3 guys always moving their ass) or you didn't know what you're looking at when you did watch Kreider be one of 3 NYR non goalies worth a damn...

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd be amazed how his stats are as good as he got them to be.

Being a good playoff performer for a forward requires you to produce well not someone who produces under .5 ppg in the playoffs otherwise being called a playoff performer loses meaning because a lot of players produce better and then a lot that don't also work hard too. Calling someone a playoff performer needs to mean more then what its being called here.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

Even for a 37 point player, that package was crap

Johnsson will probably score 37 next season

 

[CHGoalie27]

When you limit your analysis to how many points a guy got to assess his final value, you're missing variables like teammates/coaches.

Why did the Rangers trade Mike Gartner before they won the Cup?

When people say playoff performer, or money player, it's all about who is looking like the effective player in the tightest game situations. For some reason the Rangers annually give up a guy like that instead of keep them and get more like them.

Las Vegas made most their team out of guys like that. Which is why some people around the hockey world weren't surprised when their predictions of a deep playoff run happened and most of the stat watching hockey world was astounded.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Johnsson will probably score 37 next season

In the ahl?

 

[CHGoalie27]

Here's a question of stat though, where does Kreider stand amongst his teammates over the years for the stats you posted above?

 

[CHGoalie27]

I would never call someone like Kredier a playoff performer.

HF Boards . com ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Ducks in a row]

HF Boards . com ladies and gentlemen.

Produces at a lower rate in the playoff being below .5 ppg with 37 points in 77 games is a playoff performer

If that is a playoff performer then the standards are too easy so then if someone says someone is a playoff performer it will mean little.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

I'd do a first and LaBanc

It would have to be a 2020 1st right?

 

[CHGoalie27]

Produces at a lower rate in the playoff being below .5 ppg with 37 points in 77 games is a playoff performer

If that is a playoff performer then the standards are too easy so then if someone says someone is a playoff performer it will mean little.

Here's a question of stat though, where does Kreider stand amongst his teammates over the years for the stats you posted above?

My apologies, I thought I quoted you.

Another few questions on the stats:
-How many of those 37 points were because he earned them or someone else created the play and he was just there?

-Of those 37 points in those 77 games, how many multi point games were there? Were they in clumps according to how the whole team was doing?

-How many games was he one of the only ones out there and couldnt register a point?

-Who were the goalies in the games he didn't register a point? Were they hot that night or was the defense holding them up even more?

At this point I'm not gonna further waste my time, I'm just gonna assume you have no idea what I'm saying right now and stop.

Go watch one playoff game where he registers a point, and one he doesn't. Put some thought into why both are so.

 

[Sweetpotato]

You obviously struggling with your understanding of the sport of hockey. Points in the playoffs are harder to come by. Also, the only players that have near or over a PPG in the playoffs usually get a ton of their points on the PP. So, if your teams PP isn't great or you aren't really a PP guy, you aren't going to have a high PPG average period. Especially in the playoffs. It's also when you get those points that matters. Kreider has had plenty of clutch goals in the playoffs. You might want to think more before you become a stat geek.

A winger that's considered a proven playoff performer shouldn't have a similar ppg in his playoff career time frame as juggernauts like Valtteri Filpula, Brent Seabrook, Mattias Ekholm, Andrew Shaw, Ryan Ellis and David Backes.

Points matter, regardless of how you spin it.

My apologies, I thought I quoted you.

Another few questions on the stats:
-How many of those 37 points were because he earned them or someone else created the play and he was just there?

-Of those 37 points in those 77 games, how many multi point games were there? Were they in clumps according to how the whole team was doing?

-How many games was he one of the only ones out there and couldnt register a point?

-Who were the goalies in the games he didn't register a point? Were they hot that night or was the defense holding them up even more?

At this point I'm not gonna further waste my time, I'm just gonna assume you have no idea what I'm saying right now and stop.

Go watch one playoff game where he registers a point, and one he doesn't. Put some thought into why both are so.

over a 77 game sample size with different coaches(if I'm not mistaken), different teammates and different opponents all that levels out. You think Kreiders the only player effected by these things you listed?

The fact of the matter is if you include the playoff run where he shot 17% in 15 games, he's 5th on the rangers in ppg. If you exclude that run he's 11th for Rangers since 14-15, tied with Vesey and behind McDonagh, Boyle, Yandle, Zuccarello, Grabbed, Stepan, Nash, Zabanejad, Brassard.

He's a good player, I'm not trying to say he's garbage, but he isn't a "proven playoff performer".

 

[OVO16]

Ranger fans, a realistic offer you would want from the leafs? Just trying to gage value

 

[Ducks in a row]

My apologies, I thought I quoted you.

Another few questions on the stats:
-How many of those 37 points were because he earned them or someone else created the play and he was just there?

-Of those 37 points in those 77 games, how many multi point games were there? Were they in clumps according to how the whole team was doing?

-How many games was he one of the only ones out there and couldnt register a point?

-Who were the goalies in the games he didn't register a point? Were they hot that night or was the defense holding them up even more?

At this point I'm not gonna further waste my time, I'm just gonna assume you have no idea what I'm saying right now and stop.

Go watch one playoff game where he registers a point, and one he doesn't. Put some thought into why both are so.

Producing in the playoffs is what makes someone a playoff performer and he has 37 points in 77 games that isn't that good. Kreider isn't a playoff performer its that simple. Points matter no matter how much someone tries to downplay them.

 

[CHGoalie27]

Producing in the playoffs is what makes someone a playoff performer and he has 37 points in 77 games that isn't that good. Kreider isn't a playoff performer its that simple. Points matter no matter how much someone tries to downplay them.

Like talking to a wall.
Try answering one of the questions. Just one.

 

[CHGoalie27]

Ranger fans, a realistic offer you would want from the leafs? Just trying to gage value

He's a weird case making him nearly impossible to trade. There really aren't many players like him, and to give us what it would take to get rid of him, only a couple teams are stacked enough to not be too crippled by what they'd have to give. Only deal I could see fair to Toronto is one of your two heavy hitters for Kreider and a first in what would assume to be a contract shedding move for Toronto (and an attempt at NYR getting their classic overpaid underperforming Marquee name)...obviously not happening.