Chris Kelly

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LSCII

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All good points

KIL
Eriksson-Soderberg-Smith
Marchand-Bergeron-Kelly
Paille-Campbell-Thornton

Even better, call up Spooner and bump down Kelly to the 4th.

Would love to see this, but I think we all realize that Kelly is Julien's binky and he's not going to ever do this. It's too bad though, as that line would benefit tremendously from not having Kelly on it.
 

MTaylorJ1

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When the sole reason you're on the team is to be a defensive specialist and you fail, what exactly do you bring? Simple as that. I like the guy, and he's been a decent player, but he's very grossly overpaid right now, and the one area he's usually okay with, he's been off all year. You also want to make it sound like it was one blown assignment. It wasn't. It was three bad plays in a span of 30 seconds, and the end result was him leaving the best player in the game all alone at the goal mouth.

You can dismiss the argument and say it's knee jerk based off the end result last night, but it's not. I've been watching closely, and Kelly has been off all year long. I like him, but at this point there's no way around being honest. He's truly holding the rest of that line back. Bump him down to the 4th line and bring Spooner up. It's what's best for the team.

I just don't get how people can't see it. Smith and Soderberg have shown chemistry with literally every top 9 player they've played with. I'm supposed to believe it's Kelly stirring the drink?

The 3rd line has had the lowest cumulative +/- this season. It had (by far) the lowest cumulative +/- last season. It had (by far) the lowest cumulative +/- in the playoffs last year.

There's been one constant in all of the personnel changes on that unit.
 

bp13

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Have to admit, I'm selling my Kelly stock.

It's not just the Crosby goal, as a blown assignment here or there isn't the end of the world (Marchand can attest to this). But when his strongest attribute, defensive awareness, becomes a concern at the exact same time that his linemates look to be breaking out offensively while he's stagnant, that's a bad sign. I get the sense that a guy like Spooner could turn that third line into another 2nd line, which would make this team downright scary.

End of the day, defensive lapses and turnovers have been this team's biggest problem, and I still feel like Kelly is one of the most sound defensive forwards. However, if we're not going to be the lockdown team we once were, then we need more offense from 3rd line center.
 

LSCII

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I just don't get how people can't see it. Smith and Soderberg have shown chemistry with literally every top 9 player they've played with. I'm supposed to believe it's Kelly stirring the drink?

The 3rd line has had the lowest cumulative +/- this season. It had (by far) the lowest cumulative +/- last season. It had (by far) the lowest cumulative +/- in the playoffs last year.

There's been one constant in all of the personnel changes on that unit.

It would be one thing if this was specific to just this year. It's not. He's was playing at a poor level all last season too. The sample size is great enough, and I've seen all I need to see. He's got to get bumped down because he's no longer doing the little things that allowed you to overlook the lack of offense.
 

Minny Shinny

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When the sole reason you're on the team is to be a defensive specialist and you fail, what exactly do you bring? Simple as that. I like the guy, and he's been a decent player, but he's very grossly overpaid right now, and the one area he's usually okay with, he's been off all year. You also want to make it sound like it was one blown assignment. It wasn't. It was three bad plays in a span of 30 seconds, and the end result was him leaving the best player in the game all alone at the goal mouth.

You can dismiss the argument and say it's knee jerk based off the end result last night, but it's not. I've been watching closely, and Kelly has been off all year long. I like him, but at this point there's no way around being honest. He's truly holding the rest of that line back. Bump him down to the 4th line and bring Spooner up. It's what's best for the team.

For the bolded.....Which is funny, because I've watched that line just as closely as anybody and I think he's absolutely playing better than he was last year. He's got the extra burst of speed that was missing last year with the leg frax, he's more responsible with the puck this year than last, and is showing a fair amount of touch that was missing last year in the constant shuffling of linemates. I'm always amused when I see the argument that Spooner will make that line more effective, which is based purely on speculation (and should I remind folks that in Spooner's 2 points in 2 games tryout, the guy to get the primary assist on one of those goals came from the stick as a result of a sweet touch pass by none other than Stone Hands Kelly), rather than the relative amount of success we're actually seen unfold, in actual game play, on a relatively consistent basis in the games Soderberg-Kelly-Smith have played together. So tell me, what to you is "off" for Kelly?

As for the underlined that Spooner is indeed what's best for the team....should I remind people again that Spooner was benched for the second half of the first period in Providence's last game for effectively sucking wind in the defensive zone?

Now, the difference between me and others is that I don't think that one example of ****** defense makes Spooner a cast-off. He's still going to be an excellent player in this league.

A bad defensive game doesn't discount the good work Spooner has done in Providence.

A bad defensive game doesn't discount the good work Kelly's done this year on the third line.

Works both ways, folks. I can recognize that argument.

Can you?
 

PB37

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I can't wait until the Bruins move on from Kelly. The guy has been an anchor on the third line for over a year now. And not the good kind.
 

MTaylorJ1

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For the bolded.....Which is funny, because I've watched that line just as closely as anybody and I think he's absolutely playing better than he was last year. He's got the extra burst of speed that was missing last year with the leg frax, he's more responsible with the puck this year than last, and is showing a fair amount of touch that was missing last year in the constant shuffling of linemates. I'm always amused when I see the argument that Spooner will make that line more effective, which is based purely on speculation (and should I remind folks that in Spooner's 2 points in 2 games tryout, the guy to get the primary assist on one of those goals came from the stick as a result of a sweet touch pass by none other than Stone Hands Kelly), rather than the relative amount of success we're actually seen unfold, in actual game play, on a relatively consistent basis in the games Soderberg-Kelly-Smith have played together.

As for the underlined that Spooner is indeed what's best for the team....should I remind people again that Spooner was benched for the second half of the first period in Providence's last game for effectively sucking wind in the defensive zone?

Now, the difference between me and others is that I don't think that one example of ****** defense makes Spooner a cast-off. He's still going to be an excellent player in this league.

A bad defensive game doesn't discount the good work Spooner has done in Providence.

A bad defensive game doesn't discount the good work Kelly's done this year on the third line.

Works both ways, folks. I can recognize that argument.

Can you?

Sweet touch pass? He redirected it to a streaking uncovered player. Literally (not literally but really meaning figuratively) every player in beer league hockey can make that pass. It was a simple touch pass. The stretch pass by Spooner was the play there. Just what the team needed. But golf clap to 23 for not flubbing it like he did last night when Soderberg tried to feed him to send him and Eriksson on a 2 on 1 and luckily it went straight through to Eriksson instead.

He didn't have a burst of speed before the leg frax. He's paid $3m a year to deal with the shuffling of linemates. He's allegedly the anchor, now he needs to get used to linemates?

Also, I don't want to get into the folly of comparing the defensive games of a rookie with huge offensive upside and a defensive specialist with no offensive upside. If the 3rd line is going to be a net neutral at even strength (which is about what they've been so far) I want them developing Spooner at the NHL level.
 

Flannelman

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Dec 3, 2006
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I'm a fan of Chris Kelly - but have always seen his salary as a luxury in this cap world. That said, I think there's a place for him on this team this year but that doesn't mean there isn't room for Mr. Spooner, too. Moving Kelly to the 4th line and scratching Thornton. Moving Spooner into 3rd line minutes with Ca-Rule and Smitty.

What are the TOI implications?

Chris Kelly has been getting about 15 minutes per game, 13 ES minutes and about 2 PK minutes per game. I don't think we'll see the PK time drop. Paille and Soupy are usually around the 9 minute marker for ES TOI. That line could potentially be better with Kelly on it and Kelly could be more rested (perhaps improving his overall game, not that he's looked exhausted out there) and garner more PK TOI. I don't think we're looking at a dramatic difference for him.

Is 11 to 13 ES minutes per game enough for Spooner? Rather, how much more scoring can the third line yield with Spooner in the lineup? Let me be clear, I don't think Kelly is a poor passer - but I think from a skill-set perspective, Spooner has better offensive awareness and he's got some decent hands - I think it is fair to think that he can put more pucks on more tape which should lead to more scoring chances.

Soder-Kelly-Smith have 11 goals in over 800 minutes of ES TOI - meaning 1 goal every 75 minutes or so. They've been better as of late.

Cap implications?

Ratty made a really good point yesterday *may have been a different thread* that the money is already accounted for - we're going to have Kelly's cap hit if it is 15 minutes TOI/G or 12. My own opinion is it doesn't matter what line the guy plays on so long as the team can be as productive in scoring and efficient in defense as possible.

Spooner's cap hit is 870K (760K w/out bonuses). I'm not a capologist so I'm not going to pretend to try. But I do know that calling him up would likely necessitate a trade/move (Caron) to free up a roster spot (Caron would free up 640K). This type of a transaction would not greatly eat into the trade-deadline cap space - so there would still be around that 2M mark for PC to address any deficiencies.

End result: I think the argument can be made either way. But we need to look at this from a different lens. Most posts seems to relate to the individual player, we need to look at this from the perspective of the team. To me, what I've attempted to outline in the above is that both the players and the team can benefit from Kelly playing a more important defensive role and Spooner contributing with more potential offense.
 
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LSCII

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For the bolded.....Which is funny, because I've watched that line just as closely as anybody and I think he's absolutely playing better than he was last year. He's got the extra burst of speed that was missing last year with the leg frax, he's more responsible with the puck this year than last, and is showing a fair amount of touch that was missing last year in the constant shuffling of linemates. I'm always amused when I see the argument that Spooner will make that line more effective, which is based purely on speculation (and should I remind folks that in Spooner's 2 points in 2 games tryout, the guy to get the primary assist on one of those goals came from the stick as a result of a sweet touch pass by none other than Stone Hands Kelly), rather than the relative amount of success we're actually seen unfold, in actual game play, on a relatively consistent basis in the games Soderberg-Kelly-Smith have played together.

As for the underlined that Spooner is indeed what's best for the team....should I remind people again that Spooner was benched for the second half of the first period in Providence's last game for effectively sucking wind in the defensive zone?

Now, the difference between me and others is that I don't think that one example of ****** defense makes Spooner a cast-off. He's still going to be an excellent player in this league.

A bad defensive game doesn't discount the good work Spooner has done in Providence.

A bad defensive game doesn't discount the good work Kelly's done this year on the third line.

Works both ways, folks. I can recognize that argument.

Can you?

So comparing Kelly of this year to last year is what your baseline is? That's your problem. Last year he was so bad, I don't know how they didn't use the compliance buyout option on him this summer, tbh. So saying he's looked better is hilarious to me, since there was nowhere to go but up. That being said, is he looking more like Kelly of old, or just better than the bag of suck he was last season? I see it as being slightly better than last year, but not worthy of a spot on the third line.

It's amusing to me that you go so far out of your way to defend Kelly and continually blame his line mates from last year. The reason they constantly shuffled line mates on that line last year was because he was so colossally bad, that they needed to. And no matter who went down there, he played lousy hockey.

Let me ask you this. Do you see the chemistry Soda and Smith have right now? Now ask yourself if Kelly is doing anything to help or improve that offense? To me the answer is more than obvious. Spooner may come in and flame out, but I've seen more than enough of Kelly and his sub par play the last two seasons to want to see someone else get a shot. The whole concept of scoring by committee only works if there are three lines that can score. Right now, they're down a line.
 

BadBruins

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Soderberg and Smith are sitting there on pace for 55 points. You see the damage they've been doing on the PP, 4 on 4, and in Smith's case on the 2nd line. I won't discount the good things Kelly does at ES, but he's merely a passenger on that line when it comes to generating offense. It's PJ Axelsson all over again.
 

DominicT

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I'm not one to say what a coach should/should not do - not most of the time anyway :laugh:

First, keep in mind that I believe Spooner is NHL ready, and would likely be playing on 2/3's on NHL teams. But, this is the Bruins and where he fits is the biggest ???

That said, I'd give it a couple of more games if it were up to me and the switch I'd make is Marchand and Soderberg if a switch needs to be made by then.

I like (and I'm sure the Bruins brass do to) what little cap flexibility they have right now in case it's needed because of an injury or something that comes along at trade deadline to improve the team. Bringing up Spooner to sit another forward and have two on the ninth floor is a waste of that precious little space we have/may need.
 

PB37

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So comparing Kelly of this year to last year is what your baseline is? That's your problem. Last year he was so bad, I don't know how they didn't use the compliance buyout option on him this summer, tbh. So saying he's looked better is hilarious to me, since there was nowhere to go but up. That being said, is he looking more like Kelly of old, or just better than the bag of suck he was last season? I see it as being slightly better than last year, but not worthy of a spot on the third line.

It's amusing to me that you go so far out of your way to defend Kelly and continually blame his line mates from last year. The reason they constantly shuffled line mates on that line last year was because he was so colossally bad, that they needed to. And no matter who went down there, he played lousy hockey.

Let me ask you this. Do you see the chemistry Soda and Smith have right now? Now ask yourself if Kelly is doing anything to help or improve that offense? To me the answer is more than obvious. Spooner may come in and flame out, but I've seen more than enough of Kelly and his sub par play the last two seasons to want to see someone else get a shot. The whole concept of scoring by committee only works if there are three lines that can score. Right now, they're down a line.

The only reason Kelly wasn't moved was because they found a home for Peverley first. Both were on the trade block. I don't think the Bruins wanted to start the season without a vet on the third line and unfortunately we might have to ride the rest of the season with Kelly there unless his drop in play takes an even steeper dive.
 

LSCII

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I'm not one to say what a coach should/should not do - not most of the time anyway :laugh:

First, keep in mind that I believe Spooner is NHL ready, and would likely be playing on 2/3's on NHL teams. But, this is the Bruins and where he fits is the biggest ???

That said, I'd give it a couple of more games if it were up to me and the switch I'd make is Marchand and Soderberg if a switch needs to be made by then.

I like (and I'm sure the Bruins brass do to) what little cap flexibility they have right now in case it's needed because of an injury or something that comes along at trade deadline to improve the team. Bringing up Spooner to sit another forward and have two on the ninth floor is a waste of that precious little space we have/may need.

Why not move on from Caron or Campbell though? It's not like you keep a guy down who can improve the team just because it would take a creative solution to get him up here. You do what you need to improve the team.

I agree about getting Soderberg and Eriksson together though. They've shown more than enough chemistry in the times they've been out there together.
 

LSCII

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The only reason Kelly wasn't moved was because they found a home for Peverley first. Both were on the trade block. I don't think the Bruins wanted to start the season without a vet on the third line and unfortunately we might have to ride the rest of the season with Kelly there unless his drop in play takes an even steeper dive.

I'd have rather they kept Peverley. More flexibility with him on the roster, even if he's not as good defensively as Kelly. Well, reputation wise, even if he's not really showing that defensive ability all that frequently anymore...:laugh:
 

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When I see how creative and effective Soderberg and Smith have been on the powerplay...it tells me alot of what I need to know.

The third line has been incredible in the puck posession game, I feel like every game they are constantly having long shifts, strong posession, etc....but they never seem to finish in even strength. On the PP though, different story.

It's becoming more and more clear that the make up of the third line this year isn't going to be a checking line, with Smith and Soderberg its going to be a scoring line. Why have a checking center on the line?

Sit Thornton, move Kelly to the fourth line, dispose of Caron in whatever fashion needed. Spooner, Soderberg, Smith.

If you think that line has great puck posession now? Add a guy who can thread the needle.
 

MTaylorJ1

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When I see how creative and effective Soderberg and Smith have been on the powerplay...it tells me alot of what I need to know.

The third line has been incredible in the puck posession game, I feel like every game they are constantly having long shifts, strong posession, etc....but they never seem to finish in even strength. On the PP though, different story.

It's becoming more and more clear that the make up of the third line this year isn't going to be a checking line, with Smith and Soderberg its going to be a scoring line.
Why have a checking center on the line?

Sit Thornton, move Kelly to the fourth line, dispose of Caron in whatever fashion needed. Spooner, Soderberg, Smith.

If you think that line has great puck posession now? Add a guy who can thread the needle.

As it should be. I can't describe how badly I want a replay of the 08-09 3rd line. I think we'll get it next year for sure, but to get that, we needed Krejci to get his feet wet in 07-08. That's what I want to see from Spooner here. 50-55 games. Solid linemates that compliment his game well, insulated by a great lineup around them and a defensive 4th line with 3rd line talent.

If it takes Caron to St. Louis for a Kevin Shattenkirk signed BU Terriers jersey, then so be it.
 

bp13

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Why not move on from Caron or Campbell though? It's not like you keep a guy down who can improve the team just because it would take a creative solution to get him up here. You do what you need to improve the team.

I agree about getting Soderberg and Eriksson together though. They've shown more than enough chemistry in the times they've been out there together.

I don't like the idea of moving Campbell. You've already dealt Ference, McQuaid is a borderline scratch and you're talking about moving Kelly (or may have to). At some point you need to be careful you don't lose the leadership and experience that is a hallmark of this team, not to mention the toughness. Campbell is the first guy in to defend a teammate, and he plays a great 4th line center. I wouldn't move him.

Caron on the other hand...why the hell not.
 

member 96824

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As it should be. I can't describe how badly I want a replay of the 08-09 3rd line. I think we'll get it next year for sure, but to get that, we needed Krejci to get his feet wet in 07-08. That's what I want to see from Spooner here. 50-55 games. Solid linemates that compliment his game well, insulated by a great lineup around them and a defensive 4th line with 3rd line talent.

If it takes Caron to St. Louis for a Kevin Shattenkirk signed BU Terriers jersey, then so be it.

Skimming this post, I missed the jersey and thought you lost your mind Mike :laugh:
 

Roll 4 Lines

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Why not move on from Caron or Campbell though? It's not like you keep a guy down who can improve the team just because it would take a creative solution to get him up here. You do what you need to improve the team.

I agree about getting Soderberg and Eriksson together though. They've shown more than enough chemistry in the times they've been out there together.

A number of reasons, IMO.

1.) I think they have been trying to move Caron, but haven't got much in the way of offers, understandably. ( I have no inside info, other than the rumors we've all read/heard.)

2.) Injuries will happen and the depth is good to have.

3.) Any moves they make would likely happen closer to the deadline for cap reasons.

4.) While Spooner may be ready for the NHL, that doesn't mean he can't still work on things and learn in Providence.

5.) Bruins brass is way more patient than we here at HF Boards!

All that said, I too would like to see Spooner up and getting NHL experience, but it may not be the best move right now.

Again, injuries will happen. Spooner will get his chance, but he is not being hurt by more time in the AHL.
.
 

LSCII

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I don't like the idea of moving Campbell. You've already dealt Ference, McQuaid is a borderline scratch and you're talking about moving Kelly (or may have to). At some point you need to be careful you don't lose the leadership and experience that is a hallmark of this team, not to mention the toughness. Campbell is the first guy in to defend a teammate, and he plays a great 4th line center. I wouldn't move him.

Caron on the other hand...why the hell not.

I was suggesting moving Campbell and bumping Kelly down to his line, but I'm fine if they could find a trade partner for Kelly and kept Campbell. Either way, I think there's a solution to be had in there somewhere, and one that doesn't keep a guy like Spooner (or more importantly, the 3rd line) down offensively because you can't be creative with bottom of the roster type of players. This situation is why overpaying guys like Campbell and Kelly (NTC too, which really blows) is such a bad move.
 

Artemis

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I'm not one to say what a coach should/should not do - not most of the time anyway :laugh:

First, keep in mind that I believe Spooner is NHL ready, and would likely be playing on 2/3's on NHL teams. But, this is the Bruins and where he fits is the biggest ???

That said, I'd give it a couple of more games if it were up to me and the switch I'd make is Marchand and Soderberg if a switch needs to be made by then.

I like (and I'm sure the Bruins brass do to) what little cap flexibility they have right now in case it's needed because of an injury or something that comes along at trade deadline to improve the team. Bringing up Spooner to sit another forward and have two on the ninth floor is a waste of that precious little space we have/may need.

Exactly.

I like Spooner, a lot. But right now it's a perfect recreation of the "everyone loves the backup quarterback" situation.

The insistence that Soderberg and Smith are playing so well and Kelly is nothing but a hindrance is laughable. He's part of that line; the line is playing well. I suspect he may have something to do with it.

Yes, he made a bad play on Crosby. Crosby made a bad play on Krug. It happens to everyone, even the greatest players. When it happens to the resident whipping boy in the closing seconds of a game, of course all hell is going to break loose.
 

TheBigBadB

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I see Kelly as more valuable than Campbell. Moving Kelly down to center the 4th line would be the move I'd make and depending on the opponent switch Thornton/Campbell in and out.

It will not happen though. They are first in the Eastern Conference and findings ways to win. If they hit a bad skid then maybe it would be the time to try it. Right now even when certain players arent their best, you dont want to upset the balance of a winning team.
 

PB37

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Here's a thought: in an effort to move Kelly, would you package Spooner in the deal as well to get back Sobotka and something else ( draft pick )?

Sobotka would be perfect as the third line center who can bring the two way game the Bruins covet as well as the hard working, gritty style of play. He's also been absolute money on the dot: 64 percent and has taken the second most amount of faceoffs for the Blues while on pace for a 40 point season.
 

MTaylorJ1

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Exactly.

I like Spooner, a lot. But right now it's a perfect recreation of the "everyone loves the backup quarterback" situation.

The insistence that Soderberg and Smith are playing so well and Kelly is nothing but a hindrance is laughable. He's part of that line; the line is playing well. I suspect he may have something to do with it.

Yes, he made a bad play on Crosby. Crosby made a bad play on Krug. It happens to everyone, even the greatest players. When it happens to the resident whipping boy in the closing seconds of a game, of course all hell is going to break loose.

Does everyone love Ryan Mallett? Brock Osweiler? I know for a fact that Green Bay fans don't love Scott Tolzien and Matt Flynn.

No, everyone doesn't love the backup QB when the starting QB is a performer. In this case, the "starting QB" is playing more like Matt Schaub. Will the backup be better? No one knows for sure. Is it worth giving it a shot? I think so.

I don't think the idea that Kelly is a hindrance on that line is laughable at all. When you say they're performing well, you mean, they have the worst +/- of all 4 lines right? You do understand that they've shown chemistry with everyone else they've played with. And that the 3rd line has had issues dating back to last year when Kelly played poorly and is the only player returning from that mess?

It's worth debating. Period. This discussion is in no way laughable. And honestly I don't find it funny that our $3m 3C is producing like Campbell since the lockout.
 
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