CHL Players who played AHL Last Season

[Truthking]

Im guessing the majority of drafted prospects would end up in the AHL simply because they have them in house to manage things better. The argument that you have to do what’s best for the kids is a bit silly to me, because who is to say what’s best for everyone. The only argument to me would be if an absolute superstar gets sent back, he has nothing to prove in junior and is just wasting his time, but these kids were talking about now are not in that class. So what is the point of changing that rule right now

 

[Otto]

Im guessing the majority of drafted prospects would end up in the AHL simply because they have them in house to manage things better. The argument that you have to do what’s best for the kids is a bit silly to me, because who is to say what’s best for everyone. The only argument to me would be if an absolute superstar gets sent back, he has nothing to prove in junior and is just wasting his time, but these kids were talking about now are not in that class. So what is the point of changing that rule right now

Teams draft 6-10 players a year, there's no way that the majority stay because of cost and because after 4 years you'd have 24-40 prospects. Teams also don't want the extra expense. not every player on an AHL roster is the property of an NHL team.

If the kids that are eligible now stay in the AHL it's because they are deserving. If they are not good enough they will not stay. They are not going to pay these guys to sit in the press box or wallow away on the 4th line in the AHL if they can be getting top minutes in the OHL it makes zero sense from a development and from a financial standpoint. For the players that are eligible now under this temporary rule it's most likely a max of 5 players and that's because teams have had the opportunity to see these players play at the AHL level. Going forward if a rule was adopted that allowed drafted players play in the AHL before their overage season I'd be shocked if it were more that 2-3 a season for the reason you state.

The NHL wants the rule to change, and the NHLPA wants the rule to change. I'd be surprised if it did unless a lot more money was coming to the CHL

 

[Teflon]

I know your right it is like talking to a wall lol. The arrogance is incredible. I’ve dealt with players ,coaches,agents,parents…. I’m pretty well versed in what goes on. Letting kids leave early is another nail in the coffin! Fans come to see talent, not fillers. Kids a year or 2 from the show allow the ticket prices the O charges. If you think fans pay big bucks to see midget major hockey your mistaken. I’ll sit back and see how this gets spun! Knights fans are good at something after all!!

 

[Otto]

I know your right it is like talking to a wall lol. The arrogance is incredible. I’ve dealt with players ,coaches,agents,parents…. I’m pretty well versed in what goes on. Letting kids leave early is another nail in the coffin! Fans come to see talent, not fillers. Kids a year or 2 from the show allow the ticket prices the O charges. If you think fans pay big bucks to see midget major hockey your mistaken. I’ll sit back and see how this gets spun! Knights fans are good at something after all!!

Fans pay to see competitive hockey. That's why teams with strong programs have no major fluctuations in attendance, and that's why teams without strong programs continue to see declining attendance.

 

[Truthking]

Fans pay to see competitive hockey. That's why teams with strong programs have no major fluctuations in attendance, and that's why teams without strong programs continue to see declining attendance.

So you could take all of the stars out of the league and you wouldn’t see a drop in talent or in on ice product? That’s just a silly comment

 

[Otto]

So you could take all of the stars out of the league and you wouldn’t see a drop in talent or in on ice product? That’s just a silly comment

No, the silly comment is saying that all the stars in the league will be taken out.

 

[Truthking]

No, the silly comment is saying that all the stars in the league will be taken out.

So you think given the choice teams will leave their first rd picks in junior? Zero percent chance. You think they would rather the new face of the franchise plays for the farm club they own, or in Sudbury or north bay or sarnia?
Why do you London guys always need to be right? It’s like a sickness.

 

[Otto]

So you think given the choice teams will leave their first rd picks in junior? Zero percent chance. You think they would rather the new face of the franchise plays for the farm club they own, or in Sudbury or north bay or sarnia?
Why do you London guys always need to be right? It’s like a sickness.

Zero percent chance. Despite the fact that not all NHL teams own their farm team, and you seem to think they want to allow their 1st round picks get to free agency quicker by burying them in the minors.

Its disappointing you feel you're the only one entitled to an opinion.

 

[shot caller]

I will speak with the confidence that there isn’t many other organizations that have a disdain for London like the Sault does; and I don’t know how it started and frankly, I don’t care because it’s enjoyable.
However, I will speak freely due to our win/loss record over London in the last 5 years as I believe it has earned our organization a bit of street-cred! London is arrogant but they damn well have earned it.

If a top tier player is allowed to play in the AHL, as many have already stated, they will be few and far between. So, who cares? I believe it is the groups that do not find themselves in contention year after year.
Let the management and scouting staff plan around this challenge. If you’re team can sustain quality play every year, someone else will take the place and your organization will start to manage accordingly - there shouldn’t be an issue.
If this is going to be more than a one-time rule change, it isn’t the end of the world. It’s probably long over due.

 

[OMG67]

Otto posted an article a few pages back. In that article there were a few scenario’s laid out regarding eligibility of placing CHL players in the AHL.

One of the scenario’s seemed to be good to me. It suggested that each NHL team has one card they can use to transfer an underage CHL player to the AHL for advanced development. They can use that card once every four seasons. That means with 32 NHL teams, the average number of CHL players transferred from the CHL to the AHL early would be 8….across all three leagues. So, about three OHL players per year if the distribution were even across all leagues and across all years.

To me, that makes a lot of sense. The CHL may be the best development league on the Planet but it doesn’t work for all players. We have players that get placed in the NHL too early because the CHL isn’t the right place for them but the player isn’t eligible for the AHL so they go to the NHL early and collect an NHL pay check for participating in practise for four weeks straight while maybe playing 4 minutes in 3 games.

If players were somehow eligible to play in the AHL, I could see players that would normally have gone to the NHL as underage pro’s going to the AHL instead where they can play top 6 or top 4 minutes and develop gradually. There would be less players making the early jump to the NHL. They’ll have a stop at the AHL.

I don’t think it would significantly hurt the CHL. It may hurt a specific team in a specific season but it wouldn’t be detrimental to the overall developmental capabilities of the CHL to lose an average of 8 players per year. The level of competition would still be more than high enough to maintain that upward thrust of development through high performance competition.

In addition, with the continued influx of American born players into the league, there is already a talent push coming into the CHL. As the American programs continue to churn out top level players and the sport continues to grow in the USA, it should translate into more and more players jumping into CHL programs. We should be able to find a balance over time. Worse case scenario, if the CHL feels there is a talent gap, they can add an additional OA or Import roster spot to help fuel the top end of the performance areas of the league.

I think this would significantly help a small handful of players develop without restrictions. Those players do need those opportunities for their own professional development. The league shouldn’t be standing in the way of “Exceptional Status” CHL players. They should afford the right opportunities at the right time because that is what is best for the players and if this is a developmental league then they should bang the developmental drum.

 

[Teflon]

I have no problem if the rules are altered in the off season before teams begin preparing for the next season. My issue is teams have started prep for next season, there is a deal in place where this isn’t allowed, it would have to be modified. Shot you say they earned the ability to be arrogant? I’d say there’s no need , your teams been good? Savour that and move on! Arrogance has become the norm because people can’t be held accountable for running their mouth! My entire argument is based on the timing this year, no other issue with it. What’s next is another concern, the nhl decides they want other concessions and the CHL just agrees?!?!

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

I have no problem if the rules are altered in the off season before teams begin preparing for the next season. My issue is teams have started prep for next season, there is a deal in place where this isn’t allowed, it would have to be modified.

At what point in the off season are teams not prepping for next season though?

There’s never really a convenient time for this for the teams. Barrie’s been waiting for this season since they traded Suzuki and Tucker and acquired Vierling and Cardwell, but how they lose Foerster. Sarnia has been waiting since ‘97 and they finally had their guy that they thought could help them.

But it’s the right move for the players. It sucks for some teams, but there’s never a time where you could make this change where it wouldn’t suck for some teams.

 

[Teflon]

Sure there is. Before the draft! Does no one remember the argument of 18 year olds playing against men every night?? There’s a ton of arguments against this. Frankly is A hockey so much better than good O hockey for an 18 year old? There’s lots of cons to this move. How many of these players so desperately need the pay check that this move trumps what’s worked for so long?

 

[Truthking]

It seems to me that if the argument is this move is best for players, then couldn’t Shane Wright say playing in the A right now would be better for his development?

 

[OMG67]

It seems to me that if the argument is this move is best for players, then couldn’t Shane Wright say playing in the A right now would be better for his development?

I think you need to be 18 to play in that league. But, based on the spirit of your post, yes, if Shane Wright were good enough to compete in the AHL, the possibility exists that would be a better place for him.

He’d have to be signed as a free agent though since he isn’t drafted.

 

[Truthking]

I think you need to be 18 to play in that league. But, based on the spirit of your post, yes, if Shane Wright were good enough to compete in the AHL, the possibility exists that would be a better place for him.

He’d have to be signed as a free agent though since he isn’t drafted.

I suppose that was what used to occur in the WHA days. I’m not necessarily opposed to this change, but I’m just unsure about how you determine where to draw the line. If it’s ok for 19 year olds, why isn’t it ok for 18 year olds (seeing as that was what happened this past year)
Couldn’t Mctavish or Clarke make the argument that they should get to leave this year and how do you tell them what is in their best interests?

 

[Otto]

I have no problem if the rules are altered in the off season before teams begin preparing for the next season. My issue is teams have started prep for next season, there is a deal in place where this isn’t allowed, it would have to be modified. Shot you say they earned the ability to be arrogant? I’d say there’s no need , your teams been good? Savour that and move on! Arrogance has become the norm because people can’t be held accountable for running their mouth! My entire argument is based on the timing this year, no other issue with it. What’s next is another concern, the nhl decides they want other concessions and the CHL just agrees?!?!

Every post you make you "run your mouth" You are extremely intolerant of other people's opinions and right away you take a combative stance

Ok tough guy, show me where, before this post did I "run my mouth"?

 

[EvenSteven]

I think you need to be 18 to play in that league. But, based on the spirit of your post, yes, if Shane Wright were good enough to compete in the AHL, the possibility exists that would be a better place for him.

He’d have to be signed as a free agent though since he isn’t drafted.

Back in the day, Radek Bonk played in the IHL in his NHL draft season.

I know it isn’t the A, but thought I’d mention it.

 

[BadgerBruce]

The CHL has very little leverage here.

The NHL/CHL Agreement gives the CHL a hall pass other junior leagues do not have. If the NHL flatout says, “here’s the wiggle room we want to assign some players to the AHL,” there’s not a whole lot the CHL can do about it.

The existing NHL/CHL agreement only has legal weight because it is referenced in the NHL-NHLPA Collective Bargaining Agreement; without this reference, it’s illegal restraint of trade, which both John Tonelli and Ken Linseman successfully argued in Ontario and US courts 45 years ago.

The short legal version is you can’t create rules explicitly preventing an adult from making a living. The NHL-CHL Agreement is a workaround; the NHL’s other agreements are with governing bodies (USA Hockey, for instance) and there’s no prohibition on AHL participation in any of them. If the CHL actually withdrew from the agreement, 18 year olds would be free to turn pro. That’s the law.

I’m not saying the rules are going to change. But OHL teams all draft 15 players out of minor midget every year, then hold U18 and Euro drafts. That’s a lot of players each year when the league has players from 5 birth years. If something in the neighbourhood of 4-6 play in the AHL instead, I suspect the OHL sky won’t fall.

 

[HockeyPops]

The agreement already needed changing, that much was clear. But the extent of how much it needed changing was not really known until we had all these young OHLers excelling in the AHL. That was an experiment not tried before.

We already had OHL players not returning, and I'm not just talking about the NHL ready players. Remember Arizona holding onto Barrett Hayton, even though they barely gave him any games? I wish this amendment was in place then, so that at least he would have been able to play in the AHL, instead of just sit in an NHL press box the whole season.

NHL teams are going to do what's best for NHL teams. But they have a vested interest in improving and stabilizing the development system for their top prospects where they can. That was the whole point about having the agreement in the first place. OHL teams will be fine (of course more money will flow from the NHL as a result). Even if the Soo loses Ryan O'Rourke this season as a result, I can't say I disagree with this. He has proven he belongs at the AHL level, and it would be in his best interest to be able to continue to grow and develop there.

 

[Truthking]

NHL teams are going to do what's best for NHL teams. But they have a vested interest in improving and stabilizing the development system for their top prospects where they can. That was the whole point about having the agreement in the first place. OHL teams will be fine (of course more money will flow from the NHL as a result). Even if the Soo loses Ryan O'Rourke this season as a result, I can't say I disagree with this. He has proven he belongs at the AHL level, and it would be in his best interest to be able to continue to grow and develop there.

They do have a vested interest, but given the track record of most teams, they don’t always know what is best for the player, nor do they really care about that player other then what he can do for them.

 

[dirty12]

The agreement already needed changing, that much was clear. But the extent of how much it needed changing was not really known until we had all these young OHLers excelling in the AHL. That was an experiment not tried before.

We already had OHL players not returning, and I'm not just talking about the NHL ready players. Remember Arizona holding onto Barrett Hayton, even though they barely gave him any games? I wish this amendment was in place then, so that at least he would have been able to play in the AHL, instead of just sit in an NHL press box the whole season.

NHL teams are going to do what's best for NHL teams. But they have a vested interest in improving and stabilizing the development system for their top prospects where they can. That was the whole point about having the agreement in the first place. OHL teams will be fine (of course more money will flow from the NHL as a result). Even if the Soo loses Ryan O'Rourke this season as a result, I can't say I disagree with this. He has proven he belongs at the AHL level, and it would be in his best interest to be able to continue to grow and develop there.

I agree with pretty much everything in your post. Though it might have had a different narrative had the first year of this change occurred when Hayton made the leap to the NHL because it was the best option available for his growth and development. Soo fans were not pleased with Arizona. I believe a change was needed too, but at the same time kind of sympathize with a few teams that are the first that could lose a top player to the AHL in a contending year.

 

[Teflon]

It happened a few years back to Windsor I believe twice actually. Fischer stayed in Arizona and Bailey on the Islanders. Again, if it was within the rules at that time fine. This is an amendment after decisions have been made with regard to players and needs. That’s my only beef with this.

 

[hockeylegend11]

It happened a few years back to Windsor I believe twice actually. Fischer stayed in Arizona and Bailey on the Islanders. Again, if it was within the rules at that time fine. This is an amendment after decisions have been made with regard to players and needs. That’s my only beef with this.

Actually it happened 3 times,Josh Bailey was the 1st time, though he made the Islanders,was replaced by Loktionov that season, Windsor goes on to win their 1st Mem Cup,then the following year it was Loktionov at 19 who got sent to the American League by LA Kings instead of Windsor,and the Spits went on to win the Mem Cup again as Scott Timmins returned as an oa and Windsor went and got Zach Kassian in a trade to help with the win.
Christian Fischer like Loktionov was sent to AHL by Arizona the year Windsor was hosting Mem Cup 2017,and Windsor again for the 3rd time won the Mem Cup when losing a player early twice players to American League.
The 1 year here under Rocky Thompson Fischer finished with 90 pts on 67 games.
Geez maybe Windsor should lose Foudy to Colorado and the AHL this year and win the Cup again ha ha.

 

[Teflon]

Thanks legend. That’s the kind of info I like! Yep forgot about Loki.