Prospect Info: CHL, NCAA and European 2019-20 Prospects Thread III

[Triumph]

This has been a shift in philosophy - not with just the Devils or hockey but in sports in general (and not on a good way). My hunch is based largely on economics.

in the better years of the franchise the AHL was referred to as Lou U, where young players or even highly-touted prospects from other organizations who had failed there, went to develop into competent and productive NHL players.

There are probably six or more current Devils that likely should have had more time - either in junior, university and/or the AHL - before playing in New Jersey.

This was merely the Devils having so many good players that they could afford to do this. Teams rarely amass this much talent and when they do, it usually doesn't last for that long. Lou U ended - Gomez went directly to the NHL, Mike Commodore played more NHL games for the Devils than AHL games for Albany, Gionta went into the NHL after a half-season in the AHL, David Hale and Paul Martin jumped right into the NHL, Zajac went directly to the NHL, Henrique spent a season in the AHL, and Severson went directly to the NHL.

It would've been nice had there been sufficient talent above some of these players such that they could've been kept in the minors. But there wasn't.

 

[Billdo]

I think a lot of it has to do with outright skill too. It's a younger faster game.

 

[Zippy316]

If a player has to spend an "extended" time in the AHL, chances are they aren't ever going to be a good NHL player.

While generally this is the case, Binghamton has had so many young forwards these past few years that some AHL forwards may break this trend. Due to a numbers game, it's tough for some guys to both get an NHL call-up and playing time in the AHL.

I'm genuinely interested if Sharangovich and Maltsev can carve out roles as bottom six utility forwards. Same for Zetterlund, Gignac, and Studenic as they have interesting packages of speed and skill.

Generally, what you want to see is your young players either call up and look like they belong (see Henrique in 2011-12 or Mark Fayne in 2010-2011) or make it impossible for the NHL team to send them to down out of camp (Coleman in 2017-18 or Wood in 2016-17).

 

[DevilsFanMT]

Anyone have good info on Case McCarthy? Trying to get a good read on where he fits among some of our other incoming D prospects

 

[NJ Fan 12]

Anyone have good info on Case McCarthy? Trying to get a good read on where he fits among some of our other incoming D prospects

Not a ton of information other than the basics - product of the NTDP so he's had a head start on some of the other junior and college players. Decent first season for a mediocre (for them) BU program. Full-time minutes in college as a 19-year-old is a good start. Also invited to USA's junior showcase (assuming it is still held).

The coming season should provide a lot more on his future.

 

[NJ Fan 12]

This was merely the Devils having so many good players that they could afford to do this. Teams rarely amass this much talent and when they do, it usually doesn't last for that long. Lou U ended - Gomez went directly to the NHL, Mike Commodore played more NHL games for the Devils than AHL games for Albany, Gionta went into the NHL after a half-season in the AHL, David Hale and Paul Martin jumped right into the NHL, Zajac went directly to the NHL, Henrique spent a season in the AHL, and Severson went directly to the NHL.

It would've been nice had there been sufficient talent above some of these players such that they could've been kept in the minors. But there wasn't.

I'm not sure that is true.

I just went back and took a look at the roster from the last Stanley Cup championship team in 2002-03 and other than the guys who were obtained in trades or free agency pretty much everyone who came up through the system other than Scott Neidermayer spent significant time in the AHL.

John Madden, who played four years of college hockey, played two seasons in the AHL.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

guys like Madden and Coleman are the exceptions, not the rule though

 

[DevilsFanMT]

I'm not sure that is true.

I just went back and took a look at the roster from the last Stanley Cup championship team in 2002-03 and other than the guys who were obtained in trades or free agency pretty much everyone who came up through the system other than Scott Neidermayer spent significant time in the AHL.

John Madden, who played four years of college hockey, played two seasons in the AHL.

I think that's a good point - they do seem to be the exception as opposed to the rule

 

[NJ Fan 12]

guys like Madden and Coleman are the exceptions, not the rule though

Check for yourself. Even Rupp, who was the hero in the Cup clincher, spent two and a half seasons in the AHL.

New Jersey Devils 2002-03 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

yeah but Mike Rupp was never anything more than a 4th liner

guys that spend a decent amount of time can still play in the league sure but chances are they will never become anything more than a role player

 

[NJ Fan 12]

yeah but Mike Rupp was never anything more than a 4th liner

guys that spend a decent amount of time can still play in the league sure but chances are they will never become anything more than a role player

Didn't actually look at the roster. Patrik Elias is a border line HOF player and most of the others were prominent players. All played between 60-150 games in the AHL except Neidermayer and Gomez. And Rafalski spent three years in Finland after his college career.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I mean, I know the roster. I am a Devils fan after all.

We're talking about 25+ years ago with some of that stuff (Elias was drafted in 1994). My original point was that nowadays, guys that spend a long time in the AHL are more than likely never going to amount to much in the NHL.

 

[Triumph]

I'm not sure that is true.

I just went back and took a look at the roster from the last Stanley Cup championship team in 2002-03 and other than the guys who were obtained in trades or free agency pretty much everyone who came up through the system other than Scott Neidermayer spent significant time in the AHL.

John Madden, who played four years of college hockey, played two seasons in the AHL.

Scott Gomez didn't play any time in the AHL. Rafalski was signed as an undrafted free agent but he spent no time in the minors either. The thing is that the existence of a player like John Madden has made it so that teams don't overlook undrafted collegians anymore, even guys who seem like their games may not fully adapt to the pros. In today's game, there's just no way that a player like John Madden would crush the AHL at age 23 (he was actually 25 but that wasn't discovered until later) and barely get a call up. That's just not really how things operate any more. Teams scout college teams and most of the top scorers get a pro contract of some sort.

 

[NJ Fan 12]

I mean, I know the roster. I am a Devils fan after all.

We're talking about 25+ years ago with some of that stuff (Elias was drafted in 1994). My original point was that nowadays, guys that spend a long time in the AHL are more than likely never going to amount to much in the NHL.

Your point is correct. But that has more to do with the CBA than it does with player deve!opment.

Having three years for a 19/20-year-old to be NHL -ready or two years for college of Europeans allows little emphasis on technical or tactical development and relies more on younger players pretty much as is.

 

[NJ Fan 12]

In today's game, there's just no way that a player like John Madden would crush the AHL at age 23 (he was actually 25 but that wasn't discovered until later) and barely get a call up. That's just not really how things operate any more. Teams scout college teams and most of the top scorers get a pro contract of some sort.

Depending on that player's contract status - and the depth of the organization in which he plays - there's a strong chance he may not end up in the NHL. With the advent of players on one-way contracts and lucrative contracts available in the KHL many players who otherwise might be in the NHL are elsewhere.

 

[Triumph]

Depending on that player's contract status - and the depth of the organization in which he plays - there's a strong chance he may not end up in the NHL. With the advent of players on one-way contracts and lucrative contracts available in the KHL many players who otherwise might be in the NHL are elsewhere.

What? Who is doing that? North American players go to the KHL, yes, but usually after they have tried the minor leagues for a while first. I can't think of anyone who had NHL offers out of college and went overseas instead.

 

[NJ Fan 12]

Was referring to European players.- particularly some of the top Finnish and Swedish players as well as Russians who would rather stay in Europe if there is the potential of playing in the AHL.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[thethinglonger]

Anyone have good info on Case McCarthy? Trying to get a good read on where he fits among some of our other incoming D prospects

Here's an interview with Kathryn Yates, Director of Analytics for Boston University r.e. McCarthy

The Future Five: Productive Uneventfulness — Devils in the Details

 

[tailfins]

Here's an interview with Kathryn Yates, Director of Analytics for Boston University r.e. McCarthy

The Future Five: Productive Uneventfulness — Devils in the Details

Thanks. Very informative.

 

[Devils731]

Q & A with Devils top prospect Ty Smith: ‘I want to make the team next year, and make an impact'

“When scouts talk about you, they say you’re going to get better and better as you get stronger. Your listed size is 5-11, 179. Is putting on weight and adding muscle one of your immediate priorities?

For sure. A lot of the guys in the NHL are full-grown men who are big and strong, and they hit hard.“

After all the Hughes/Kakko discussion I can’t see a discussion about prospects playing against big men without laughing.

There is a nice story about his 8 point game in there too.

 

[My3Sons]

Q & A with Devils top prospect Ty Smith: ‘I want to make the team next year, and make an impact'

“When scouts talk about you, they say you’re going to get better and better as you get stronger. Your listed size is 5-11, 179. Is putting on weight and adding muscle one of your immediate priorities?

For sure. A lot of the guys in the NHL are full-grown men who are big and strong, and they hit hard.“

After all the Hughes/Kakko discussion I can’t see a discussion about prospects playing against big men without laughing.

There is a nice story about his 8 point game in there too.

Based on the story you linked and the story linked within that story, it appears that Smith had 4 goals and 13 assists in 21 games before the WJC and 15 goals and 27 assists in 28 games afterwards. That is some amazing improvement if my math is correct. He obviously found another gear. Hopefully he adjusts quickly to the increased pace of the pro game.

 

[Nubmer6]

Based on the story you linked and the story linked within that story, it appears that Smith had 4 goals and 13 assists in 21 games before the WJC and 15 goals and 27 assists in 28 games afterwards. That is some amazing improvement if my math is correct. He obviously found another gear. Hopefully he adjusts quickly to the increased pace of the pro game.

I read somewhere that he was injured in the WHL playoffs the previous season and it was still bothering him in our camp and the beginning of his WHL season. Supposedly he picked it up after he was fully recovered.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I'm still blaming Hynes for his bad camp. It didn't look like someone who was playing injured. He looked completely lost. Probably cuz of the Hynes system, you know