Prospect Info: CHL, NCAA and European 2018-19 Prospects Thread

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Zippy316

aka Zippo
Aug 17, 2012
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Just for some background on goalies in the NHL who went the NAHL -- skipping over USNTDP goalies -- route and their respective draft year.

Craig Anderson (1/2 of his draft year)
Ben Bishop (draft +1 year)
Phoenix Copley (draft +1 year)
Connor Hellebuyck (draft +1 year)
Keith Kinkaid (draft +1 year)

It's also becoming more common for NHL teams to draft a couple overage NAHL goalies each year. Hellebuyck and Bishop are by far the biggest success stories there as both were drafted to NHL teams after a draft +1 year in the NAHL.
 
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Darkauron

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There was nothing wrong with the pick at the time. He was considered one of the best euro goalies available and a good pick there. Not to mention we could use another goalie prospect. There really is nothing wrong what we did there
 
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Triumph

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My point is when you have only so many draft picks to fill needs you don't have the luxary to gamble on a player as you would if you were had a ton of draft picks ahead of that 5th pick. You might go with a more safe bet than a high risk. Instead of trying to understand my point I was making he decided to be a dick about it.

I understand your point. My point is that, again, that's not a position that's tenable - a team can't 'fill needs' with 5th round picks. Players picked that low are very unlikely to become NHL players, and often don't even become AHL ones. The goal here is to take the best player and hope that they develop into something. There aren't any 'safe bets' in the 5th round - the Devils took the closest thing to it in Sharangovich 6 picks later, a guy who has some success in the KHL and is 2 years overage, but that certainly doesn't fill any needs.
 

thethinglonger

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So I've been watching the Spokane Chiefs game so far tonight. It's about halfway through the 2nd period. Smith has been extremely impressive in his reads and play-making. He's getting a whole lot of ice-time in all situations (top-pairing, PP, PK). I love how aggressive he's playing in joining offensive rushes. One particular play stands out. Spokane had just taken a 4 minute penalty, and Smith is out there on the PK. A Spokane forward had a short-handed breakaway opportunity and Smith jumped up to try to get a rebound. He ended up drawing a penalty. He's such a smart player.

On the powerplay, Smith is clearly the go-to guy. One area he could improve on is his shot velocity because teams definitely respect his shot, but they know he's much more of a pass-first guy. He distributes the puck really smoothly and can definitely run a Powerplay, especially a 1-3-1 one. He's not afraid to be aggressive in the offensive zone, including a toe-drag attempt that didn't lead to anything, but hey why not try it? One more thing of note was that on the powerplay, he had some incredible keep-ins as well as reads/pinches along the blueline.

He had a slow start to the game and got his pocket picked while skating the puck out of the defensive zone. He looked a bit too lackadaisical on that play, and has since corrected it. That being said, Smith should have at least two points already in this game. In the second period alone, he's created two high-danger scoring chances in the form of a backdoor pass in the offensive zone to a streaking forward in addition to a beautiful stretch pass through traffic to the tape of a forward on the breakaway. I haven't noticed him too much, defensively, which is a good thing. All in all, this game isn't out of the ordinary for Smith. His intelligence is so noticeable on the ice, and I still can't believe we managed to pick him.

Spokane just scored on the powerplay and Smith registered a secondary assist. He is absolutely the straw that stirs the drink in Spokane...and for anybody wondering, he is wearing the "C".
 

RememberTheName

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I remember an article coming out, where players from the CHL were asked out of all of the prospects, who has the biggest potential to be a captain.

Smith was the only one to get more than one vote
 
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Lou is God

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I understand your point. My point is that, again, that's not a position that's tenable - a team can't 'fill needs' with 5th round picks. Players picked that low are very unlikely to become NHL players, and often don't even become AHL ones. The goal here is to take the best player and hope that they develop into something. There aren't any 'safe bets' in the 5th round - the Devils took the closest thing to it in Sharangovich 6 picks later, a guy who has some success in the KHL and is 2 years overage, but that certainly doesn't fill any needs.
I know the whole BPA approach and I buy into it, but you're telling me all teams practice it from the first pick till the last? I've been following two drafts religiously for the last 30 years, the NHL and NFL, and I've seen countless teams and GMs draft for need, even teams that I thought were strictly BPA. My post wasn't advocating the drafting for needs approach or any approch for that matter, my post was dealing with reality of what I've seen.
 

Triumph

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I know the whole BPA approach and I buy into it, but you're telling me all teams practice it from the first pick till the last? I've been following two drafts religiously for the last 30 years, the NHL and NFL, and I've seen countless teams and GMs draft for need, even teams that I thought were strictly BPA. My post wasn't advocating the drafting for needs approach or any approch for that matter, my post was dealing with reality of what I've seen.

This isn't about BPA. I was going to ask about you following drafts in the NFL because I agree that NFL drafts are more about picking for need, but in the NHL, I don't really think teams do that much in the lower rounds because they know that odds are their lower round picks aren't going to go pro for 2 more years and there are only 4 real positions in the NHL as opposed to I don't know, 14 in the NFL?. Schmid might've been a pick for need, actually; the Devils' goaltending depth stinks. But there's still not going to be any safe picks down there.
 

Lou is God

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This isn't about BPA. I was going to ask about you following drafts in the NFL because I agree that NFL drafts are more about picking for need, but in the NHL, I don't really think teams do that much in the lower rounds because they know that odds are their lower round picks aren't going to go pro for 2 more years and there are only 4 real positions in the NHL as opposed to I don't know, 14 in the NFL?. Schmid might've been a pick for need, actually; the Devils' goaltending depth stinks. But there's still not going to be any safe picks down there.
No, its true the NFL will pick more need because they have more positions to feel, the NHL (like the NBA) really doesn't. But the other problem is some of these teams can be so clueless that you have no idea if the player they picked was, in their minds, BPA or for need.
 

Jabs102501

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Don't really like the use of Phoenix Copley as an example after that performance against us lmao
 

Blackjack

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Yeah I know what round he was drafted in but you're wrong if you think him being third player taken, if we had multiple picks in say 3rd and 4th and Schmid was our 7th player drafted, that's a difference as opposed the being the third player taken because you have less to gamble with.

We talked about this a lot when Jesper Bratt happened last year, and someone in the Devils from office explained it.

The first couple of rounds of the draft are blue chip prospects or high profile kids that everyone knows. As you get later in the draft, the guys getting picked might only have been scouted by one or two teams. That explains how we got Bratt with a 6th. It's not that other teams saw him and made a formal determination that he was too small or didn't play a North American game or whatever, he just wasn't heavily scouted at all.

So yeah, it absolutely matters if a guy is the 3rd guy you take in a draft, even if he's a 5th rounder. That means he was at the top of the heap of non blue-chip prospects in our scouts' eyes. That does sound kind of funny, but it makes sense.
 
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devilsblood

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I know the whole BPA approach and I buy into it, but you're telling me all teams practice it from the first pick till the last? I've been following two drafts religiously for the last 30 years, the NHL and NFL, and I've seen countless teams and GMs draft for need, even teams that I thought were strictly BPA. My post wasn't advocating the drafting for needs approach or any approch for that matter, my post was dealing with reality of what I've seen.
Shero is on record saying he's drafted for need in a recent draft. Was it Walsh? and Shero later said they had Pop's rated higher, but they needed a d-man?

I also think Dev's went fwd heavy by design, especially in early rounds, in Shero's first couple years here. The abundance of later round d makes me think a draft philosophy was at play there as well.

Might as well throw in the goalie angle too, as Shero has drafted one every year he's been here.
 

devilsblood

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The Devils took Sharangovich with their next pick in the 5th round - he looks like he's an okay pro, but he might decide tomorrow to go back to the KHL. That's life in the 5th round.
This is an aside from the point of your discussion, and it was probably just a throw in line by you, but I think the fact that Sharangovich is from Belarus, and is not Russian, makes it much less likely that he goes back to the KHL. I don't know the politics between the 2 countries, but just the fact that he's not actually Russian makes me think the Russian factor is not a major concern.

Also the fact that he came right over and his twitter seemed to be very excited about being part of the organization.
 

Devils Dominion

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This is an aside from the point of your discussion, and it was probably just a throw in line by you, but I think the fact that Sharangovich is from Belarus, and is not Russian, makes it much less likely that he goes back to the KHL. I don't know the politics between the 2 countries, but just the fact that he's not actually Russian makes me think the Russian factor is not a major concern.

Also the fact that he came right over and his twitter seemed to be very excited about being part of the organization.

Good points.
 

Triumph

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This is an aside from the point of your discussion, and it was probably just a throw in line by you, but I think the fact that Sharangovich is from Belarus, and is not Russian, makes it much less likely that he goes back to the KHL. I don't know the politics between the 2 countries, but just the fact that he's not actually Russian makes me think the Russian factor is not a major concern.

Also the fact that he came right over and his twitter seemed to be very excited about being part of the organization.

If at any point his NHL road looks closed, I think he will go back. I'd be very surprised if he played in Binghamton for 2 years with 0 NHL callups and returned for a 3rd year. I'd be very surprised if he ended up this year on the 4th line/healthy scratch and would come back for a 2nd year.

He played for Dinamo Minsk which is located in the capital city of Belarus.
 

My3Sons

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If at any point his NHL road looks closed, I think he will go back. I'd be very surprised if he played in Binghamton for 2 years with 0 NHL callups and returned for a 3rd year. I'd be very surprised if he ended up this year on the 4th line/healthy scratch and would come back for a 2nd year.

He played for Dinamo Minsk which is located in the capital city of Belarus.

I’m not sure about the no call up issue but if Sharanagalangadingdong can’t earn regular AHL minutes as a 21 year old (next season) it would make sense to let him go home to percolate some more. That said, he’s having some early season success as an AHL rookie and hopefully he builds on that. He’s apparently got the size strength and skating the team likes and he will probably go as far as his offensive skill allows. Definitely an interesting player to watch and a good use of a late draft pick.
 

devilsblood

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If at any point his NHL road looks closed, I think he will go back. I'd be very surprised if he played in Binghamton for 2 years with 0 NHL callups and returned for a 3rd year. I'd be very surprised if he ended up this year on the 4th line/healthy scratch and would come back for a 2nd year.

He played for Dinamo Minsk which is located in the capital city of Belarus.

1)If he's getting healthy scratched that's one thing, but he's playing well so I'm not really factoring in that possibility. If he's 2 years deep and still hadn't gotten a call up? I think that would still depend on how well he had played at that point, and what kind of feedback he was getting from Shero. Let's say he's coming off a 40 point season, he's still only 22 and Shero says, hey you're close. I don't think he'd be in a rush to get out of here.

As a comparable, Hrabarenka is a Belarussian who put in 4 years, and the writing was pretty clearly on the wall that he was not going to be an NHL'r before he went back.

(Mozik, on the other hand, also not russian, hung out for only 2 years, and is actually performing quite well this year in the KHL , but he was going on 24 when he left)


2)Location is one thing, the Mother Russia ideology is another. Actual Russians, not all, but a fair amount run back home much earlier, or never leave home, much more often then citizens of other countries.
 

Triumph

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Hraberenka came over to the US when he was 17 to play in an obscure league and worked his way up from there. Totally different scenario from a guy who already had an established position on a pro team at age 20.
 

devilsblood

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Hraberenka came over to the US when he was 17 to play in an obscure league and worked his way up from there. Totally different scenario from a guy who already had an established position on a pro team at age 20.
EJHL was not that obscure a league, Jimmy Vesey played in that league, Jack Eichel dipped his toe's in there as well. And Hrabarenka played internationally for Belarus the year before and was in the Q the very next year.

Pop's played juniors too, then bolted at the first bump in the road, a couple months after being drafted.

I dunno, and I'm going theoretical here, but given that he is not actually Russian,(plus his tweets which showed genuine excitement about coming over), I don't think the flight risk is as high as if he were.
 

Triumph

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EJHL was not that obscure a league, Jimmy Vesey played in that league, Jack Eichel dipped his toe's in there as well. And Hrabarenka played internationally for Belarus the year before and was in the Q the very next year.

Well you've cited a whole 2 people who played in that league, so I guess it's not obscure. It's certainly not a regular path to the NHL to have played there.

Pop's played juniors too, then bolted at the first bump in the road, a couple months after being drafted.

I dunno, and I'm going theoretical here, but given that he is not actually Russian,(plus his tweets which showed genuine excitement about coming over), I don't think the flight risk is as high as if he were.

I don't care about 'flight risks', although the connection to language used in the penal system isn't that surprising. This is very basic stuff - European players who don't feel like they have a shot at the NHL anymore are much more likely to return to their home country, especially if they can get similar or better pay, regardless of what they tweet out when they sign a contract. In many cases, I don't think the NHL team really cares, either - if Sharangovich is a whatever AHL forward, Shero and Fitzgerald aren't going to lose sleep if he wanted out. They'd probably mutually agree to terminate their contract if he asked - this is not uncommon.
 

devilsblood

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Well you've cited a whole 2 people who played in that league, so I guess it's not obscure. It's certainly not a regular path to the NHL to have played there.



I don't care about 'flight risks', although the connection to language used in the penal system isn't that surprising. This is very basic stuff - European players who don't feel like they have a shot at the NHL anymore are much more likely to return to their home country, especially if they can get similar or better pay, regardless of what they tweet out when they sign a contract. In many cases, I don't think the NHL team really cares, either - if Sharangovich is a whatever AHL forward, Shero and Fitzgerald aren't going to lose sleep if he wanted out. They'd probably mutually agree to terminate their contract if he asked - this is not uncommon.
1)Just because you are not familiar with Tier 3 hockey does not make it obscure. There are similar leagues in the US and the Alumni list is very solid.

2)You started this off by saying Sharangovich could bolt tomorrow and head back to the KHL. There was certainly some hyperbole to that statement so I didn't nit pick. But given Sharangovich expressed genuine excitement about coming over, played well in preseason, and has started the AHL season playing well, I'm not sure why we would think that he may have concerns about his NHL future in the next couple years.

I also factor in that he is not Russian. Sure euro's in general would rather play pro over there then toil in the minors here for an extended period, but Russians seem much more prone to jumping ship at the first signs of trouble then other nationalities.
 
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devilsblood

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To further my point on the Russian/not Russian factor.

Is anyone worried about Studenic heading back to Europe anytime soon? Do we think Zetterlund is a guy who won't make the trip over when his name is called? Yet rumor was we traded Rykov in part because we thought he might not come over.

Maltsev? Zaitsev? Maybe we see them at some point.

And of coarse Pop's.

But Sharangovich, who is not Russian, after being drafted is stocking his twitter with Devils swag, and is in the AHL the very next season.

I think there is a difference.
 
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