CHL execs using media to persuade 2012 prospects

[Gump Hasek]

But for a guy like Bennett who he used an example putting on size and getting stronger was something he needs to do to succeed at the pro level and if he'd gone the CHL route he'd struggle to put on size during the CHL regular season because of the amount of games he'd play..

In general terms, as per my post, no matter their size, players benefit more from in game experience.

The NCAA can never match that CHL game schedule.

While we are picking and choosing via size, how was a smallish guy like Skinner hurt by playing in the CHL? People argued the same things about Skinner that you said applied to Bennett.

 

[Ogopogo*]

I'm sure Beau Bennett would disagree with your statement. In a single year, he managed to put on 20-25 lbs. of muscle without affecting his skating or skill.

No CHL team could possibly put forth the same kind of strength and conditioning program that a player could find at a Division 1 NCAA program.

I'm not saying that the NCAA is the right choice for everyone, but it also provides a counterexample to your broad categorical statement.

Beau Bennett? Until he actually succeeds in the NHL, he really isn't an example of NCAA development.

For every NHLer that comes from the NCAA, I can name you three dozen that come from the CHL, including names like Gretzky, Lemieux, Lafleur, Orr, Brodeur, Roy, Bossy, Clarke....and every #1 pick for the past 5 years like RNH, Hall, Tavares, Stamkos, Crosby....

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Never cared for the NCAA when they pressured players so I am not too fond of the CHL doing this.

Wish the NCAA could change its rules on what an Amateur player is so guys that play a year or a few games don't have their eligibility ruined

 

[Ogopogo*]

Never cared for the NCAA when they pressured players so I am not too fond of the CHL doing this.

Wish the NCAA could change its rules on what an Amateur player is so guys that play a year or a few games don't have their eligibility ruined

With the scholarship program offered by the CHL, there is no reason for a player to go the NCAA route if they are planning to have a pro career. The education aspect is covered by the CHL and the pro development is better. Only kids who don't think they are good enough to make the NHL should choose the NCAA route, IMO.

 

[Pick Six]

With the scholarship program offered by the CHL, there is no reason for a player to go the NCAA route if they are planning to have a pro career. The education aspect is covered by the CHL and the pro development is better. Only kids who don't think they are good enough to make the NHL should choose the NCAA route, IMO.

You realize this is 90% of the CHL. The CHL is much more than a pro development league.

 

[wej20]

In general terms, as per my post, no matter their size, players benefit more from in game experience.

The NCAA can never match that CHL game schedule.

While we are picking and choosing via size, how was a smallish guy like Skinner hurt by playing in the CHL? People argued the same things about Skinner that you said applied to Bennett.

Skinner was actually a lot stronger than he was given credit for and he put up a good shift with Gary Robert in the off-season, Bennett on the other hand was very lanky in his draft year. If you're a high end prospect then obviously the CHL is probably the way to go but for other prospects the NCAA can often make sense.

 

[wej20]

With the scholarship program offered by the CHL, there is no reason for a player to go the NCAA route if they are planning to have a pro career. The education aspect is covered by the CHL and the pro development is better. Only kids who don't think they are good enough to make the NHL should choose the NCAA route, IMO.

some Kids prefer to do their studying as they're playing though which is either in the NCAA, how do scholarships work? do NCAA guys get 4 years as soon as they commit? in CHL you get a year's scholarship for every year served?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I don't mind Canadians defending the CHL model. It is what they are accustomed to and I have no doubt that it is the best preperation a pro prospect can have for hitting the bigs in the quickest amount of time. That said, there is something lost in translation when it comes to the appeal of college athletics to the average American. That is a key factor here that Canadians don't have the same affinity for.

 

[wjhl2009fan]

I don't mind Canadians defending the CHL model. It is what they are accustomed to and I have no doubt that it is the best preperation a pro prospect can have for hitting the bigs in the quickest amount of time. That said, there is something lost in translation when it comes to the appeal of college athletics to the average American. That is a key factor here that Canadians don't have the same affinity for.

What i get sick of is some act like the chl is a beer league.

 

[ocarina]

some Kids prefer to do their studying as they're playing though which is either in the NCAA, how do scholarships work? do NCAA guys get 4 years as soon as they commit? in CHL you get a year's scholarship for every year served?

I believe in the CHL, you get one year paid for each season you play.

I might be wrong on this, but I think that if you turn pro, you lose the education package. I could be wrong on this though. Either way, while it is something, it simply doesn't compare to getting an NCAA scholarship, not to mention, it's harder to go back to school after being out of it for a couple of years.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I believe in the CHL, you get one year paid for each season you play.

I might be wrong on this, but I think that if you turn pro, you lose the education package. I could be wrong on this though. Either way, while it is something, it simply doesn't compare to getting an NCAA scholarship, not to mention, it's harder to go back to school after being out of it for a couple of years.

You have 3 years to decide to use the package or not. Alot of guys will turn pro and if they don't have a good shot at making a living and have the brains for college go back to school

 

[wej20]

What i get sick of is some act like the chl is a beer league.

Who is acting like the CHL is a beer league?

 

[Blind Gardien]

What is your take on these CHL execs using the media in this manner as some sort of recruitment tactic to get these players to report to major junior?

Can't really see how it qualifies as a "recruitment tactic". Did the CHL execs in question just honestly answer questions that local media came at them with, or did they phone up the local media with a "what say you guys run the following piece on Schmaltz/Girgensons?"... ?

I don't doubt they honestly feel it is in the players' best interest (as well of course as their own) to come to their teams. So why be coy if they are asked the question? If they clam up or give a terse dismissive answer to the question, does that send the message that they aren't really interested/don't really care about the player?

They probably said much the same in person to the player/his family/the agent/advisors, anyway.

As a fan, I'd just be happy to get as much information as possible about the status of the players in question and by extension the future of my team, and be glad that my GM was willing to provide it. Without seeing it as a tactic, nor expecting that it would have any influence whatsoever on the players in question.

 

[wej20]

Can't really see how it qualifies as a "recruitment tactic". Did the CHL execs in question just honestly answer questions that local media came at them with, or did they phone up the local media with a "what say you guys run the following piece on Schmaltz/Girgensons?"... ?

I don't doubt they honestly feel it is in the players' best interest (as well of course as their own) to come to their teams. So why be coy if they are asked the question? If they clam up or give a terse dismissive answer to the question, does that send the message that they aren't really interested/don't really care about the player?

They probably said much the same in person to the player/his family/the agent/advisors, anyway.

As a fan, I'd just be happy to get as much information as possible about the status of the players in question and by extension the future of my team, and be glad that my GM was willing to provide it. Without seeing it as a tactic, nor expecting that it would have any influence whatsoever on the players in question.

This is a good point, if they were asked questions about it then it's not really a tactic just them answering honestly. If they phoned up the media then it is a tactic and comes across as a bit desperate.

 

[wjhl2009fan]

Who is acting like the CHL is a beer league?

Look at the people that want the rule tossed out that says you have to be 20 to go to the ahl that is just one exzample.

 

[wej20]

Look at the people that want the rule tossed out that says you have to be 20 to go to the ahl that is just one exzample.

I think that's because some prospects outgrow the CHL before they reach 20 or accumulate 4 seasons but aren't ready for the NHL. It's a pretty small group though and having them in the CHL for another year doesn't kill their development and it's a small price to pay given how much talent the CHL provides to the NHL.

 

[PensBeerGeek]

Be careful with your absolutes. CHL guys have access to guys like Gary Roberts who are excellent strength and conditioning coaches.

That being said, I don't disagree that some are being VERY overprotective of the CHL. It is a good league, but isn't for everyone.

You are probably right that I was being a little absolute. The Pens have had guys who have benefitted from the Scary Gary program.

But I think my general point stands. NCAA hockey players, at least at higher end programs, have access to world-class S&C programs and the same trainers that football and basketball players do.

I think that is the primary benefit to NCAA hockey, and there are players who benefit more from that than they do skill development in the CHL.

 

[Oilers Chick]

Genuinely curious about the bolded, because I thought I knew many of the recruiting rules. It seems very similar to me (ie. Merrill committing at 14, Basketball player commits to USC at 12).

One difference is pro draft eligibility. If you're a football player and declare yourself draft eligible (meaning you intend to jump into the NFL draft pool), it voids your collegiate eligibility. That's not the case in college hockey.

With the scholarship program offered by the CHL, there is no reason for a player to go the NCAA route if they are planning to have a pro career. The education aspect is covered by the CHL and the pro development is better. Only kids who don't think they are good enough to make the NHL should choose the NCAA route, IMO.

Gee, I guess current NHL players like David Backes, Tim Thomas and John-Michael Liles must've missed the memo.

The CHL does have a good educational package, no argument there, but it is also limited. (And yes, I have extensively studied the WHL package since it affects that future players from my home state of California. I would venture to guess that those of the OHL and QMJHL are similar.)

As another poster pointed out, you get one year for every year played. However, the catch is that if a WHL player (I would assume same holds true for the OHL and QMJHL players) signs a pro contract, the package is voided.

What many people here either don't get (refuse to understand) is that NCAA college hockey scholarships situations vary depending on the school and player. Here are some examples:

1) the Ivy League schools such as Cornell and Yale do not offer scholarships, simply because they can't understand Ivy League (not NCAA) rules.

2) not every player on an college hockey roster playing for a school that hands out scholarships are on scholarship. These players are known as "walk-ons".

3) Some schools (one example here is Ohio State) will continue to honor scholarships (at least the tuition part of it) of former players who chose to return to the school later..even after having played professionally.

 

[wej20]

One difference is pro draft eligibility. If you're a football player and declare yourself draft eligible (meaning you intend to jump into the NFL draft pool), it voids your collegiate eligibility. That's not the case in college hockey.



Gee, I guess current NHL players like David Backes, Tim Thomas and John-Michael Liles must've missed the memo.

The CHL does have a good educational package, no argument there, but it is also limited. (And yes, I have extensively studied the WHL package since it affects that future players from my home state of California. I would venture to guess that those of the OHL and QMJHL are similar.)

As another poster pointed out, you get one year for every year played. However, the catch is that if a WHL player (I would assume same holds true for the OHL and QMJHL players) signs a pro contract, the package is voided.

What many people here either don't get (refuse to understand) is that NCAA college hockey scholarships situations vary depending on the school and player. Here are some examples:

1) the Ivy League schools such as Cornell and Yale do not offer scholarships, simply because they can't understand Ivy League (not NCAA) rules.

2) not every player on an college hockey roster playing for a school that hands out scholarships are on scholarship. These players are known as "walk-ons".

3) Some schools (one example here is Ohio State) will continue to honor scholarships (at least the tuition part of it) of former players who chose to return to the school later..even after having played professionally.

I guess though that the top prospects are all on scholarships (at least at schools that offer scholarships) Oilers chick? When they commit do they usually get scholarships for the full 4 years?

 

[ocarina]

I'm actually curious on this, for the Ivy league schools or schools that don't hand out scholarships, don't they often offer financial aid to their players? If they do, I would be curious to see how much players get, especially the high-end prospects.

 

[OutsideLookingIn]

One thing to consider – the CHL and Windsor sells that it is the fastest way to NHL, which it probably is, but how many guys make it all the way to the show.

My bet is that if you don’t make it from Windsor, there are not a lot of fans or local supporters waiting to help you start a career or find a job. On average, if there are, it is limited to a few opportunities. Yes, you can take advantage of the education package, but how many players actually use it? When it is used, they are 21 or 22 year old freshman.

On the flip side, if you don’t make from college, the alumni base at a major university can and will help student athletes find opportunities to use their education. This is not just a handful of people, but in many cases, fifty years’ worth of supporters and boosters. In the end, that equals thousands of contacts that can be accessed the rest of your life.

It is easy to see that more players make it from the CHL vs. NCAA. However, I would bet that there are more business owners, executives, lawyers, doctors, and CEOs that tried to make it to the NHL that never made it from the NCAA than the CHL.

It is great to sell the dream, but add a dose of reality and most kids would be better off going the NCAA route, than the CHL.

 

[PensBeerGeek]

I guess though that the top prospects are all on scholarships (at least at schools that offer scholarships) Oilers chick? When they commit do they usually get scholarships for the full 4 years?

At the moment, NCAA scholarships are officially on a yearly basis without any guarantee of renewal. In practice, they very rarely are not renewed for athletes that meet academic requirements simply because reputation and trustworthiness are so important in recruiting.

It's funny that you bring it up though, because there are NCAA proposals to make scholarship offers multi-year...but that gets into politics a bit beyond this thread.

 

[WarriorofTime]

With the scholarship program offered by the CHL, there is no reason for a player to go the NCAA route if they are planning to have a pro career. The education aspect is covered by the CHL and the pro development is better. Only kids who don't think they are good enough to make the NHL should choose the NCAA route, IMO.

The scholarship offer is only for a year after their Junior career is over though. If a player's pro career doesn't work out they're s*** out of luck with no education or life experience outside of hockey. The NCAA makes more better rounded individuals while providing excellent hockey development as well. The way I see it if a player is NHL bound that will surface itself whether he goes the NHL or CHL route. However, if the NHL thing doesn't work the NCAA is the much better option for a kid.

 

[wjhl2009fan]

The scholarship offer is only for a year after their Junior career is over though. If a player's pro career doesn't work out they're s*** out of luck with no education or life experience outside of hockey. The NCAA makes more better rounded individuals while providing excellent hockey development as well. The way I see it if a player is NHL bound that will surface itself whether he goes the NHL or CHL route. However, if the NHL thing doesn't work the NCAA is the much better option for a kid.

Many players in the chl do get a education there is this myth they don't but thats not ture.

 

[IkeaMonkey*]

Many players in the chl do get a education there is this myth they don't but thats not ture.

As someone who had class with with some of the players in Lewiston...I can indeed confirm this...