Chicago Wolves intend to return to independence (upd: only lasted one year before reaffiliating)

[WarriorofTime]

They also said 2 things that gave me good thought.

First, the Wolves are the only AHL team with their own management.

The other is that while they would not have affiliation, it would open them up to various loan agreements to take on prospects, and specifically goalies, who may be boxed out of situations on other teams. They do still have to adhere to roster rules.

This would give me some pause if I were the ECHL though. The Wolves are going to have a number of players who would be the best players in the ECHL. I’m quite curious to see how this plays out and if other teams want to try it. But my last point is the big factor - whoever does is going to have to pay their own staffs.

Loaning is pretty common place in Europe, see Michkov this year for instance. I think teams would be glad to go park some of their overflow prospects into a different AHL team that has their own plans and visions for that player as opposed to the ECHL. I don't think the Wolves actively just dislike having players on NHL deals, it's just more so that sense of "hey, make sure you play our 21 year old second round bust on the top powerplay unit"

 

[GKJ]

Loaning is pretty common place in Europe, see Michkov this year for instance. I think teams would be glad to go park some of their overflow prospects into a different AHL team that has their own plans and visions for that player as opposed to the ECHL. I don't think the Wolves actively just dislike having players on NHL deals, it's just more so that sense of "hey, make sure you play our 21 year old second round bust on the top powerplay unit"

It would also be an open door for AHL teams missing the playoffs to move prospects there for playoff runs. I don’t know how much we see that anymore. Hardly ever.

When it comes to a 33rd AHL team - the NHL is clearly going to expand again. Could just be getting a head start.

 

[Bonk]

From the limited reading I’ve done, there doesn’t appear to be a AHL requirement that the Wolves maintain a AHL affiliation.

If that’s the long term position of Chicago, it does raise the question whether the AHL could add a 33rd team in upcoming years to have 32 NHL affiliated teams?

This came up when Cincinnati lost its affiliation with Anaheim, and at least at that time there was definitely no rule requiring affiliation.

We discussed the possibility of remaining in the league as an independent, but the NHL covers the expenses for its players (including insurance) and the financial burden was deemed too much. Thus Cincinnati went dormant and was bought by a Windsor group then moved the Rockford.

 

[mouser]

This came up when Cincinnati lost its affiliation with Anaheim, and at least at that time there was definitely no rule requiring affiliation.

We discussed the possibility of remaining in the league as an independent, but the NHL covers the expenses for its players (including insurance) and the financial burden was deemed too much. Thus Cincinnati went dormant and was bought by a Windsor group then moved the Rockford.

I would add in the Blackhawks later bought Rockford in 2021 from that group or their successors.

 

[Ciao]

It seems a bit odd to have a non-developmental team in a developmental league.

The first thing is the rules on roster limits. They can have as many players on the roster as they like, but they can only play five players with more than four years professional experience in any game (goalies don't count). So, they can't fill their roster with veterans and play them all at once. They could sign a veteran core, keep it intact and give the vets all the playing time the coach and management wants to give them, but that's as far as it goes with that.

The second thing is how would they recruit younger players without a pathway to the NHL? I assume that most of the better young players on the margins of NHL rosters would be drafted and under contract to NHL teams. There are plenty of drafted but unsigned overage juniors not yet under contract to the NHL, others whose draft rights have expired and still more players will were never drafted, most of whom would jump at an AHL contract, but none of them would likely be a top talent.

The third thing is which NHL teams would want to lend good prospects to an AHL franchise outside of their own development system? Maybe players on the cusp of the ECHL, but probably not so much on the cusp of the NHL.

Would that leave the Wolves as a lunch-pail crew of grinders and veterans without the snipers and upwardly mobile young players that can put the puck in the net? I don't know because I don't watch too many AHL game, but I'd bet that Wolves' fans could straighten me out.

I'm presuming that the Wolves have all the finances already figured out. I also don't have a sense of what it costs to run an AHL franchise, but there's no spending cap and I'm mindful that the team I follow, the Leafs, apparently pour a lot more resources into their wholly owned AHL affiliate than the norm. I'm thinking of any independent minor league franchise without an NHL affiliation competing with other franchises in the same league that are bankrolled by the more profitable NHL teams, and I just don't know where that goes.

it seems like a square peg in a round hole to me.

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

Apparently, I am not the only one who misses the IHL...

 

[StreetHawk]

Apparently, I am not the only one who misses the IHL...

I do wonder if splitting the A into 2 conferences (ie leagues) makes more sense. Assuming the A only has regional coverage it might make sense to have an east and west conference. Probably no reason to have SD go play in Hersey or Charlotte for example.

IHL, that was around when there were what only 26 teams? Now there is 32.

Most of those cities that hosted a team didn’t get transitioned to the A. LV went onto to get an nhl team. Manitoba returned but after it joined the A. Grand Rapids joined the A. Cleveland as well before it got moved to another city.

A few dropped down to the echl.

Don’t think there is going to be an IHL at the AHL level equivalent again. Only if they split the A into an east and west. Which may make sense. That way they don’t get into this whole finalist who never played each other during the year. If you have 15 other clubs to play against that is 5 times per opponent for 75 games as your working basis. Can go more 6/4 for your division and do 2 consecutive games when on the road to limit travel costs.

 

[Rob]

Where does Carolina end up with now? They were with Charlotte which was super convenient location wise, but Charlotte has since paired up with Florida.

Why did they break off with Charlotte?

 

[StreetHawk]

Why did they break off with Charlotte?

I did post that question on a thread when it was announced that Carolina was pairing up with Chicago. Made little sense as the trend was moving your A club closer to the nhl city like Colorado had done, and the western expansion of the A, and then Vancouver going from Utica NY to Abbotsford.

Someone replied that it was a money issue with Charlotte. Now 2 years later the Canes are looking for an A affiliate.

 

[Rob]

Woah! Very interested to see how this plays out.

I think it will be better for for potential fans. I’m sure local Blackhawk fans weren’t interested in supporting a minor affiliate of another NHL. An independent team should garner more fans.

 

[WarriorofTime]

It seems a bit odd to have a non-developmental team in a developmental league.

The first thing is the rules on roster limits. They can have as many players on the roster as they like, but they can only play five players with more than four years professional experience in any game (goalies don't count). So, they can't fill their roster with veterans and play them all at once. They could sign a veteran core, keep it intact and give the vets all the playing time the coach and management wants to give them, but that's as far as it goes with that.

The second thing is how would they recruit younger players without a pathway to the NHL? I assume that most of the better young players on the margins of NHL rosters would be drafted and under contract to NHL teams. There are plenty of drafted but unsigned overage juniors not yet under contract to the NHL, others whose draft rights have expired and still more players will were never drafted, most of whom would jump at an AHL contract, but none of them would likely be a top talent.

The third thing is which NHL teams would want to lend good prospects to an AHL franchise outside of their own development system? Maybe players on the cusp of the ECHL, but probably not so much on the cusp of the NHL.

Would that leave the Wolves as a lunch-pail crew of grinders and veterans without the snipers and upwardly mobile young players that can put the puck in the net? I don't know because I don't watch too many AHL game, but I'd bet that Wolves' fans could straighten me out.

My guess is that they will actively target 4-year college graduate free agents that are 24, as opposed to 20 year olds that are aged out of Major Juniors. There are lots of quality players that due to their age aren't being given NHL contract offers. These are guys that aged out of Juniors (say the USHL) at the same age the OHL kids, but then had an additional four years of development before turning professional. So you'll have 25 year old "rookies" that aren't running up against the Experienced Professionals limit. By the time they've played enough seasons, a spot may be opened up to keep any player the Wolves want to keep. And while unlikely, if a player really blows up in the AHL, they can still be offered an NHL contract the next year. They just won't be a situation where an organization is focusing all of their attention on the "higher ceiling" younger prospects.

Obviously they will have to scout well, but from watching enough NCAA Hockey, I'm confident that amongst all the non-drafted 24 year olds that matriculate every year, you can definitely pull a few a year that would make for good AHL pros. Look at the team that just won the NCAA Championship, Quinnipiac. Loaded with 23 and 24 year olds this season and defeated Michigan and Minnesota teams that were stacked top to bottom with high-end NHL prospects.

 

[Cacciaguida]

All they would have to do to get around the vet limitation is sign undrafted CHL and NCAA players.

 

[GKJ]

I do wonder if splitting the A into 2 conferences (ie leagues) makes more sense. Assuming the A only has regional coverage it might make sense to have an east and west conference. Probably no reason to have SD go play in Hersey or Charlotte for example.

IHL, that was around when there were what only 26 teams? Now there is 32.

Most of those cities that hosted a team didn’t get transitioned to the A. LV went onto to get an nhl team. Manitoba returned but after it joined the A. Grand Rapids joined the A. Cleveland as well before it got moved to another city.

A few dropped down to the echl.

Don’t think there is going to be an IHL at the AHL level equivalent again. Only if they split the A into an east and west. Which may make sense. That way they don’t get into this whole finalist who never played each other during the year. If you have 15 other clubs to play against that is 5 times per opponent for 75 games as your working basis. Can go more 6/4 for your division and do 2 consecutive games when on the road to limit travel costs.

The AHL essentially functions this way anyways. There’s very little crossover among the two conferences, and not even a lot among the divisions.

 

[Tawnos]

I did post that question on a thread when it was announced that Carolina was pairing up with Chicago. Made little sense as the trend was moving your A club closer to the nhl city like Colorado had done, and the western expansion of the A, and then Vancouver going from Utica NY to Abbotsford.

Someone replied that it was a money issue with Charlotte. Now 2 years later the Canes are looking for an A affiliate.

By money, what is meant is "Tom Dundon and Michael Kahn don't like each other." Kahn is the owner of the Checkers.

 

[LadyStanley]

The AHL essentially functions this way anyways. There’s very little crossover among the two conferences, and not even a lot among the divisions.

This season HSK had zero inter division/conference games. But for Pacific/Central division teams, there seems to be a little overlap with at least 2-3 teams being played.

The two eastern divisions are a lot closer (think less travel time, $$) so there's more overlap.

 

[WarriorofTime]

There are also the "failed prospects" that will often play out their ELCs and then not get extended another contract offer, they'd be free agents that would still have another year before they count against the Experienced Professional Limit. They often just go to Europe because NHL teams aren't interested in them, but now the Wolves would be an intriguing option if they think the player still has potential to be a good AHL option. And then again, a spot may open up for the experienced professional list, they can go to Europe at that point, if they have a big year an NHL team might be interested, etc.

I think competitively they will likely be fine. They have been a strong team across multiple affiliations. While I'm sure all of their best teams had good infusions from NHL prospects, they will just have to build a bit differently without those kind of players, but without the drawback of being forced to give ice time to players that aren't hacking it.

 

[GKJ]

This season HSK had zero inter division/conference games. But for Pacific/Central division teams, there seems to be a little overlap with at least 2-3 teams being played.

The two eastern divisions are a lot closer (think less travel time, $$) so there's more overlap.

Most of the closest division rivals play each other 10-12 times a year. That’s like half the schedule. And not even entire divisions.

 

[LadyStanley]

Seems to be some machinations to allow Carolina to continue/extend affiliation for.now.

 

[GKJ]

Damn, I want to see how this would work.

 

[dortt]

Can they not sign drafted but unsigned NHL prospects as well? The AHL is technically a different league, so wouldn't that basically be like a drafted but unsigned player signing a KHL contract?

 

[GKJ]

Can they not sign drafted but unsigned NHL prospects as well? The AHL is technically a different league, so wouldn't that basically be like a drafted but unsigned player signing a KHL contract?

As long as their CHL junior rights expire, right?

 

[dortt]

As long as their CHL junior rights expire, right?

wouldn't be an issue if the players are in the NCAA or come from the US developmental system.

CHL contracts, yes, would have to expire

 

[WaW]

I have a hard time imagining this working out well for them, but I understand it as they're a storied franchise that actually wants to win...they probably value winning more than any other AHL team.

That said, not having access to NHL prospects probably isn't a great way of going about that.

Also have to wonder if this is entirely their decision. That same desire to win over development can't be very attractive to prospective NHL partners either...

 

[GKJ]

I have a hard time imagining this working out well for them, but I understand it as they're a storied franchise that actually wants to win...they probably value winning more than any other AHL team.

That said, not having access to NHL prospects probably isn't a great way of going about that.

Also have to wonder if this is entirely their decision. That same desire to win over development can't be very attractive to prospective NHL partners either...

I don’t know if it’s good or bad, but I’d love to see them give it a shot. I know why the NHL (and AHL) don’t want this to happen because if it works, other independent teams will be emboldened to try it.

 

[MMC]