Confirmed Trade: [CHI/CBJ] Panarin, Motte, 6th for Saad, Forsberg, 2018 5th

[CBJWerenski8]

Panarin is a better scorer and offensive player than Saad is. If that's what the Jackets wanted (and it is) then they got it.

However, Saad is a more useful player and a safer player to bet on.

I think Forsberg will thrive in Chicago too. He wasn't given a fair shake in Columbus.

Overall, I think Panarin is due to dip in production slightly. Around 60ish points with high 20's goals. Saad will probably improve his point totals slightly playing with Toews and being back where he wants to be while also getting PP time.

I think the trade leans to Chicago. But I don't think Columbus will be upset either. They wanted a dynamic player, and Panarin is that. Saad is not. But Saad is more solid of a player.

 

[CallMeShaft]

I like the deal for both teams.

Panarin won't, or at least likely won't, put up as many points in Columbus. And I say that, not because he won't have quality linemates, but because he had extremely sheltered minutes in Chicago.

Out of forwards who've played over a 1000 minutes at even strength last year, Panarin had the most offensive zone starts at a whopping 80%. Tarasenko was 2nd in the league with 67%.

I don't expect Torts to shelter him that much. Honestly, when I first saw that stat, I was a little frustrated by Q.

A big part of why Panarin was so sheltered is because he was frequently attached to the hips of Kane and Anisimov. Kane himself is terrible at defense, and Anisimov sucks at faceoffs.

But even without those sheltered minutes; Panarin still has enough talent to put up 60+ points. And it's not like Columbus ever used Saad on special teams. They got better because they acquired a player who can put up a similar amount of points at even strength, while actually being able to utilize Panarin on the Powerplay.

Hawks got better because they'll actually utilize Saad on special teams (especially on a PK that SUCKED last year) and be able to utilize his speed through the neutral zone (which we couldn't do with Panarin because he was starting so many draws already in the offensive zone).

It's actually a bit weird to hear BJ fans opinions' on Saad. They say Saad wasn't good on the PK, or Saad wasn't good defensively, or Saad wasn't good scoring off the rush. All probably true, but really weird because he was fantastic at all those things when he was with us (watch a couple youtube highlights of his time here and see how many goals come off the rush for him).

If we get the Saad that Columbus had, we (hawks fans) will be disappointed. But we've seen what he can do on this roster just two years ago and he's still super young (24). Most of us are confident he can recapture what he had here, which would be more important for us then what Panarin would offer.

Hawks also got a goalie that fell out of favor in Columbus. At the time of the trade, a 31 year AHL goalie was our most likely backup, so I'm okay with getting Forsberg.

However, Motte's a good player too. Could see him with 25-30pts on a third/fourth line role and possibly get some PK minutes. Hawks just had too many guys vying for forward spots this season.

Also, Motte's nickname is not Motter or Applesauce. It's Mottarella Sticks. I really want that name to stick.

 

[major major]

It's actually a bit weird to hear BJ fans opinions' on Saad. They say Saad wasn't good on the PK, or Saad wasn't good defensively, or Saad wasn't good scoring off the rush. All probably true, but really weird because he was fantastic at all those things when he was with us (watch a couple youtube highlights of his time here and see how many goals come off the rush for him).

No, it's just false. You won't be disappointed if you get the Saad that played in Columbus. Saad was better than any other forward at moving the puck forward D to O, by a country mile, and he scored a lot of goals on the rush. He was incompetent on breakaways (seriously, fans started ignoring him on breakaways because he could never do anything with it). We didn't need him on special teams, and he did nothing in his little time on them.

You can check his possession stats if you aren't sure about his defensive contribution. His effort level on D was frequently lacking (that was why he was almost benched), but his god given gifts (skating and strength) meant that his overall defensive contribution was superlative. Everyone had more shots and points and fewer against when they played with him.

He was on a team full of hitters in Columbus so he did stand out with his build as someone who was averse to hitting. But he is nonetheless a physical force in that he will absolutely bull through a check if someone tries to hit him. That's worth something to any fanbase but Columbus, where you are expected to deck someone at every opportunity .

Saad also briefly led the league in even strength points around New Years, right there with Crosby and McDavid, before going into Torts' dog house down the stretch. It wouldn't be that surprising at all if Saad outplays Panarin next year. I'm not the least bit disappointed about the trade though - watching Artemi Panarin work his magic will be more than worth it!

 

[CallMeShaft]

No, it's just false. You won't be disappointed if you get the Saad that played in Columbus. Saad was better than any other forward at moving the puck forward D to O, by a country mile, and he scored a lot of goals on the rush. He was incompetent on breakaways (seriously, fans started ignoring him on breakaways because he could never do anything with it). We didn't need him on special teams, and he did nothing in his little time on them.

You can check his possession stats if you aren't sure about his defensive contribution. His effort level on D was frequently lacking (that was why he was almost benched), but his god given gifts (skating and strength) meant that his overall defensive contribution was superlative. Everyone had more shots and points and fewer against when they played with him.

It's just weird that he wasn't good at breakaways in Columbus. I remember a handful of times he scored on breakaways in the 2015 cup run.

And I'd imagine him not being utilized on the PK was probably due to the PK system.

I am happy to hear he's still viewed as a possession beast. Knew his advanced stats were good, but happy to have it confirmed by someone who's actually watched him play.

 

[Panda Bear]

Patty's last two season were his highest point totals in his career. His average prior to that was around 65-70. It's impossible to deny that Bread Man had a huge impact on Kaner and vice versa. Those two were like peanut butter and jelly man...awesome combo.

Playing 82 games had more of an impact than Panarin joining.

He had 557 points in 576 games played in the regular season before Panarin joined. That's an average of 79 points a season assuming he plays 82.

The three seasons prior to Panarin, he tallied 188 points in 177 games. That prorates to 87 points.

Panarin may have helped, sure, but Kane's 106 point season is more on an abnormally high on ice shooting percentage than anything.

Anyway, as you guys were.

 

[Silver Tuna]

Did Kane get 80% o zone starts before panarin?

 

[CallMeShaft]

Did Kane get 80% o zone starts before panarin?

No, and he didn't get that many offensive zone starts last year (partially because Q would double shift Kane at times). I don't know off the top of my head what his percentage was, but Taresenko was second in the entire league with 68%, so Kane's percentage last year would have had to be lower than that.

 

[Kshahdoo]

My God man . Toews had almost the same PPG this year as he did in 2015, despite playing through an injury and playing with Schmaltz and Panik instead of Saad and Hossa. We get it, you like Russian players, and you really like Panarin. That's fine, he's a great player, and a better scorer than Saad. But that doesn't mean we have to live in this fantasy land where Toews sucks, and the Hawks don't need help in the areas of the game where Saad is better than Panarin. I think most reasonable people with knowledge of each team are calling it a good trade all around.

If a few idiots feel the need to bash the player their team traded, the solution is to call them idiots, not bash the other player.

It wasn't just about me liking Russian players after all.

 

[tgo0]

It wasn't just about me liking Russian players after all.

His point is still as accurate now as it was then...

 

[Kshahdoo]

His point is still as accurate now as it was then...

Of course. Toews sucked back to then and he keeps sucking nowadays, and most reasonable people with knowledge are calling the trade a good one for CBJ and bad one for Chicago. So yeah, he was accurately wrong back to then and he is now.

 

[BreakingGood]

I think it's a little early to start victory laps. The basis for the Saad > Panarin argument was about even strength scoring rates and usage. They're both getting way different usage than they did last year, Saad still has a better even strength scoring rate, both have low on-ice shooting percentages at even strength, Panarin has a low individual all-situations shooting percentage, and that's without me even looking at how their teammates have done, and what kind of competition they've gotten (I admittedly haven't seen a lot of the Blackhawks or Blue Jackets this year, or at least, not without drinking or chatting through the game, so I don't have a sense of those off the top of my head). It's still pretty early, and there's still a lot of noise. They're both good players, so I'm not sure there's much to whine about from anyone.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

I think it's a little early to start victory laps. The basis for the Saad > Panarin argument was about even strength scoring rates and usage. They're both getting way different usage than they did last year, Saad still has a better even strength scoring rate, both have low on-ice shooting percentages at even strength, Panarin has a low individual all-situations shooting percentage, and that's without me even looking at how their teammates have done, and what kind of competition they've gotten (I admittedly haven't seen a lot of the Blackhawks or Blue Jackets this year, or at least, not without drinking or chatting through the game, so I don't have a sense of those off the top of my head). It's still pretty early, and there's still a lot of noise. They're both good players, so I'm not sure there's much to whine about from anyone.

Pretty much this. Saad wasn't brought in to directly takes panarins line spot and vice versa. Panarin was sheltered in Chicago and received heavy offensive zone starts and that's what Columbus wanted him for too. Saad wasnt coming over to get the same deployment. He was used to get heavy all around deployment including PK, which panarin never touched. Both are doing wrll. Panarin is racking up points and last time I checked Saad was leading the league in game winning goals despite his point production stalling lately

 

[Kshahdoo]

Pretty much this. Saad wasn't brought in to directly takes panarins line spot and vice versa. Panarin was sheltered in Chicago and received heavy offensive zone starts and that's what Columbus wanted him for too. Saad wasnt coming over to get the same deployment. He was used to get heavy all around deployment including PK, which panarin never touched. Both are doing wrll. Panarin is racking up points and last time I checked Saad was leading the league in game winning goals despite his point production stalling lately

Lol, man, Chicago sucks, and it's not my opinion, but what people say on the team's forum. Toews sucks and Saad sucks, and it's not by me, but by Chicago fans as well. People complain, that if it weren't "3rd line center and 5'6 rookie winger" (Anisimov and DeBrincat), Chicago could be the worst team in the West.

Not sure, what are you talking about.

 

[Fazkovsky]

I feel Chicago had no reason to trade Panarin

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Lol, man, Chicago sucks, and it's not my opinion, but what people say on the team's forum. Toews sucks and Saad sucks, and it's not by me, but by Chicago fans as well. People complain, that if it weren't "3rd line center and 5'6 rookie winger" (Anisimov and DeBrincat), Chicago could be the worst team in the West.

Not sure, what are you talking about.

If Anisimov is a 3rd line center does that make Kane a 3rd line winger?

 

[crazyhawk]

I feel Chicago had no reason to trade Panarin

They had their reasons ...
1. salary ... 2 years @ 6 m for Panarin ( which will go up to 7 - 8 m easily ) vs Saad @ 6 m for 6
2. Kane is usually fine with anyone ... Toews was in need of someone to get back to his old self with.
Primary reason was managing the cap going forward with still having a competitive team.

 

[Kshahdoo]

If Anisimov is a 3rd line center does that make Kane a 3rd line winger?

Well, it's a known joke on the Chicago board, people there call Anisimov "3rd line center"... On the other hand, AA was widely considered a 3rd line center, before he moved to Chicago.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

Saad still has a better even strength scoring rate

No, he doesn't. Panarin also crushes him on most advanced stats and Saad isn't even really playing tougher minutes. So far this season it hasn't been close, Panarin has definitely been the superior player.

 

[Skobel24]

I saw this bumped and thought Panarin and Saad switched teams AGAIN.