Proposal: Chi/Car

[Blackhawkswincup]

To
G Robyn Lehner
D Erik Gustafsson
RW Dylan Sikura

To
G Petr Mrazek
C Eutu Luostarinen
Conditional 1st Round Pick in 2020/2021 *

* Canes decide if its Leafs or own 2020 pick but can defer Leafs pick to Hawks in 2021 unprotected if the Leafs pick ends up protected and Canes want to hold onto own 2020 1st

Hawks get a quality prospect in Luostarinen and a 1st round pick while taking on Mrazek's deal (Both Hawks goalies are UFA's after this year)

Canes upgrade in net , get an NHL defender who can slot in on right or left side to help fill some of the void offensively left by Hamilton injury and a winger in Sikura who provides some depth for Canes during stretch run in event of injuries

Thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[GoldiFox]

Canes have zero need for Sikura.

I'd do this deal with NYR's 2nd instead of a 1st. More than anything just to see if Lehner would fit in and be worth giving a big contract to. Lehner + Gustafsson don't make the Canes real contenders and this 1st round is deep so I don't see them moving a top pick for anything short of a good player with term left.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Hawks have no reason to eat Mrazek deal then if only a 2nd is coming back

 

[MinJaBen]

To
G Robyn Lehner
D Erik Gustafsson
RW Dylan Sikura

To
G Petr Mrazek
C Eutu Luostarinen
Conditional 1st Round Pick in 2020/2021 *

* Canes decide if its Leafs or own 2020 pick but can defer Leafs pick to Hawks in 2021 unprotected if the Leafs pick ends up protected and Canes want to hold onto own 2020 1st

Hawks get a quality prospect in Luostarinen and a 1st round pick while taking on Mrazek's deal (Both Hawks goalies are UFA's after this year)

Canes upgrade in net , get an NHL defender who can slot in on right or left side to help fill some of the void offensively left by Hamilton injury and a winger in Sikura who provides some depth for Canes during stretch run in event of injuries

Thoughts?

Counter proposal:

To
G Robyn Lehner
D Erik Gustafsson
LW Brandon Saad

To
G Petr Mrazek
C Eutu Luostarinen
LW Ryan Dzingle (cap reasons, $3.375M through 20-21 season)
Conditional 1st Round Pick in 2020*

* Better of the two first round picks the Canes own that is higher than pick #20OA (thus a pick in the #21OA through #31OA range), otherwise it becomes the NY Rangers 2nd in 2020 and the Canes 2nd in 2020.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Counter proposal:

To
G Robyn Lehner
D Erik Gustafsson
LW Brandon Saad

To
G Petr Mrazek
C Eutu Luostarinen
LW Ryan Dzingle (cap reasons, $3.375M through 20-21 season)
Conditional 1st Round Pick in 2020*

* Better of the two first round picks the Canes own that is higher than pick #20OA (thus a pick in the #21OA through #31OA range), otherwise it becomes the NY Rangers 2nd in 2020 and the Canes 2nd in 2020.

If Saad is included then the prospect coming back needs to be Gauthier or Suzuki honestly

 

[Esq]

I wouldn't do this from the Hawks perspective.

 

[Chrispy]

If Saad is included then the prospect coming back needs to be Gauthier or Suzuki honestly

Definitely not interested in 1+ season of Saad for either of those prospects.

Doubt Carolina moves either 1st for any rental.

Hawks have no reason to eat Mrazek deal then if only a 2nd is coming back

Carolina cannot fit both Lehner and Gustafsson if there is no salary going back to Chicago.

 

[bleedgreen]

To
G Robyn Lehner
D Erik Gustafsson
RW Dylan Sikura

To
G Petr Mrazek
C Eutu Luostarinen
Conditional 1st Round Pick in 2020/2021 *

* Canes decide if its Leafs or own 2020 pick but can defer Leafs pick to Hawks in 2021 unprotected if the Leafs pick ends up protected and Canes want to hold onto own 2020 1st

Hawks get a quality prospect in Luostarinen and a 1st round pick while taking on Mrazek's deal (Both Hawks goalies are UFA's after this year)

Canes upgrade in net , get an NHL defender who can slot in on right or left side to help fill some of the void offensively left by Hamilton injury and a winger in Sikura who provides some depth for Canes during stretch run in event of injuries

Thoughts?

It’s a fair deal without the first round draft pick. Sikura isn’t worth anything. He’s showing up in multiple Hawks fans proposals. You’re getting our number one goalie and a good prospect. There’s nothing in this deal worth a first round draft pick, and this isn’t the year the Canes overpay for a rental.

Our gm has said he’s looking for guys with term anyways.

 

[ColbyChaos]

It’s a fair deal without the first round draft pick. Sikura isn’t worth anything. He’s showing up in multiple Hawks fans proposals. You’re getting our number one goalie and a good prospect. There’s nothing in this deal worth a first round draft pick, and this isn’t the year the Canes overpay for a rental.

Our gm has said he’s looking for guys with term anyways.

Nothing about Mrazek is a number one goalie and the great prospect Eetu Luostarinen a prospect so good and so reknown I had to look up to make sure he wasnt a fake. Carolina is dumping a sub replacement level goalie and getting an elite one back while also getting a 60 pt Dman for a nothing prospect that cant even cut it in the A. A first is absolutely included here.

 

[spockBokk]

Nothing about Mrazek is a number one goalie and the great prospect Eetu Luostarinen a prospect so good and so reknown I had to look up to make sure he wasnt a fake. Carolina is dumping a sub replacement level goalie and getting an elite one back while also getting a 60 pt Dman for a nothing prospect that cant even cut it in the A. A first is absolutely included here.

kinda disingenuous to call Gustafsson a 60pt D after his awful season isn’t it?

 

[ColbyChaos]

kinda disingenuous to call Gustafsson a 60pt D after his awful season isn’t it?

Not as close to disingenous as calling Eetu a good prospect and Mrazek anything but a cap dump. Gustafsson could return to 50-60 however the entire team has dropped offensively by this point last season Chicago had 30 more goals scored than they do this season. That said this trade is hilariously skewed for Carolina and god awful in every aspect

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Hawks have no reason to eat Mrazek deal then if only a 2nd is coming back

This

On top of handing them lehner

 

[ColdSteel2]

Canes have zero need for Sikura.

I'd do this deal with NYR's 2nd instead of a 1st. More than anything just to see if Lehner would fit in and be worth giving a big contract to. Lehner + Gustafsson don't make the Canes real contenders and this 1st round is deep so I don't see them moving a top pick for anything short of a good player with term left.

What about a 2nd that becomes a 1st if Carolina wins a round or resigns Lehner?

Lehner would put the Canes over the top IMO. He’s a top 3 goalie in the league this season. That’s why the Hawks should have a lane to getting a 1st.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Not as close to disingenous as calling Eetu a good prospect

How would you know? Your knowledge was so exhaustive you had to look him up.

 

[tony d]

I doubt Chicago would do this.

 

[GoldiFox]

What about a 2nd that becomes a 1st if Carolina wins a round or resigns Lehner?

Lehner would put the Canes over the top IMO. He’s a top 3 goalie in the league this season. That’s why the Hawks should have a lane to getting a 1st.

In that case it would be a 2021 2nd which becomes a 2021 1st if re-signed. As Free Agency happens after the 2020 draft.

The problem with trading a rental goalie (even a good one) is that every real Cup contender already has a starter. The Canes were barely contending when they had a healthy, Norris-caliber Hamilton. Much less now that he is missing the rest of the season.

The time to spend 1st round picks to compete for a Cup is at least 2-3 years out for Carolina's core. And personally I prefer them to wait and sign Markstrom in UFA.

 

[goldenbladz1]

In that case it would be a 2021 2nd which becomes a 2021 1st if re-signed. As Free Agency happens after the 2020 draft.

The problem with trading a rental goalie (even a good one) is that every real Cup contender already has a starter. The Canes were barely contending when they had a healthy, Norris-caliber Hamilton. Much less now that he is missing the rest of the season.

The time to spend 1st round picks to compete for a Cup is at least 2-3 years out for Carolina's core. And personally I prefer them to wait and sign Markstrom in UFA.

That makes sense as Carolina is still a very young group. It sucks you lost Hamilton for the season.

 

[ColbyChaos]

How would you know? Your knowledge was so exhaustive you had to look him up.

Which is exactly why he isnt a good prospect if he literally is unknown no name prospect and has not been talked about since being drafted. Dude wont amount to anything, trade sucks. If youre going to pass off a player as a good prospect it is imperative to at least make sure they are actually good not a nobody like Eetu.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Which is exactly why he isnt a good prospect if he literally is unknown no name prospect

No, you just don't know what you're talking about.

 

[ColbyChaos]

No, you just don't know what you're talking about.

There is nothing Eetu is doing that is wow'ing people besides Canes fans into thinking he is a solid prospect. 3 years later after being drafted and he still hasnt done anything impressive even in the minors. He is not a top (let alone a good) prospect in the slightest. He isnt anything special and is not a prospect that is going to be used in a deadline trade. Carolina has to give up something of actual value

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

There is nothing Eetu is doing that is wow'ing people besides Canes fans into thinking he is a solid prospect. 3 years later after being drafted and he still hasnt done anything impressive even in the minors. He is not a top (let alone a good) prospect in the slightest. He isnt anything special and is not a prospect that is going to be used in a deadline trade. Carolina has to give up something of actual value

Do you think it's fair to talk authoritatively about things to which you've admitted total ignorance? Like, if I said I'd never heard of Erik Gustafsson, is it really valid for me to take that and conclude that's because he's terrible (instead of gaps in my own knowledge)? And no, I'm not comparing the ignorance of a B prospect of one of the least followed teams in the League and a dman with one good year on one of the most followed.

It's one thing to decline the deal after looking up a prospects' stats. It's another to then make an authoritative value judgement. That's what I disagree with. If you don't want to do the deal, that's totally fine.

Re: Eetu: First, 24 points in 42 games as a 21 year old rookie coming over to North America is not bad at all, second, Eetu projects as a bottom 6 center who can skate, add physicality and score enough to not be a detriment.

Re: The deal, the Hawks would have to take a cond. 1st on Lehner re-signing. Carolina putatively tried to sign Lehner this offseason, to which Lehner refused to take a lower AAV, longer term deal, and after another good year with the Hawks I can't see him demanding anything less than a premium. Gustafsson is going to ask for a deal based on his absurdly good year, to which I can't see Carolina acceding. He only signs if he strikes out in the first week of free agency and Carolina makes him take a lower AAV, longer term deal. Point being, they're both going to be pure rentals.

The other thing is, while Mrazek hasn't been great, the real issue isn't goaltending, but Carolina allowing way too many high danger scoring chances. Their transition defense is poor, and hasn't been helped by losing Hamilton to injury and de Haan/Faulk last offseason. Lehner is absolutely an improvement on Mrazek, but it's not clear at all that a better goaltender solves their problems.

Carolina would ask for the 1st to be cond. on Lehner re-signing, knowing that this was very unlikely to happen.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

This is peak hf.

“I’ve never heard of him but I’ve heard enough to know he sucks”

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Gustafsson is a weak fit; a RHD of any type or a defensive LHD is what is needed.

I'd dangle a 2nd + B-prospect for Lehner on deadline day. In the absence of an extension, if the Hawks can do better or want to let him walk as a UFA in protest, more power to them.

Carolina has some leverage here, imo. The goalie market is looking pretty rough this year. The demand is as limited as 1 team. The Canes are a 2nd tier contender in the East. They're not loading up for a cup run. Anything more than that return doesn't make sense.

Of course, I'm not the owner. Dundon apparently does not care for rentals. Carolina, the actual team, may not be interested in trading for Lehner at all.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Do you think it's fair to talk authoritatively about things to which you've admitted total ignorance? Like, if I said I'd never heard of Erik Gustafsson, is it really valid for me to take that and conclude that's because he's terrible (instead of gaps in my own knowledge)? And no, I'm not comparing the ignorance of a B prospect of one of the least followed teams in the League and a dman with one good year on one of the most followed.

It's one thing to decline the deal after looking up a prospects' stats. It's another to then make an authoritative value judgement. That's what I disagree with. If you don't want to do the deal, that's totally fine.

Re: Eetu: First, 24 points in 42 games as a 21 year old rookie coming over to North America is not bad at all, second, Eetu projects as a bottom 6 center who can skate, add physicality and score enough to not be a detriment.

Re: The deal, the Hawks would have to take a cond. 1st on Lehner re-signing. Carolina putatively tried to sign Lehner this offseason, to which Lehner refused to take a lower AAV, longer term deal, and after another good year with the Hawks I can't see him demanding anything less than a premium. Gustafsson is going to ask for a deal based on his absurdly good year, to which I can't see Carolina acceding. He only signs if he strikes out in the first week of free agency and Carolina makes him take a lower AAV, longer term deal. Point being, they're both going to be pure rentals.

The other thing is, while Mrazek hasn't been great, the real issue isn't goaltending, but Carolina allowing way too many high danger scoring chances. Their transition defense is poor, and hasn't been helped by losing Hamilton to injury and de Haan/Faulk last offseason. Lehner is absolutely an improvement on Mrazek, but it's not clear at all that a better goaltender solves their problems.

Carolina would ask for the 1st to be cond. on Lehner re-signing, knowing that this was very unlikely to happen.

This is peak hf.

“I’ve never heard of him but I’ve heard enough to know he sucks”

If he was as great of a prospect Canes fans are pretending he is he would have at least some form of recognition when you could ask any neutral party and no one would even know who he is or what team drafted him. And he was never even mentioned by other Canes fans as one of their good prospects until this proposal popped up which is suspect. Thats like me saying Cole Moberg is a good prospect solely because you dont know him despite unimpressive production. If he was as good of prospect as Canes fans say he is he wouldnt have been seen as a complete no name

Hayden Fleury, Ryan suzuki, Alex Nedlojvic (sp) Antonii Honka, Jack Drury, are actual prospects of note Eetu isnt in that tier and if an expanded deal would to include Saad someone a lot better would have to be included contray to what Canes posters seem to think

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Pretty garbage return for Chicago while Carolina gets all the best pieces of value outside of the 1st pick, which makes it less appeasing considering how much is going to Carolina. Chicago is better off shipping off each of those pieces elsewhere to other teams before accepting that sorry offer