Chelios named team ambassador

[LordKOTL]

Personally, from many 2nd hand stories Chelli has the ultimate "holier than thou" uberjock attitute, whatever.




But, what I hate about this stuff is that I would be one of these hated persons if I had their stature in society. I've been in a bar fight or two when threatened and can say if some cab driver locked the rear doors before I could get my wallet out I'd not be happy.

But, even worse, I had a police report for domestic violence filed by an ex back in college. She calls me up one day to give me some money she owed me, I go to pick it up and she wants to rekindle the flame. I have a few honest/choice words towards her "character" and she flips out. First throwing a piece of pottery, then screaming, then arms flailing at me as hard/fast as she can. I put my arms around my face and she swings away for 30 seconds until I calmly push her arms off me then leave her dorm room.

A few hours later a cop shows up at my place. He says he got a call/report of abuse and the girl has bruises. I asked him where the bruises were and he says on her fists/wrists. I asked the guy if he thought a fella twice her size would abuse here wrists so badly. After my roommates chimed in with details of the crazy things she'd done the past few months the officer said "please don't visit her again" and walked off.

But, according the record, I was the bad guy. I'd never laid a hand on her except to push her off of me when she was trying to bash my head in.

You don't know anything until you get the full story. If I was an NHL'er the media would crucify me.

Yep. I think the media crucified Varlamov until they found out his g/f-fiancee-wife was the guano one, not him. Then, they just let the issue fade away. In the political climate today it's not pretty, but it's at least a step forward from the one where *real* domesic violence is swept under the rug.

Personally, I think there's a different litmus test between retiring a number and being an ambassador. As an ambassador you *must* exude the qualities the organization wants to be associated with. To wit: if a player had a GOAT career but simply was not a fan of children, he shouldn't be an ambassador if the team wants to have a child-friendly or family-friendly image.

I have no issues with Chelios' number being retired--although from a "honored 'hawk" standpoint I think Seabs is a bit more deserving with the fact he has so far been a 'hawk his entire career, has the 3 cups, was Captain Clutch and captained the captain. I do think there might be a joint honoring as well. But, given Chelios' history with the 'hawks and their fans I don't think he fits the ambassador mold--he doesn't evoke goodwill from/towards the fans.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Personally, from many 2nd hand stories Chelli has the ultimate "holier than thou" uberjock attitute, whatever.




But, what I hate about this stuff is that I would be one of these hated persons if I had their stature in society. I've been in a bar fight or two when threatened and can say if some cab driver locked the rear doors before I could get my wallet out I'd not be happy.

But, even worse, I had a police report for domestic violence filed by an ex back in college. She calls me up one day to give me some money she owed me, I go to pick it up and she wants to rekindle the flame. I have a few honest/choice words towards her "character" and she flips out. First throwing a piece of pottery, then screaming, then arms flailing at me as hard/fast as she can. I put my arms around my face and she swings away for 30 seconds until I calmly push her arms off me then leave her dorm room.

A few hours later a cop shows up at my place. He says he got a call/report of abuse and the girl has bruises. I asked him where the bruises were and he says on her fists/wrists. I asked the guy if he thought a fella twice her size would abuse here wrists so badly. After my roommates chimed in with details of the crazy things she'd done the past few months the officer said "please don't visit her again" and walked off.

But, according the record, I was the bad guy. I'd never laid a hand on her except to push her off of me when she was trying to bash my head in.

You don't know anything until you get the full story. If I was an NHL'er the media would crucify me.

I always say if you’re looking for the negative in something or somebody else, you’re going to find it. From there, once you’ve gone down that road, you can fill in the blanks however you want. It’s like anything else in life, it can be whatever you want it to be. If you want to be a hateful, negative person, that’s who you’re going to be.

So when you become famous and get crucified, just say this into the camera. “If I didn’t even know this person and everything still unfolded as it did, would you be treating me any differently? No. If I was the aggressor and completely in the wrong, would you be treating me any differently? No. If everything unfolded as I’ve explained, would you be treating me any differently? No. And that is why I don’t care what you say.”

 

[piteus]

I always say if you’re looking for the negative in something or somebody else, you’re going to find it. From there, once you’ve gone down that road, you can fill in the blanks however you want. It’s like anything else in life, it can be whatever you want it to be. If you want to be a hateful, negative person, that’s who you’re going to be.

So when you become famous and get crucified, just say this into the camera. “If I didn’t even know this person and everything still unfolded as it did, would you be treating me any differently? No. If I was the aggressor and completely in the wrong, would you be treating me any differently? No. If everything unfolded as I’ve explained, would you be treating me any differently? No. And that is why I don’t care what you say.”

This is the thing ... I'm not looking to be negative towards Chelios. I want to find a reason to hug him again. I honestly don't care about the 'ambassador' thing. However, retiring a number is permanent.

I don't dislike Chelios. However, I'm not jumping up and down if the Hawks ever retire his number. If the Hawks retired Seabrook's number ... I'd still be cheering although his performance on the ice most likely doesn't deserve it. Regardless of his contract, Seabrook is our guy AND gave up his body for Cups. Fans have a deep emotional attachment to Brent.

Chris Chelios is one of the greatest DMen to play the game. He might be the greatest DMen in Blackhawk history. His peak playing career was with the Balckhawks. Chelios is a Chicago kid. He was the Blackhawks captain. Although Chelios playing career was for the most part divided evenly among 3 franchises, he still played the most for the Hawks by a small margin.

All that said and half the Hawks' fan base still has an issue if his number should be retired. Chris Chelios must have done something pretty stupid to get that kind of reaction from the Chicago fans. It's not like this is fresh. Chelios was traded almost 20 years ago! The hurt he caused is deep.

REMEMBER, the Hawks traded Dennis Savard for Chris Chelios. Dennis Savard is still one of the most beloved Blackhawks EVER and he was traded back to his "hometown." That says something. It's not like Blackhawk fans are irrational.

 

[ColdSteel2]

This is the thing ... I'm not looking to be negative towards Chelios. I want to find a reason to hug him again. I honestly don't care about the 'ambassador' thing. However, retiring a number is permanent.

I don't dislike Chelios. However, I'm not jumping up and down if the Hawks ever retire his number. If the Hawks retired Seabrook's number ... I'd still be cheering although his performance on the ice most likely doesn't deserve it. Regardless of his contract, Seabrook is our guy AND gave up his body for Cups. Fans have a deep emotional attachment to Brent.

Chris Chelios is one of the greatest DMen to play the game. He might be the greatest DMen in Blackhawk history. His peak playing career was with the Balckhawks. Chelios is a Chicago kid. He was the Blackhawks captain. Although Chelios playing career was for the most part divided evenly among 3 franchises, he still played the most for the Hawks by a small margin.

All that said and half the Hawks' fan base still has an issue if his number should be retired. Chris Chelios must have done something pretty stupid to get that kind of reaction from the Chicago fans. It's not like this is fresh. Chelios was traded almost 20 years ago! The hurt he caused is deep.

REMEMBER, the Hawks traded Dennis Savard for Chris Chelios. Dennis Savard is still one of the most beloved Blackhawks EVER and he was traded back to his "hometown." That says something. It's not like Blackhawk fans are irrational.

Well, it seems as if some people in the thread do dislike him and seemingly nothing would change that. Good on you for leaving the door open for him to mend fences. I hope he has a positive impact with his new role and can conjure up forgiveness. He’s clearly made some mistakes in the past. Let’s just watch what he does now and see if we can leave the past where it is. But we have to let go of the past now that he is trying to fix things. It’s up to him if he wants to explain those past incidents. He may just want to move forward in a new direction.

My main point as it relates to Chelios is that he doesn’t owe anyone an explanation for the past. And he would most likely just be telling people what they want to hear so what’s the point if it’s just fabricated. He may have been a different person then. He may have been hateful toward the organization or the fans or Bettman or whoever. If he wants to change that, good on him, it’s never too late.

Chelios hasn’t done anything that a rational person would find unforgivable as far as I know. This isn’t a Bobby Hull situation where I can see not ever wanting to forgive him. Not even remotely close and it greatly cheapens the act of beating, raping or killing someone, real wrongdoings that matter, when people even unknowingly equate them with anything else in terms of forgiveness.

Everyone has their line. But I like how you used the word rational. That’s what it is about. A rational person would, in my opinion, draw the line of being unforgivable only above the most heinous of acts, not simply below their perception of themselves.

 

[piteus]

Well, it seems as if some people in the thread do dislike him and seemingly nothing would change that. Good on you for leaving the door open for him to mend fences. I hope he has a positive impact with his new role and can conjure up forgiveness. He’s clearly made some mistakes in the past. Let’s just watch what he does now and see if we can leave the past where it is. But we have to let go of the past now that he is trying to fix things. It’s up to him if he wants to explain those past incidents. He may just want to move forward in a new direction.

My main point as it relates to Chelios is that he doesn’t owe anyone an explanation for the past. And he would most likely just be telling people what they want to hear so what’s the point if it’s just fabricated. He may have been a different person then. He may have been hateful toward the organization or the fans or Bettman or whoever. If he wants to change that, good on him, it’s never too late.

Chelios hasn’t done anything that a rational person would find unforgivable as far as I know. This isn’t a Bobby Hull situation where I can see not ever wanting to forgive him. Not even remotely close and it greatly cheapens the act of beating, raping or killing someone, real wrongdoings that matter, when people even unknowingly equate them with anything else in terms of forgiveness.

Everyone has their line. But I like how you used the word rational. That’s what it is about. A rational person would, in my opinion, draw the line of being unforgivable only above the most heinous of acts, not simply below their perception of themselves.

You make good points. That's why I will wait to see what Chelios says and does. However, he just can't leave it like it is and think it will be just forgotten ... not to the loyal fans who unconditionally defended him when he wore the Hawks sweater. No one is asking for an apology. I want to know why we should put our trust in him again. I want to like him as a Blackhawk again.

Let me be clear ... this has nothing to do with real life. This is from a "fandom" perspective. As a fan, we can be more emotional and a bit irrational. This does not trickle into real life. In the big picture, this Chelios "drama" is inconsequential.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

He’s an ambassador. He’s there to sign autographs and drink with Bobby Hull. Unless he’s working in hockey ops this won’t change anything for me.

 

[ColdSteel2]

He’s an ambassador. He’s there to sign autographs and drink with Bobby Hull. Unless he’s working in hockey ops this won’t change anything for me.

He’s there to do whatever he wants with it. If all he does is drink with Bobby Hull and sign autographs, I don’t expect people to welcome him back any more than they did Hull. He deserves the benefit of the doubt though.

So he wore the wrong jersey and said some things he shouldn’t have, did some things he shouldn’t have. He still has time to make a positive impact beyond signing autographs. Look at Kane. He turned things around and continues to move in a positive direction on and off the ice. People have been calling for him to get a letter or at least acknowledging his place as a team leader. That would have seemed highly unlikely a few years ago but here we are. Give the man a blank slate and see what he does with it. If you take an attitude that there’s nothing he can do to undo his past transgressions then yeah, you’re right, nothing is going to change for you. You’ve forgiven Kane, have you not?

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Whatever.

He was one of the first REALLY great local boys to establish themself in the NHL. So seeing some of his decisions in his career, I'm just not thrilled with his reconnection with the franchise.

"Too little, too late" is pretty much how i take this

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

He’s there to do whatever he wants with it. If all he does is drink with Bobby Hull and sign autographs, I don’t expect people to welcome him back any more than they did Hull. He deserves the benefit of the doubt though.

So he wore the wrong jersey and said some things he shouldn’t have, did some things he shouldn’t have. He still has time to make a positive impact beyond signing autographs. Look at Kane. He turned things around and continues to move in a positive direction on and off the ice. People have been calling for him to get a letter or at least acknowledging his place as a team leader. That would have seemed highly unlikely a few years ago but here we are. Give the man a blank slate and see what he does with it. If you take an attitude that there’s nothing he can do to undo his past transgressions then yeah, you’re right, nothing is going to change for you. You’ve forgiven Kane, have you not?

Lol you’re seriously overreacting to what I said. I’m talking about his place solely as a sports figure, not about him as a person. If he moves into hockey ops and helps this team achieve greatness again, sure, he can win his way into my good graces.

They’re paying ambassadors to be Tommy Hawk. It just doesn’t move the needle for me.

 

[HeisenBaez]

When I was growing up, there was three Blackhawks that I remember fondly: Chelios, Amonte and Jeremy Roenick. There was others, but those three stood out for me.

When I think about Chelios, my first though is Blackhawks. I have to look it up on the internet to realize he played for the Canadians and that he had a lengthy stay in Detroit. So yeah, I welcome Chelios back to the organization he never should have left. If that annoys those fans who still begrudge him for leaving, then so be it.

I look forward to the day they put his number in the rafters. You know they will, bringing him back as an Ambassador is the first step into making that happen. For those who don't like it, I don't know what to tell you other than, Chelios deserves to have his number retire because of his play on the ice, and not what he did off the ice.

 

[Sarava]

I loved Chelios in his time here. If I could separate myself for a moment from my Hawk fandom, I can see why he wanted out. But it just sucked, and honestly, I don't see what the point of this is. But as JD said, it's better than Bobby Hull.

If I were the Hawks - I would focus a lot more on Jeremy Roenick. He loved it here and never wanted to leave. He cried when the Hawks won the cup in 2010.

Oh and I don't think 7 should be retired for either Seabrook or Chelios. Chelios only spent about 1/3 of his career here and didn't win any cups (close in 92 though). And Seabrook just isn't at that level IMO. I'd retire #81 for Hossa before retiring #7.

 

[piteus]

When I was growing up, there was three Blackhawks that I remember fondly: Chelios, Amonte and Jeremy Roenick. There was others, but those three stood out for me.

When I think about Chelios, my first though is Blackhawks. I have to look it up on the internet to realize he played for the Canadians and that he had a lengthy stay in Detroit. So yeah, I welcome Chelios back to the organization he never should have left. If that annoys those fans who still begrudge him for leaving, then so be it.

I look forward to the day they put his number in the rafters. You know they will, bringing him back as an Ambassador is the first step into making that happen. For those who don't like it, I don't know what to tell you other than, Chelios deserves to have his number retire because of his play on the ice, and not what he did off the ice.

Leaving is not the reason fans begrudge Chelios. Hawk fans aren't that irrational. It's Chelios who chose to burn the bridge with Chicago FANS after he left. Almost all Hawk fans showed their venom toward Bill Wirtz when he traded Roenick, Chelios, and Belfour.

The Blackhawks obtained Chelios for Savard. Not one Hawk fan dislikes Dennis Savard. While some Hawk fans cringe with Roenick's "meatheadedness" on the air, we're still fond of him. We didn't have an issue when Roenick pulled for both the Flyers and Hawks in the Finals. It was understood. Because Belfour is so intense, he had a reputation as a jerk. However, not many fans disparage Belfour because it was Wirtz who refused to pay him.

People have to understand that no Hawk fan is angry just because Chelios left for Detroit. At the time, the anger was spewed at Bill Wirtz.

 

[Blue Liner]

Facts are facts and Chelios won two Cups with Detroit but he wasn't an impact player in Detroit like he was in Chicago or Montreal. He had a lesser role and wasn't his peak self by then. Statistically and in hardware (three Norris trophies all won prior to Detroit) he was at his peak with Montreal and Chicago, and won two of his Norris trophies while a Blackhawk.

And if you really want to break it down, he spent six full seasons with Montreal, nine full seasons with Chicago (was traded at the 65 game point his final season), and nine full seasons with Detroit. All in all, I just feel his post-Hawks stuff and his not winning a Cup here really clouds how incredible his tenure in Chicago was for some people. And this is directed at no one person, just in general from some stuff I've read in here and seen and heard elsewhere. You can actually make a pretty compelling argument that his personal-best stretch of his career was his time with the Hawks, he just didn't win a Cup here but did in his other two stops and that seems to carry more weight with people, as is often the case with championships in sports.

EDIT: I also just remembered he won a National Championship at Wisconsin, too. Guy won a title everywhere except here.

 

[Blue Liner]

Leaving is not the reason fans begrudge Chelios. Hawk fans aren't that irrational. It's Chelios who chose to burn the bridge with Chicago FANS after he left. Almost all Hawk fans showed their venom toward Bill Wirtz when he traded Roenick, Chelios, and Belfour.

The Blackhawks obtained Chelios for Savard. Not one Hawk fan dislikes Dennis Savard. While some Hawk fans cringe with Roenick's "meatheadedness" on the air, we're still fond of him. We didn't have an issue when Roenick pulled for both the Flyers and Hawks in the Finals. It was understood. Because Belfour is so intense, he had a reputation as a jerk. However, not many fans disparage Belfour because it was Wirtz who refused to pay him.

People have to understand that no Hawk fan is angry just because Chelios left for Detroit. At the time, the anger was spewed at Bill Wirtz.

I don't think this is true. People pasted Chelios and still do because of his publicly saying he'd never play for Detroit. People held that part of it against him and still do. It's faded over time but that was a rallying cry for many for a long, long time.

 

[piteus]

Facts are facts and Chelios won two Cups with Detroit but he wasn't an impact player in Detroit like he was in Chicago or Montreal. He had a lesser role and wasn't his peak self by then. Statistically and in hardware (three Norris trophies all won prior to Detroit) he was at his peak with Montreal and Chicago, and won two of his Norris trophies while a Blackhawk.

And if you really want to break it down, he spent six full seasons with Montreal, nine full seasons with Chicago (was traded at the 65 game point his final season), and nine full seasons with Detroit. All in all, I just feel his post-Hawks stuff and his not winning a Cup here really clouds how incredible his tenure in Chicago was for some people. And this is directed at no one person, just in general from some stuff I've read in here and seen and heard elsewhere. You can actually make a pretty compelling argument that his personal-best stretch of his career was his time with the Hawks, he just didn't win a Cup here but did in his other two stops and that seems to carry more weight with people, as is often the case with championships in sports.

I never heard any Hawk fan say Chelios didn't play his prime in Chicago. He won 2 Norris Trophies in Chicago. No one blames Chelios for not winning the Cup in Chicago either. Losing Lemieux and Jagr is no shame. No one blamed Savard for falling short against Gretzky and Messier.

Chelios' is arguably the best Hawk DMen ever in his 8.5 seasons in Chicago. That's never been the issue.

 

[piteus]

I don't think this is true. People pasted Chelios and still do because of his publicly saying he'd never play for Detroit. People held that part of it against him and still do. It's faded over time but that was a rallying cry for many for a long, long time.

I specifically remember, as a Hawk fan, the venom spewed at Bill Wirtz. Yeah ... going to Detroit sucked ... but he was TRADED there. It's not like Chelios had much of a choice anyways. And MOST Hawk fans understood Chelios going after another Cup at the "end" of his career. The guy was in his late 30s when he was traded.

It sucked Chelios went to Detroit. That's not the reason Chelios burned the bridge with Chicago fans. That was 20 years ago. Chicago fans aren't that irrational. That's more Boston.

 

[ChiHawks10]

There is much more involved in my dislike of Chelios than just the fact that he went to Detroit. He was a shitty person, overall. Being traded to Detroit is just the icing on the cake.

I still have a ton of respect for him as a player. I couldn't care less about him coming back as an ambassador. Doesn't bother me either way. As someone else said, much better than Bobby Hull, AINEC.

He was also one of my favorite Hawks when I was growing up. Doesn't mean I can't dislike him as a person.

 

[Blue Liner]

I never heard any Hawk fan say Chelios didn't play his prime in Chicago. He won 2 Norris Trophies in Chicago. No one blames Chelios for not winning the Cup in Chicago either. Losing Lemieux and Jagr is no shame. No one blamed Savard for falling short against Gretzky and Messier.

Chelios' is arguably the best Hawk DMen ever in his 8.5 seasons in Chicago. That's never been the issue.

There are a lot of people, maybe in many cases those who were really young during his tenure here, who really harp on the fact that he's a lesser Blackhawk than Canadien or Wing because he won Cups there and not here. I was illustrating against that point. Maybe you've never heard those people, but I have in droves and I'm willing to bet it's even been loosely eluded to in this thread (I haven't read all of the posts). That was my only point.

As for his trade, I thought I had understood it that he was given the option to accept the trade or not and opted to accept it. If that is true, he made the choice, the choice wasn't made for him. And this isn't me blaming him for leaving one bit.

 

[piteus]

There are a lot of people, maybe in many cases those who were really young during his tenure here, who really harp on the fact that he's a lesser Blackhawk than Canadien or Wing because he won Cups there and not here. I was illustrating against that point. Maybe you've never heard those people, but I have in droves and I'm willing to bet it's even been loosely eluded to in this thread (I haven't read all of the posts). That was my only point.

As for his trade, I thought I had understood it that he was given the option to accept the trade or not and opted to accept it. If that is true, he made the choice, the choice wasn't made for him. And this isn't me blaming him for leaving one bit.

Chelios was in his late 30s when he was traded to Detroit. He was ring chasing. The Hawks were rebuilding. While it sucked and a surprise Chelios went Detroit, the venom was pointed towards Bill Wirtz.

There are plenty of instances Chelios trolling Hawk FANS after the trade. That was THE ISSUE. Sure ... we were down on Chelios when he went to Detroit initially. However, that doesn't linger over time. It was 20 years ago. Chicago fans aren't like that.

Jim McMahon and Steve McMichael both played for Green Bay and they are still loved in Chicago. Charles Oakley played for the New York Knicks and we still fondly remember his time in Chicago being Jordan's bodyguard. In fact, he came back to play for the Bulls.

 

[Blue Liner]

Chelios was in his late 30s when he was traded to Detroit. He was ring chasing. The Hawks were rebuilding. While it sucked and a surprise Chelios went Detroit, the venom was pointed towards Bill Wirtz.

There are plenty of instances Chelios trolling Hawk FANS after the trade. That was THE ISSUE. Sure ... we were down on Chelios when he went to Detroit initially. However, that doesn't linger over time. It was 20 years ago. Chicago fans aren't like that.

Jim McMahon and Steve McMichael both played for Green Bay and they are still loved in Chicago. Charles Oakley played for the New York Knicks and we still fondly remember his time in Chicago being Jordan's bodyguard. In fact, he came back to play for the Bulls.

I specifically stated that the angst over his going to Detroit in and of itself has faded over time. Don't really have anything else to contribute to this.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

My attitude with Chelios is this.... he was before my time, I don't really care about him. I only started following hockey when I was in college and Bill Wirtz died literally the offseason after I started watching hockey, so the rumors of the Hawks being on TV again were enough to sway me into being a Hawks fans rather than choosing a different team that I could actually follow. With that in mind though, I certainly couldn't hold anyone wanting to bolt from the old regime against them given that this fanbase did just that as well.

The Wings jersey in the Hawks team photo is the sticking point to me. That's akin to the LeBron promise for a load of titles in Miami before they even started playing, which was what turned an otherwise unfavorable but forgettable instance into something you latch on to even if you don't have a connection to the era.

 

[piteus]

I specifically stated that the angst over his going to Detroit in and of itself has faded over time. Don't really have anything else to contribute to this.

And I specifically agreed it faded over time but fan have different issues with Chelios.

Honestly, it's not a big deal. Whatever happens ... happens. All I want is an explanation from Chelios why he went out of the way to troll Hawk fans. We didn't deserve it. I think that's what most of us want. That's it.

 

[Blue Liner]

And I specifically agreed it faded over time but fan have different issues with Chelios.

Honestly, it's not a big deal. Whatever happens ... happens. All I want is an explanation from Chelios why he went out of the way to troll Hawk fans. We didn't deserve it. I think that's what most of us want. That's it.

Did we just become friends?

 

[piteus]

Did we just become friends?

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Yep. I think the media crucified Varlamov until they found out his g/f-fiancee-wife was the guano one, not him. Then, they just let the issue fade away. In the political climate today it's not pretty, but it's at least a step forward from the one where *real* domesic violence is swept under the rug.

Personally, I think there's a different litmus test between retiring a number and being an ambassador. As an ambassador you *must* exude the qualities the organization wants to be associated with. To wit: if a player had a GOAT career but simply was not a fan of children, he shouldn't be an ambassador if the team wants to have a child-friendly or family-friendly image.

I have no issues with Chelios' number being retired--although from a "honored 'hawk" standpoint I think Seabs is a bit more deserving with the fact he has so far been a 'hawk his entire career, has the 3 cups, was Captain Clutch and captained the captain. I do think there might be a joint honoring as well. But, given Chelios' history with the 'hawks and their fans I don't think he fits the ambassador mold--he doesn't evoke goodwill from/towards the fans.

Seabs has historically been "Mr. Overtime" as well.
But I still wouldn't retire his number.