Checkers V: Macgregor Kilpatrick Trophy Edition

Discussion in 'Carolina Hurricanes' started by Unsustainable, Apr 12, 2019.

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  1. WreckingCrew Registered User

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    That's a damn good question...do other NHL teams own AHL teams? Hard info on who does, but it actually looks like half the AHL teams are owned by someone in their NHL ownership group? It wouldn't surprise me in the future if all NHL teams owned their AHL team in some capacity, but it also makes sense not to require it because some teams struggle as is with turning a profit. Plus some AHL teams (Hershey, Chicago) are fiercely independent. So I retract my contract question lol They just have to operate as separate entities until all NHL teams own AHL teams?
     
  2. CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

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    it's not a popular move, but what were the options left once St. Louis was bought out of the agreement in SA, THE PAST relationship between the two in Rosemont is untenable..... Florida isn't a better option for them either once St. Louis landed Springfield, and then there's the rule that forces each team to be affiliated to be an active franchise..... more and more teams as Seattle comes aboard are going the owner/operation/affiliate plan than the independent ownership which has changed dramatically the last 6-7 years....
     
  3. go comets Registered User

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    With the Canes only signing a one year agreement, that tells me there are more moves coming next off season.
     
  4. Navin R Slavin The Artist Formerly Known as Hank Sponsor

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    Right. It feels like there are more shoes dropping. We just don't know what they are yet.

    I worry that their plan, whatever it is, will be too clever. But again, I don't really know shit about it, so.
     
  5. CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

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    16 of the 32 are in some form owned outright or have close ties to the parent club, once Seattle and Palm Springs start up..... the reason you're not seeing any relocation talks around Hershey is that franchise is governed by a trust decreed from the the founder of the city, Milton Hershey, rather than the traditional independent ownerships you see elsewhere... then there's the leases similar to what the Checkers did leaving the arena they shared to return to the Coliseum, so in essence, Hershey cannot be sold for relocation or bought by an outside interest for said purpose because the trust has all rights to the operation.... Chicago likely will eventually be sold and not controlled by the current ownership if Levin goes away such as what occurred to Portland in 1997, as our founder suddenly passed, and the rights transferred to a family trust, and then to the group that operated them and how that transpired with a CEO/CFO, type of business structure
     
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  6. CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

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    then again, that could change, you don''t know where the Checkers may be in a year, or sign a longer term PDC with whomever that team that's coming in, whether it's Florida or someone else, just as you saw Springfield do a 5 year, which is approximately the average length of an existing contract with another set of out clauses
     
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  7. Navin R Slavin The Artist Formerly Known as Hank Sponsor

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    I wonder if it was as simple as Dundon saying "owning our affiliate is the right model, sell to us" and Kahn saying "nope" and Dundon saying "ok, next AHL team available for sale becomes the Greensboro Gales, good luck being the bastard stepchild of Carolina hockey."

    Pure speculation, of course, but at least that scenario makes some sense.
     
  8. go comets Registered User

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    I really don't see Dundon wanting to spend millions on a AHL team a year after buying the Canes....
     
  9. bleedgreen Registered User

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    I agree with all that, especially the part where they see the picks and prospects as currency maybe more than other regimes have. I think this is pretty accurate so far, and we'll see how well they keep the balance between too many or few prospects. They've mostly been dealing from the pool they acquired. There's not a ton left there, and the prospects they themselves have drafted will need to start filling the gaps in the AHL.
     
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  10. 42 jerks Not seeking rents

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    Stupid is too strong a word—but he isn't so smart he doesn't succumb to Dunning/Kruger.
    "He knows exactly what he is doing" was the argument when he put up $100 million for the football league. It was nearly unanimous here that he was buying the stats/gaming app. He was "too smart" to make a nearly worthless investment.
     
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  11. My Special Purpose Registered User

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    This is what it looks like when you refuse to do things the way they've always been done, simply because that's the way they've always been done.

    I know this doesn't look great, and it doesn't really appear to make sense to me, either. But you have to know there's *something* going on that we're not privy to. Maybe Checkers management realizes they are basically the perfect minor-league affiliate for the Hurricanes and they are trying to jack up the affiliation fee. They have to know it will be very hard for the Canes to find anything else so ideal, so maybe they're using that as leverage.

    All I know is if they were the Carolina Checkers, this wouldn't be happening.
     
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  12. 42 jerks Not seeking rents

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    This doesn't fit the timeline. Because the first report that Carolina was talking with Chicago was February 11, one week before Gauthier was traded and 13 days before Luostarinen, Priskie, Kuokkanen, and Claesson were traded.
     
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  13. Navin R Slavin The Artist Formerly Known as Hank Sponsor

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    A couple of points here:

    1. He almost certainly was buying the sports app, or thought he was. The AAF was funded like a technology company, which the records of the time clearly demonstrated. In the subsequent bankruptcy proceedings, the app was the only thing of any value, and MGM bought the remaining assets for $2m.

    2. Not all risks pay off. It doesn't mean that he was stupid for making the investment. In the end he lost $70m, which hurts I'm sure, but to a billionaire that's a year's return or less. Plenty of technology startups get big investments and end up returning a goose egg to investors; I've personally been involved in two of them.

    Those points aside, you're 100% right that Dundon was in over his head, and he paid for it.

    I'm not saying he's infallible. I am saying that he takes risks, and makes decisions for which the surface reasoning is not obvious. The AAF example, if anything, strengthens that point.

    I'm also not saying that dumping the Checkers is a good thing. It certainly doesn't look like it right now. I'm saying there's certainly a rationale, and the Borg thinks the maneuver is worth the risk. We just don't know what the maneuver actually is.

    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever." --Nigel Tufnel
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
  14. hblueridgegal Registered User

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    They sell a good story to engage fans and go all in on the hype and (overly at times) promote to get buy-in, sell tix, merch, etc. but aren't quite so good at the walk back when a situation goes south or they make a trade. Leaving fans in the dark about the why - resulting in confusion and anger. Eventually, that may cost them. I am not sure why they'd want to abandon or alienate fans in the largest city in the state populated with transplants. Who may like or understand hockey more so than NC natives.

    Business is business but they could message some of their actions and image better. I wonder how local businesses and companies interact with them now with the newer mgt? Back in the day, two of my former employers had a couple of corporate boxes and tons of seats for hospitality, team building and schmoozing clients. It was great fun and good for business.
     
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  15. Discipline Daddy DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB

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    I just wanted to add that you have quoted my favorite line from my second favorite movie of all time. This quote so perfectly sums up the movie. It's wonderfully cheeky because it is, I feel, spoken from the actor (Christopher Guest) just as much as it is spoken naively by the character (Nigel).

    "We're lucky"
    "Yeah"
    "I mean people should be envying us, you know"
    "Yeah"
    "I do"
    "I do too"
     
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  16. Navin R Slavin The Artist Formerly Known as Hank Sponsor

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    I just want to say, "Saucy Jack", when they got around to doing it, was f***ing brilliant and should have, in fact, been a musical.

    They were so underrated as actual songwriters and musicians. Rhyming "gov'nor" and "shov'n her" is just ludicrous and brilliant.

    I watched this movie around 200 times, and there was a time when I knew every line by heart from start to finish.

     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
  17. Discipline Daddy DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB

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    Indeed, Navin. It is a perfect comedy movie. I will fight anyone on this. I love all Christopher Guest movies, but this is as good as it gets. I haven't seen a funnier movie before.
     
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  18. Navin R Slavin The Artist Formerly Known as Hank Sponsor

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    Also: in case anyone doesn't know it, Christopher Guest is actually The Right Honourable Lord Haden-Guest, who was actually a participating member in The House of Lords until hereditary peerage was eliminated in the House of Lords Act 1999.
     
  19. WreckingCrew Registered User

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    I think what makes it so great is that while it's a spoof...it's also very much NOT a spoof. Rob Halford I remember in an interview once talking about how things like getting lost backstage, not getting paid after a gig, announcing the wrong city, stage prop malfunctions, etc have happened to many bands especially in their early/formative years.
     
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  20. UncMike Registered User

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    Since Vegas left Chicago, my assumption is that their new AHL team will join the pacific.....will the Wolves(new Car affiliate) slot into alignment where the Checkers were or keep their spot in the central
     
  21. Svechhammer 2 Flags 1 Cup

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    If that's it for the Canes and Charlotte, it was a good run.
     
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  22. Boom Boom Apathy Eat cookies, get fat, watch from the couch

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    So back on April 29th, Luke said it could be announced in a week. Has anything official been announced re: the Canes switching to Chicago?
     
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  23. DaveG Noted Jerk

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    Nope, wouldn't surprise me if this whole thing got Carolina and Charlotte talking a bit again about the whole thing. Also wouldn't be shocked if something is announced shortly with the cancellation of the rest of the AHL season
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
  24. Azor Aho Win for Doogie Sponsor

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    Didn't they say it might come around the BOG meeting? That was Friday I think, so probably still within that timeframe given the more important cancelling of the season decisions.
     
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  25. CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

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    THE ONLY thing that was confirmed is the transfer of San Antonio to the Orleans, then Henderson, NV WHENEVER the season does return... also no word on Florida's prospects, either
     
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