Checkers IV: Insert Witty Title Here

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Playmaka
Jan 18, 2014
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Anybody starting to think the problem with our young wingers (Foegele, Kuokkanen, Saarela, Svechnikov and Zykov) is that none of them play with a capable center? IMO, we can rotate all of them into all the wing slots on the team and none of them are going to look any good because we don't have a real, offensive NHL center on our roster. It's really not possible that *all* our young wingers are overrated. We have quality AHL centers (Greg McKegg, Nicolas Roy, Clark Bishop) who make our AHL wingers look good, but when they get to the NHL, they're losing the battle at center and the wingers look like crap.

To sum up, I don't think it's our young wingers who are the issue, it's our (lack of) NHL centers.

Center isn't a very important position. Don't worry about it.
 

Navin R Slavin

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Anybody starting to think the problem with our young wingers (Foegele, Kuokkanen, Saarela, Svechnikov and Zykov) is that none of them play with a capable center? IMO, we can rotate all of them into all the wing slots on the team and none of them are going to look any good because we don't have a real, offensive NHL center on our roster. It's really not possible that *all* our young wingers are overrated. We have quality AHL centers (Greg McKegg, Nicolas Roy, Clark Bishop) who make our AHL wingers look good, but when they get to the NHL, they're losing the battle at center and the wingers look like crap.

To sum up, I don't think it's our young wingers who are the issue, it's our (lack of) NHL centers.

I mean, yes? :)

This is precisely why the org is so desperate to turn Aho into a center, and why the absence of Rask, whatever we may think of him, had been so glaring.
 

WreckingCrew

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Anybody starting to think the problem with our young wingers (Foegele, Kuokkanen, Saarela, Svechnikov and Zykov) is that none of them play with a capable center? IMO, we can rotate all of them into all the wing slots on the team and none of them are going to look any good because we don't have a real, offensive NHL center on our roster. It's really not possible that *all* our young wingers are overrated. We have quality AHL centers (Greg McKegg, Nicolas Roy, Clark Bishop) who make our AHL wingers look good, but when they get to the NHL, they're losing the battle at center and the wingers look like crap.

To sum up, I don't think it's our young wingers who are the issue, it's our (lack of) NHL centers.
I don't disagree at all, but my reasoning on Foegele is that he just doesn't look like quite the same player that he started the year as...he looks like he's lost confidence and when he gets those good breaks because of his speed, he doesn't seem to know what to do with the puck. I think he could use time in the AHL to get his confidence back up and find his game again. Then sometimes giving another player a chance to prove themselves adds a spark to the line
 

The Faulker 27

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Anybody starting to think the problem with our young wingers (Foegele, Kuokkanen, Saarela, Svechnikov and Zykov) is that none of them play with a capable center? IMO, we can rotate all of them into all the wing slots on the team and none of them are going to look any good because we don't have a real, offensive NHL center on our roster. It's really not possible that *all* our young wingers are overrated. We have quality AHL centers (Greg McKegg, Nicolas Roy, Clark Bishop) who make our AHL wingers look good, but when they get to the NHL, they're losing the battle at center and the wingers look like crap.

To sum up, I don't think it's our young wingers who are the issue, it's our (lack of) NHL centers.

I agree we desperately need NHL centers, and I don't have much confidence in our pool in Charlotte becoming the NHL equivalent of what they are in the AHL. I think Svech, and Foegele get good opportunities to score regardless, but just aren't finishing.
 

bleedgreen

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Looks like Velucci is having success moving Necas to wing, so I don’t know if there’s any center in the system coming. Necas looked like a wing to start so we were probably being overly hopeful there in the first place.

I agree with Kev, the center thing really hurts us. It’s interesting that we’re a middling team, as hockey teams are said to be built down the middle with centers and goalies and we’ve been lacking both. We should be worse. It’s painful since we know if we just could solidify those spots we’d probably be a playoff team.

For the record I really like Bishop and would have him be the fourth line center regardless of what happens to Wallmark.
 
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RodTheBawd

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Looks like Velucci is having success moving Necas to wing, so I don’t know if there’s any center in the system coming. Necas looked like a wing to start so we were probably being overly hopeful there in the first place.

I agree with Kev, the center thing really hurts us. It’s interesting that we’re a middling team, as hockey teams are said to be built down the middle with centers and goalies and we’ve been lacking both. We should be worse. It’s painful since we know if we just could solidify those spots we’d probably be a playoff team.

For the record I really like Bishop and would have him be the fourth line center regardless of what happens to Wallmark.

I thought Velucci commented that he expects Necas to grow into a C, but wants to take the W->C development route that a lot of others take (I think he used Seguin as an example)?
 

bleedgreen

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I thought Velucci commented that he expects Necas to grow into a C, but wants to take the W->C development route that a lot of others take (I think he used Seguin as an example)?
Velucci said his point to Necas was that you have to able to play all the forward positions, so when your time in the bigs comes and the coach says “I have a LW spot...” you can say “that’s my spot”. That was from an earlier comment, today I see Velucci added he sees him moving back at some point but that he needs to be flexible in where he plays.

If the Canes are smart they’ll bring him up to play wing when he’s confident enough. He’s not a center. He doesn’t play like one. Forcing a square peg in a round hole isn’t good for the player even if it seems good for the team. It’s really hard to be “too fast” as a winger. He immediately started producing. He looks way more comfortable from what I’ve seen.

He makes sense way more than Lindy ever did for the “let’s let him play wing in the nhl until he’s ready”. I generally hate that, but it makes sense with Necas. We desperately need a righy RW, Williams is the only righty on the team. Necas was struggling with center in Charlotte before the move. Shaya did his ten thoughts thing a couple of weeks ago and it sounded horrible about Necas, even mentioning that the Czech league isn’t that great implying his success there was overblown.

Now he’s playing wing and the toast of the town. Leave him there. For them and for us. We need RW’s as well as centers. Svech belongs on the left.
 

SaskCanesFan

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Velucci said his point to Necas was that you have to able to play all the forward positions, so when your time in the bigs comes and the coach says “I have a LW spot...” you can say “that’s my spot”. That was from an earlier comment, today I see Velucci added he sees him moving back at some point but that he needs to be flexible in where he plays.

If the Canes are smart they’ll bring him up to play wing when he’s confident enough. He’s not a center. He doesn’t play like one. Forcing a square peg in a round hole isn’t good for the player even if it seems good for the team. It’s really hard to be “too fast” as a winger. He immediately started producing. He looks way more comfortable from what I’ve seen.

He makes sense way more than Lindy ever did for the “let’s let him play wing in the nhl until he’s ready”. I generally hate that, but it makes sense with Necas. We desperately need a righy RW, Williams is the only righty on the team. Necas was struggling with center in Charlotte before the move. Shaya did his ten thoughts thing a couple of weeks ago and it sounded horrible about Necas, even mentioning that the Czech league isn’t that great implying his success there was overblown.

Now he’s playing wing and the toast of the town. Leave him there. For them and for us. We need RW’s as well as centers. Svech belongs on the left.

You've said this repeatedly, but as far as I remember you're the only one saying it. I don't get it, why isn't he?
 

Unsustainable

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Shaya's 10 Thoughts: Nov. 28, 2018 - Charlotte Checkers Hockey - gocheckers.com

It was one of the worst performances of the season and it was in stark contrast to the comeback 6-5 overtime victory against Wilkes-Barre just one game earlier. Head coach Mike Vellucci took his team leaders into a room and told them the loss and the effort was totally unacceptable. The consequences of another performance like that would fall on their shoulders.

Since Vellucci moved Martin Necas to the right wing he's scored four goals in five games, including two game winners. Necas seems liberated on the wing with the ability to use his speed and shot more effectively. Vellucci says a player is best suited to stay in the lineup when he can play all three forward positions. Eventually Necas will move to the middle, but at this point, he is playing to his strengths and looks like a new player.

Highlights of Jason’s latest article.
 

bleedgreen

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Speed kills on the wings. It doesn’t really down the middle, lateral mobility and stalling until your play arrives kills in the middle. Or Jstaal style moose down the middle (Carter, Kopitar) Even if Necas has some lateral mobility being as tall as he is with his long stick he runs out of space too quick, regardless Necas has shown to me anyway a killer straight line speed way more consistently than lateral. He likes to race people to space. Wing. He likes to take guys on and drive the net area. Wing. He’s actually pretty good along the boards. Wing. He’s great at beating guys wide. Wing. He’s got jets and wants to use them, until he slows the game down in his brain we’re idiots to try to take that away. I don’t think he wants or can process the defensive side of center at this level, and it doesn’t seem in his best interest to.

His playmaking didn’t stand out at all from the middle either. He doesn’t know how to use space there, he did from the wing. He also had a Hanifin level of defensive awareness, not a laziness but a total lack of recognition of what’s going on behind him and where he should be. His brain isn’t there. That may improve in time but he has the skill to play for us right now.

To me it’s also just a feel thing. Some guys look like they belong at a position or don’t. He never has. He wasn’t supposed to be when I was reading about him. I saw some scouting reports that questioned what position he would be as a pro so I never had it in my head. The team fed us some hype and his wjc performances were there but those are worthless as predictors. Somewhere somehow we started talking about him as not only a center but as a number one guy. Never added up to me so I’m not taking a hard turn here internally.

If a guy does something really well, you can spend a year or two trying to turn him into something else or you can find a way to let him do what he does well naturally. He looked overwhelmed about the center job, and the reports out of Charlotte sounded the same. If he outgrows it at some time and is ready, sure give it a shot. Pegging this guy as a center and using it to justify the off season moves was a Waddell brain fart, let him be good at what he does and see where it goes. I don’t care if we need centers. We have one righty RW, there’s a need there too and with Aho playing center we could use more skilled wingers.

I felt the same way about Brandon Sutter his whole career. He would’ve been way better offensively as a wing, he was good at it.
 
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SaskCanesFan

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You've probably seen more of Necas than I have, so you could very well end up being right. But I don't agree on some of the points made.

Guys like Larkin, McKinnon, and Duchene do very well with speed in the middle. I think Necas has enough lateral ability and puck handling skill, along with his speed, that makes him one of the top players the Canes have on getting through the neutral zone and into the O zone with possession, which you mostly want your centre to do.

He absolutely has issues slowing the game down. But he's also getting used to the small ice and NHL style game. I think that will come just fine in time.

He's a guy I want getting the puck on a breakout, being able to back defenders off with his speed and having the option to dish the puck or skate in either direction. To me the wing limits him too much.
 

emptyNedder

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Guys like Larkin, McKinnon, and Duchene do very well with speed in the middle.
I was thinking the same thing.

Necas is like Aho in that he has had success playing C internationally. That usually translates quite well once the player has 2-3 years in the NHL (Kuznetsov, Haula, Hertl, even Victor Rask).

We need RW’s as well as centers. Svech belongs on the left.
From everything I have read, Svechnikov prefers RW and apparently when he was tried at LW in juniors didn't fare nearly as well. I think it much more common for Europeans to prefer their "off" side--Teravainen is an example. And if you think about power plays (Ovechkin and Laine jump to mind) it is much preferred to have right shots on the left.
The Canes look set for RW (Teravainen, Svech, Williams in Raleigh with Gauthier and Mattheos in the system). LW is more the issue for the next few years. One of Kuokkanen or Saarela needs to become a top six LW in Raleigh or a trade will be needed.
 

bleedgreen

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I was thinking the same thing.

Necas is like Aho in that he has had success playing C internationally. That usually translates quite well once the player has 2-3 years in the NHL (Kuznetsov, Haula, Hertl, even Victor Rask).


From everything I have read, Svechnikov prefers RW and apparently when he was tried at LW in juniors didn't fare nearly as well. I think it much more common for Europeans to prefer their "off" side--Teravainen is an example. And if you think about power plays (Ovechkin and Laine jump to mind) it is much preferred to have right shots on the left.
The Canes look set for RW (Teravainen, Svech, Williams in Raleigh with Gauthier and Mattheos in the system). LW is more the issue for the next few years. One of Kuokkanen or Saarela needs to become a top six LW in Raleigh or a trade will be needed.
Yeah I went over my thinking on that when I posted about it a week or two ago. Goals scorers love the off wing because it opens up the shot if you can take the space to the middle. Svech not only hasn’t done that off the rush even once, he rarely did it in juniors. I saw sweet highlight where he does a hesitation step to the middle and rips a shot for a goal. He more often drives wide in his backhand in a big swoop. That won’t work in the NHL consistently, not without him becoming a much more explosive skater. Which he may. The downside to having a guy on his off wing is he will often drive around the net, then be on his backhand to make a lot of the plays there which even if he has the skill isn’t ideal. Svech is a great passer and playmaker, if he doesn’t take the middle it’s better he’s on the left where he can still make plays driving the net as well as wrap the net and make passes on the other side from his forehand.

He doesn’t dangle like the same way as prime Kovy and Ovie because he uses a short stick with a high lie, he beats guys in tight with his moves. He likes to drive to his backhand a lot, but isn’t quite strong enough to complete it. He isn’t a toe dragger in open space off the rush yet. I don’t think that’s his move. Tough with the stick he has.

Did you like the TO game where he dominated the first period? He played LW that game. I didn’t check to see if he was back on the right but his best play already was from that side.

Ferland usually plays RW and TT on the left, though I’d agree that’s backwards as TT is the only guy who can play off wing on our team in terms of creating offense. He can take the middle consistently. Skinner running face first into elbows is partially what goes wrong when you take the middle poorly. Ferland does his best but being over there limits his ability to drive wide with his huge heel curve with no backhand.

So we have TT often playing left, when he needs to be right. That may be because of the defensive zone. Svech has gone back and forth but belongs on the left even if he prefers right, I’ve seen younger highlights of him on the left by the way and he looks great. That leave Williams as a right on that side and maybe Martinook who is fine over there because he chips and chases.

Svech doesn’t play like Ovie. At this point it’s wasting him to play him on the wrong side. When he’s consistently dangerous and confident, then maybe try it.
 
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emptyNedder

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Did you like the TO game where he dominated the first period? He played LW that game.
Bleed. Agree that Svechnikov was terrific in Toronto game. Not trying to be that guy, but Svechnikov was lined up as RW for the first face-off his line took (18:52 of 1st period) and again for offensive zone face-off a few shifts later (13:32).
 

bleedgreen

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Bleed. Agree that Svechnikov was terrific in Toronto game. Not trying to be that guy, but Svechnikov was lined up as RW for the first face-off his line took (18:52 of 1st period) and again for offensive zone face-off a few shifts later (13:32).
I saw him quite a bit on the left in that game, if I’m wrong I’m wrong. My bad. I was pretty positive right around then he played two games at least on the left.

My point on that game was also he attacked the zone from the left side very well during that game. Which is my point on how he attacks so far. He’s done very little down the right side attacking to me.

PS. So I checked the first shift he played. He was playing LW on that shift, he just took the draw from the right side. While he and Martinook swapped back and forth they came out of their zone with him on the left. I doubt they would swap sides in their own end. Makes sense that he would line up on the right with the left side draw as he’s more the shooter. I’ll check other shifts later when I can go back.
 
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CandyCanes

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Jan 8, 2015
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Checkers won 7-4. Necas with 4 assists. 17 points in his last 17 games after going scoreless in his first 4 or 5 games down there.

Honestly so happy he’s in Charlotte right now. He obviously needed some time to adjust to the North American ice, and is finally adapting. This season in Charlotte will likely prove valuable in his development. His stat line is definitely getting me excited for him. It’s not easy to score at a point per game as a rookie in that league.
 

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