Charlie Huddy for head coach

[Romang67]

Ok, I'm assuming that many folks here have jobs, or understand the concept of working for a living.

Let's imagine that you do what's expected of you at work. Why would you be fired for that?

The Jets, by consensus outside of the Jets forum, were not expected to make the playoffs. You could have made $4 on your $1 bet if you put your money on them to make the playoffs at the start of the season. So, the Jets are performing as expected.

When you get into work tomorrow, imagine YOUR surprise if you're fired for doing your job at a level of reasonable expectation.

I would like to take another approach.

When I start working as a teacher in the future, I will probably not knock down the down and go in, guns a-blazin', having all of my students have straight A's from the start.

I don't think my employer expects this. But because my students are young and ambitious, had a ****** teacher before me, and I just started working, I think they expect me to improve their results.

If my students kept having the same results, that being OK, but nothing great, I think the employer would sooner or later lose patience with me, and move me somewhere else. Even though I'm not directly doing something that goes against my job description, I'm obviously not doing what they hoped I would accomplish.

This is after I've said that I can't do anything to improve these students.

I've said this a lot of times before. At this point, Chevy has locked up a lot of players to long term deals, and this is pretty much the team that he wants. Noel is not getting it done with these players, and appears to have given up (atleast this is what I, and others, gather from his answers to questions from the press). I see Noel as more expendable than most of our core, and I would like to see the core that Chevy believes in get the chance with another core before we mess with it.

 

[peg]

Anyone who thinks Noels "system" is about dump and chase is simply wrong.

I suggest people listen more closely to what he says...not what certain players seem to choose to do:

We "have what we have" in players right now...we don't have "immediate replacements" for players not buying in right now...we need 20 players on the same page or we won't have much success right now...

Anyone who thinks that the Jets powerplay problems are due to coaching needs to take a reality pill. The simple fact is we DO NOT have hockey players who are skilled at "controlling the puck" in the offensive zone or entering into it for that matter. There is a reason all teams pressure our players all over the ice. They are simply not great at "controlling the puck". But certain players have continued to choose to think they can do this and are better than they are...and others look for the pretty goal...or the one extra pass...or the "perfect" one timer shot...or the one extra "individual" move. Certain players are not doing what the coaches are asking/telling them to do...because they put themselves ahead of the collective whole of the team.

The Jets have lots of skilled SPEED players...but very few skilled control puck/stickhandling players...and the system True North and Noel are trying to cultivate has been one of hard work, defensive responsible and to play smart/simple "when nothing else is there".

The Jets issues right now will not be instantly fixed with one trade or head coaching change...because the problems are with the players choices and/or their desire to execute as a collective whole (ie: 20 players)...vs individual wants.

When this team plays as a collective whole and all 20 guys are on the same page and they play consistent simple hard work hockey...they are a joy to watch.

When they don't...they are not...and it has been especially noticeable against the teams in our division this year...where "individual skill" has not been why the other teams have come out with wins.

There is a lot that you have said that I disagree with, but lets just start on your powerplay comment. In the Jets first year back the pp ran at 17.93%. Last year it was at 13.79%. This year it is at 10.91%. We are regressing each year. The players are more or less the same and they seemed to have much better results 2 years ago. Why is that? Either the players have gotten worse (don't think so) or the way they are trying to execute the power play doesn't work (coaching). Plain and simple. No pills required thanks.

 

[Ober]

It's been pretty clear since the beginning of summer that Noel's job is on the line. Management didn't want a lame duck coach, but certainly weren't compelled to committ to him long term. He was definitely going into an "evaluation" season. And it is not going well.

I most certainly don't and won't disagree with this. True North extended Noel for only 1 year for a reason...and that reason is Noel has yet to prove his worth beyond more than 1 year. I personally don't think there are more than 5 coaches right now who should be getting anything more than two year contracts with 1 year extensions...until they prove themselves. Keep in mind any hire here in Winnipeg will most likely not be one of those coaches!

If the players choose to give up on Noel and tune him out...then we should all expect much more than just a simple coaching change...because player character has been misread on many fronts and that will be a much bigger and more difficult/painful situation to deal with for Chevy than coaching.

In my opinion, it is either expectations being the problem OR certain players are!?!? Very unfortunate if Noel pays the price for either of these reasons.

Be careful what you wish for (both "some" fans and some current players)...because motivation is not the problem...communication is not the problem...and systems are not the problem.

 

[Johnny HFBOARDS]

If Noel goes he needs to take Huddy as well.

Fixing a chip in the glass but leaving all the cracks makes no sense.

 

[Ober]

There is a lot that you have said that I disagree with, but lets just start on your powerplay comment. In the Jets first year back the pp ran at 17.93%. Last year it was at 13.79%. This year it is at 10.91%. We are regressing each year. The players are more or less the same and they seemed to have much better results 2 years ago. Why is that? Either the players have gotten worse (don't think so) or the way they are trying to execute the power play doesn't work (coaching). Plain and simple. No pills required thanks.

Penalty killing was 77.5% in Atl, then 80.5%, 79.7% and 83.6% in Wpg. Progression...but has nothing to do with coaching I am guessing.

Stats ultimately mean nothing...look at Boston last year for reference and tell me they have a coaching problem.

The Jets chose to get rid of slow and/or small "stickhandlers"...Stapleton (last year) and Wellwood (this year). These were guys who were comfortable with the puck. The fact is, the Jets have not replaced either with "stickhandlers"...they replaced them with speed, size and/or shooters...Jokinen and Setoguchi.

Just like we have been missing true energy players (with the death of Rypien followed up by the loss of UFA Glass)...we are also sorely lacking in puck possession puck-handlers. These are not coaching issues. We are what we are...and finding these types of players is not as easy as most fans seem to think...without crippling your future for short term relief.

 

[surixon]

Anyone who thinks Noels "system" is about dump and chase is simply wrong.

I suggest people listen more closely to what he says...not what certain players seem to choose to do:

We "have what we have" in players right now...we don't have "immediate replacements" for players not buying in right now...we need 20 players on the same page or we won't have much success right now...

Anyone who thinks that the Jets powerplay problems are due to coaching needs to take a reality pill. The simple fact is we DO NOT have hockey players who are skilled at "controlling the puck" in the offensive zone or entering into it for that matter. There is a reason all teams pressure our players all over the ice. They are simply not great at "controlling the puck". But certain players have continued to choose to think they can do this and are better than they are...and others look for the pretty goal...or the one extra pass...or the "perfect" one timer shot...or the one extra "individual" move. Certain players are not doing what the coaches are asking/telling them to do...because they put themselves ahead of the collective whole of the team.

The Jets have lots of skilled SPEED players...but very few skilled control puck/stickhandling players...and the system True North and Noel are trying to cultivate has been one of hard work, defensive responsible and to play smart/simple "when nothing else is there".

The Jets issues right now will not be instantly fixed with one trade or head coaching change...because the problems are with the players choices and/or their desire to execute as a collective whole (ie: 20 players)...vs individual wants.

When this team plays as a collective whole and all 20 guys are on the same page and they play consistent simple hard work hockey...they are a joy to watch.

When they don't...they are not...and it has been especially noticeable against the teams in our division this year...where "individual skill" has not been why the other teams have come out with wins.

I could just as easily point out a number of systemic flaws in the pp which is all on coaching.

For one overloading one pp unit with nothing but shooters and no passer comes to mind, but yeah its all the players fault for not being able to move the puck around. Failing to use your best forward passing option on the pp or when he was on the pp wasting his talents by having him sit in-front of the net screening the goalie while the person who should have been in-front of the net was acting as the pp qb. I can't fully blame the players when the scheme incorrectly utilizes them.

I'm sorry, but what I see is a team that looks disjointed and is unsure as a collective what its supposed to do. I see Noel continuously move players around the line up which probably adds to this confusion. You may be correct in how Noel wants to play but he clearly isn't able to effectively get his message across to these players and that is one of his primary duties as a coach.

I don't share your opinion with regards to players turning on the coach. I don't believe people should mindlessly follow systems or people that they don't believe in. If Noel hasn't won them over then that's a detriment to him more-so than them. Would you fully adhere to something that you didn't fully believe in?

Is this team perfect personnel vise, no but Chevy has locked the majority of them up. The roster has changed substantially over the last few years including the infusion of players from well run organizations yet the same problems still exist.

Some issues to think about:

Why is there a two-tiered accountability system? The vets get away with a lot yet the young players are always quickly moved down the roster.

You already touched on Pavs but same idea. He has continually defended his goalie in the media while throwing the rest of them under the bus. How do you think the rest of the team feels about this? I can completely understand if a lot of them aren't happy with the coach.


I feel despite how well his intentions might be or how good a system he may have, this team has done nothing but regress through his tenure here. If you don't believe have a look at Garrett's stats which paint the picture.

 

[Tintin's Ghost]

If the players choose to give up on Noel and tune him out...then we should all expect much more than just a simple coaching change...because player character has been misread on many fronts and that will be a much bigger and more difficult/painful situation to deal with for Chevy than coaching.

In my opinion, it is either expectations being the problem OR certain players are!?!? Very unfortunate if Noel pays the price for either of these reasons.

Be careful what you wish for (both "some" fans and some current players)...because motivation is not the problem...communication is not the problem...and systems are not the problem.

By all accounts, it is the motivation...the communication...and the system.

Noel doesn't have to get fired but he does need to toss out the blueprint he is using now and come up with a new plan. Perhaps one to compliment the skills he does have at his disposal. Kane, Bogo, LLW, Buff's moments of dominance. But nope, instead gotta hear about the skills he doesn't have and he does the best with what he's got. But reality shows that actually doesn't get the best results possible.

The coach needs to build his strategy around the strengths of the players. You have your central philosophy of how to win the game but you adapt to your player's strengths to best achieve the organizational goal. The players do not prefer to lose over winning. If they are taking different path to the goal then there are ways (subtle and overt) to bring them back to the road the rest of the team is taking. With noel, I see more of a guy who is trying to ram square pegs into circular holes and gets frustrated at the pegs. Like really! Rethink the friggin system already.

You say it's on the players but every thing we have seen so far suggests otherwise. Kane and Bogo espouse how much they desire to be in the playoffs. Perhaps they are lying but I doubt it. Ladd and Little seem like the archetypal Canadian boys next door doubt they are the problem. Toby is all in as much as his frame permits him. Buff maybe? He is a Cup winner but if he isn't the "stallion in the stable" like Noel referred to him as back in September 2011 then why not know that going into this year??

Calgary has a roster full of guys that many of us on this forum laughed at back in early September. And yet there they are, ahead of the Jets in the standings. The Avs too. They have centers but no D yet they crush the Jets when it comes to a transitional game even though, on power, they have no one back there who should be able to move it. Jets are not condemned because of who they have locked up long term, that is an asset for them to have that talent at those terms/rates. That asset is not being optimized by Noel.

 

[Ober]

I could just as easily point out a number of systemic flaws in the pp which is all on coaching.

For one overloading one pp unit with nothing but shooters and no passer comes to mind, but yeah its all the players fault for not being able to move the puck around. Failing to use your best forward passing option on the pp or when he was on the pp wasting his talents by having him sit in-front of the net screening the goalie while the person who should have been in-front of the net was acting as the pp qb. I can't fully blame the players when the scheme incorrectly utilizes them.

You made some good arguments and some good points...but re: the PP...I can't help but notice that you have not named who exactly our "best forward passing option" is?

Kane, Ladd, Wheeler, Setoguchi and Jokinen all handle the puck poorly...and the other teams pressure as soon as any of these guys touch it for that reason. Little is only marginally better.

Scheifele is probably the most natural skilled puck handler...but he is obviously still adjusting to the speed of this league.

My opinion is that we don't have anyone right now...and other teams know this as well...which is why you see all teams pressure the Jets PP...and it works!

Two years ago we had Stapleton and Wellwood...both of whom were comfortable with the puck. Last year it was only Wellwood. This year??

The players want to be magicians (when the other teams know they are not) to score pretty PP goals...while the coaches want them to direct the puck at the net along with bodies (when our players don't want to go there...or more precisely won't go there) for garbage goals...and what we end up with is a PP that does nothing.

Where does the fault lay?

 

[Jet]

What makes anybody think Huddy would make a good head coach? Isn't he the one responsible for our abysmal PK? What are you guys basing this on? Our guys basically back up in a shell and wait for the onslaught. No aggressiveness whatsoever. Interested to know why people think he would be a good HC?

Actually our PK is pretty good. With better goaltending I think it would even be better.

Last year we got in a big hole early and couldn`t dig ourselves out.

As for Huddy as HC? I'm in the camp with people who want someone established. I wouldn't be against him doing it on an interim basis and see how he does though.

 

[Sly Jets Fan]

Ok, I'm assuming that many folks here have jobs, or understand the concept of working for a living.

Let's imagine that you do what's expected of you at work. Why would you be fired for that?

The Jets, by consensus outside of the Jets forum, were not expected to make the playoffs. You could have made $4 on your $1 bet if you put your money on them to make the playoffs at the start of the season. So, the Jets are performing as expected.

When you get into work tomorrow, imagine YOUR surprise if you're fired for doing your job at a level of reasonable expectation.

This is ludicrous. I'm pretty sure the Jets ownership/management don't or didn't expect the team to finish at the bottom of the western conference.

The players are not 'doing as they're expected'. What, because some magazine picked them to finish last or second last? I had expectations to make the playoffs this year and apparently so did many other fans, hence the availability of tickets this year because people aren't in any hurry to pay a premium price for a team that is disappointing to watch so far.

If the team was 'doing as expected', Noel's hair wouldn't be turning greyer by the day and his face wouldn't be turning redder with anger behind the bench game by game.

 

[surixon]

You made some good arguments and some good points...but re: the PP...I can't help but notice that you have not named who exactly our "best forward passing option" is?

Kane, Ladd, Wheeler, Setoguchi and Jokinen all handle the puck poorly...and the other teams pressure as soon as any of these guys touch it for that reason. Little is only marginally better.

Scheifele is probably the most natural skilled puck handler...but he is obviously still adjusting to the speed of this league.

My opinion is that we don't have anyone right now...and other teams know this as well...which is why you see all teams pressure the Jets PP...and it works!

Two years ago we had Stapleton and Wellwood...both of whom were comfortable with the puck. Last year it was only Wellwood. This year??

The players want to be magicians (when the other teams know they are not) to score pretty PP goals...while the coaches want them to direct the puck at the net along with bodies (when our players don't want to go there...or more precisely won't go there) for garbage goals...and what we end up with is a PP that does nothing.

Where does the fault lay?

I see a lot of teams come up with creative pp solutions when roster talent is an issue. I don't see that creativity amongst our coaching staff here, the best they seem to do is put a forward on the point.

For the record I was talking about Scheifele who was a wizard from the half boards in junior and while the NHL is a few levels up I would have still thought the logical thing to do would have been to give him shot in that role. I'm not sure how the coaching staff came up with using him as a pp screen as that really isn't his game.

I'm not trying to say everything on the Jets is poorly coached for instance the pk is very well coached.

My biggest issue with Noel is that he cookie cutter players based on position. I.e. Wingers all have the same assignments, centers etc.. I don't have an issue with him playing the way he wants if he's able to adapt parts of his system to the players he has.

I going to use Scheifele's game against Chicago as an example of what I mean. Noel utilizes his center im a specific way: Defensively they all play closs to the net and are tasked with supporting the dmen. In Scheifele' case this leads to him usually neing the last forward out of the zone and as a reault he sees little of the puck in the NZ. In the offesive zone the centers tend stay high where they can either get to the net for a screen, support the wingers on the wall etc.. The main point is the play a supporting offensive role im Noel's syatem. This works extremely well for a center like Little who doesnt need to see a lot of the puck, but doesnt fit a guy like Scheifele who needs to get a lot of touches down low to have success.

Well what happened in third then? A lot of people seem to think Scheifele all of the sudden came alive In the third, but the reason for that was largely due to a coaching adjustment by Noel. What Noel did was he switched Scheifele and Frolik's defensive responsibilities so that Mark was up high covering the points and Frolik was down low covering the front of the net. The end result of this was that Mark handled the puck and spearheaded the attack through the NZ far more regularly. In the:

1

2 2

Mark predominantly plays In one of the number two slots but in the third he was placed In the 1 slot which pushed him forward offensively and allowed him to be more involved.

In the offensive zone he spent most of the team below the hash marks and behind the net which is where he needs to be as an offensive center and he generated a lot of chances against the best the in the league. So in essence nothing changed system wise but the utilization of the players within the system changed and the end result was positive.

That sums up my frustrations with Noel, he clearly is a smart guy that can come up with the right solutions within his system so that particular players can have success utilizing their skills, but he far too often pigeon holes his players into roles based on position and not skills. If he shows more of that creativity he may turn the team around but the clock is ticking.

 

[pcanuck]

If Noel is canned (hopefully soon; I said the 20th of Movember) and Huddy is interim for the remainder of the year - Chevy is no doubt as foolish as Noel and we can forget the playoffs this year and next.

We need a real coach who can make hard nosed decisions. Release, bench and bring up our young kids. Carbonneau comes to mind but there are others. If we hire from within or take the putts coach from the AHL, we're still on the same course and same direction (down).

 

[jamiebez]

Two things on this:

1. Pretty rare to see an assistant promoted to a permanent head coach on the same team. They are usually hired by another organization to be head coach. There's a reason for this: the assistants are usually the "good cops" who are the liaisons with the players. They're the nice guys. Consequently, if they get promoted, the players don't respond to them. Saw this here in Ottawa first-hand when they promoted John Paddock when Bryan Murray moved to full-time GM. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

At BEST, Huddy is an interim head coach, but as was said above, there's a reason he hasn't been a head coach. Don't know what it is, but he strikes me as better suited for an assistant's job.


2. If Noel is fired and an experienced guy (Laviolette!) is brought in, he's bringing his staff with him. Noel, Pearn, Vincent and Huddy will all be hitting the unemployment line at the same time.



Likeliest thing if they fire Noel in-season is they'll see if they can get a minor league coach from another organization.

 

[veganhunter]

Good coaches adjust their systems and styles to fit the pieces they have. They also put their players in
the best position to succeed. Quite simply I think Noel does the exact opposite far too frequently and when he make a smart adjustment (eg. Schiefele in the 3rd vs CHI) he reverts back and usually far too quickly.

He seems to have little trust in younger players (save for Trouba but lets be honest he isn't your typical young player by any means) and he gives an incredible amount of rope to veterans. He also has zero faith in his back up goalie for some reason.

As for Huddy I agree there is obviously some reason that he has been an assistant coach for 14 years and is never mentioned as a head coaching candidate.

 

[Positive]

If coaching staff is going to go, might as well make it the whole coaching staff, IMHO. Fresh start.

I still disagree with the 'Noel has an issue with young guys' thing though. He's shown a huge amount of trust in Kane, Bogosian, Trouba, and yes even Scheif. People read too much into the Burmi situation.

 

[surixon]

If coaching staff is going to go, might as well make it the whole coaching staff, IMHO. Fresh start.

I still disagree with the 'Noel has an issue with young guys' thing though. He's shown a huge amount of trust in Kane, Bogosian, Trouba, and yes even Scheif. People read too much into the Burmi situation.

I wouldn't say issues with young players specifically, but he hasn't exactly set Scheifele up to succeed offensively this year despite the minutes he's getting. We saw what Scheifele could do in the third last game when Noel pushed him forward, I will be watching tonight to see if that continues or if he's pushed back defensively again.

 

[Guardian17]

Back in the mid 2000's Daryl Sutter was both coach and GM of the Flames.

One day he decided he could not do both jobs and passed the coaching job to his assistant coach Jim Playfair.

Playfair's reign was unremarkable.

After he was let go, Playfair said it was very difficult to go from assistant coach to head coach for the same team.

Basically, the head coach is the "bad cop" and the assistant is the "good cop".

Its hard to play the "bad cop" when the players are used to you being the "good cop".

 

[umwoz]

I wouldn't mind it on an interim basis until the offseason when there's more candidates.

 

[Analyst365]

If Noel goes he needs to take Huddy as well.

Fixing a chip in the glass but leaving all the cracks makes no sense.

Based on that logic he should take 4/5 of the team with him too.

 

[veganhunter]

If coaching staff is going to go, might as well make it the whole coaching staff, IMHO. Fresh start.

I still disagree with the 'Noel has an issue with young guys' thing though. He's shown a huge amount of trust in Kane, Bogosian, Trouba, and yes even Scheif. People read too much into the Burmi situation.

I wouldn't say "issues" but man is he quick to bench the young guys after any mistake and conversely certain vets can do no wrong. Perhaps they play Noel's style and that is more important to him than actually being effective. It just confuses me at times.

 

[jammon90]

I don't mind Huddy, but I think they can do better. Arniel might be a good choice; he had a terrible stint with CBJ, but then again, they had NO talent whatsoever. Now he has coached under Tortorella and Vigneault- might have learned a trick or two. I am for Laviolette- think he was made the fall guy in PHI when the true problem was a poorly run organization.

So, my question is how long do they let them lose until they move in another direction? He seems frustrated, the team seems frustrated with his system- so when does the organization say "enough is enough"??