Player Discussion Charlie Coyle - Part Deux

[BradMarchandismydad]

I think he might benefit from a night in the press box.

It seems like he can't shake this slump, so he needs more external pressure IMO

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I think you hit the nail on the head when it comes to Coyle. He needs someone else on his wing who can carry the puck and make plays like he had with Mojo (and to a lesser degree Heinen).

Like Taylor Hall haha

 

[veganbruin]

I think it’s time we give Ritchie a night off and see what
DeBrusk-Kuraly-Coyle

looks like. Although IMO Frederic was the most noticeable bottom 6er.

 

[BruinDust]

I think it’s time we give Ritchie a night off and see what
DeBrusk-Kuraly-Coyle

looks like. Although IMO Frederic was the most noticeable bottom 6er.

What sort of message does it send when you scratch the guy whose 4th on your team in goals behind only your top line.

He has more goals than Debrusk has points. His goal total isn't even far off Coyle's entire point total.

Yet Ritchie is the one who needs to take a night off?

 

[Number8]

What sort of message does it send when you scratch the guy whose 4th on your team in goals behind only your top line.

He has more goals than Debrusk has points. His goal total isn't even far off Coyle's entire point total.

Yet Ritchie is the one who needs to take a night off?

I'm with you. I truly don't get it. Ritchie is not Connor McDavid, but why people want him to have the night off is beyond me. What has he not done that people wanted him to do this season?

I can easily think of five forwards that I'd sit (or would have until very recently) before Ritchie.

Up until a few games ago I'd have given Pasta a break. He's been fighting it, but seems to be coming out of it.
Up until a few games ago I'd give Coyle a break. To me (eye test) he's coming out of it as well. Possession game is better. Not where it was, but better.
Up until the trade deadline I'd have given Kuraly a month vacation. He's been much much better since CL20 came on board and a little competition entered the mix.
Chris Wagner? See Kuraly above.
DeBrusk? He's exactly where he needs to be for a few games. Like the kid a lot, but he is Off with a capital O. Doesn't matter the reason, he's not figuring it out on the ice so let's try some distance from game for a while.

Anyway, the point is what exactly do we gain by sitting Ritchie??????????

 

[BruinDust]

I'm with you. I truly don't get it. Ritchie is not Connor McDavid, but why people want him to have the night off is beyond me. What has he not done that people wanted him to do this season?

I can easily think of five forwards that I'd sit (or would have until very recently) before Ritchie.

Up until a few games ago I'd have given Pasta a break. He's been fighting it, but seems to be coming out of it.
Up until a few games ago I'd give Coyle a break. To me (eye test) he's coming out of it as well. Possession game is better. Not where it was, but better.
Up until the trade deadline I'd have given Kuraly a month vacation. He's been much much better since CL20 came on board and a little competition entered the mix.
Chris Wagner? See Kuraly above.
DeBrusk? He's exactly where he needs to be for a few games. Like the kid a lot, but he is Off with a capital O. Doesn't matter the reason, he's not figuring it out on the ice so let's try some distance from game for a while.

Anyway, the point is what exactly do we gain by sitting Ritchie??????????

Less goal-scoring. Less hitting. That's all I got.

Ritchie isn't the fastest guy but he's thick and moves well for his size now (unlike last summer when he was clearly 20 lbs over his playing weight and it showed). More importantly, he thinks the game fast enough and makes quick decisions with the puck. He knows he's not about to carry it 150 ft and dangle to score a goal. I think his skill level is really underrated around these parts. Diamond-cutters hands? No, but a nice set of mitts, especially for a big man.

He leads the forward group in hits. He's tied with Frederic with 3 fights apiece.

Honest to God I never thought I'd see the day when Bruins fans would be calling for their hits and fights leader to be made a healthy scratch, let alone when your hits and fights leader is also your 4th leading goal scorer.

 

[JOKER 192]

Like Taylor Hall haha

You joke but that's exactly what he needs.

 

[Kalus]

Less goal-scoring. Less hitting. That's all I got.

Ritchie isn't the fastest guy but he's thick and moves well for his size now (unlike last summer when he was clearly 20 lbs over his playing weight and it showed). More importantly, he thinks the game fast enough and makes quick decisions with the puck. He knows he's not about to carry it 150 ft and dangle to score a goal. I think his skill level is really underrated around these parts. Diamond-cutters hands? No, but a nice set of mitts, especially for a big man.

He leads the forward group in hits. He's tied with Frederic with 3 fights apiece.

Honest to God I never thought I'd see the day when Bruins fans would be calling for their hits and fights leader to be made a healthy scratch, let alone when your hits and fights leader is also your 4th leading goal scorer.

I like the way he is playing this year, keep him in the lineup, but to your point about his headiness and hands, its been a while since I have seen him make the right play at the goal line/in front of the net. Rushed weak shots, passing at the wrong times and innacurately etc. He was good in this area in the first 35 games or so, he can get back to it, hope he does. He would easily have another 3 or more goals by this point if was remained consistent in this area.

 

[arider1990]

I'm with you. I truly don't get it. Ritchie is not Connor McDavid, but why people want him to have the night off is beyond me. What has he not done that people wanted him to do this season?

I can easily think of five forwards that I'd sit (or would have until very recently) before Ritchie.

Up until a few games ago I'd have given Pasta a break. He's been fighting it, but seems to be coming out of it.
Up until a few games ago I'd give Coyle a break. To me (eye test) he's coming out of it as well. Possession game is better. Not where it was, but better.
Up until the trade deadline I'd have given Kuraly a month vacation. He's been much much better since CL20 came on board and a little competition entered the mix.
Chris Wagner? See Kuraly above.
DeBrusk? He's exactly where he needs to be for a few games. Like the kid a lot, but he is Off with a capital O. Doesn't matter the reason, he's not figuring it out on the ice so let's try some distance from game for a while.

Anyway, the point is what exactly do we gain by sitting Ritchie??????????

It's because he hasn't done much better as of late. Here is the stats for the above over the last 10 games without names and tell me which one deserves to sit.
Player A 10 GP 2-8-10 +9 4 PIM 31 SOG 7 Hits
Player B 10 GP 0-2-2 -3 4 PIM 15 SOG 10 Hits
Player C 9 GP 0-3-3 +2 4 PIM 22 SOG 4 Hits
Player D 10 GP 0-0-0 -2 5 PIM 15 SOG 18 Hits
Player E 10 GP 2-0-2 -1 11 PIM 20 SOG 17 Hits
Player F 10 GP 0-2-2 -2 8 PIM 20 SOG 18 Hits

 

[Number8]

It's because he hasn't done much better as of late. Here is the stats for the above over the last 10 games without names and tell me which one deserves to sit.
Player A 10 GP 2-8-10 +9 4 PIM 31 SOG 7 Hits
Player B 10 GP 0-2-2 -3 4 PIM 15 SOG 10 Hits
Player C 9 GP 0-3-3 +2 4 PIM 22 SOG 4 Hits
Player D 10 GP 0-0-0 -2 5 PIM 15 SOG 18 Hits
Player E 10 GP 2-0-2 -1 11 PIM 20 SOG 17 Hits
Player F 10 GP 0-2-2 -2 8 PIM 20 SOG 18 Hits

To be fair, I'm going to just respond without trying to figure out who is who.

Give me in order:
Player A
Player C/E
Player F
Player D
Player B

My guess is Ritchie doesn't fare so well here, but I bet he would look better if you took a 20 or so game slice (i.e. a quarter of a normal season).

The other factor (for me) is the eye test. I rely on it heavily myself when thinking about who is going and who is not.

p.s. Although Player C is higher ranked, 4 hits over 9 games is not good. Not good at all. Actually, difficult to do. Also, to be fair. Outside of Player A -- all of those stats are fairly unimpressive. The hitting for D, E, and F alone make them at least involved.

 

[arider1990]

To be fair, I'm going to just respond without trying to figure out who is who.

Give me in order:
Player A
Player C/E
Player F
Player D
Player B

My guess is Ritchie doesn't fare so well here, but I bet he would look better if you took a 20 or so game slice (i.e. a quarter of a normal season).

The other factor (for me) is the eye test. I rely on it heavily myself when thinking about who is going and who is not.

It goes this way
Pasta
Debrusk/Ritchie
Kuraly
Wagner
Coyle
I think my biggest issue is that Ritchie's effort has been as bad if not worse than Debrusks and should get a game upstairs.
Also this is Ritchie's stats for the 10 games prior.
10 GP 2-3-5 -1 7 PIM 29 SOG 24 Hits
It's better than the last 10 but not by much.

 

[Number8]

It goes this way
Pasta
Debrusk/Ritchie
Kuraly
Wagner
Coyle
I think my biggest issue is that Ritchie's effort has been as bad if not worse than Debrusks and should get a game upstairs.
Also this is Ritchie's stats for the 10 games prior.
10 GP 2-3-5 -1 7 PIM 29 SOG 24 Hits
It's better than the last 10 but not by much.

Interesting. I TOTALLY respect your view on Ritchie’s effort. I don’t see it that way, but that doesn’t mean my take is right. I think it’s really interesting to see how we all view different players — particularly when they are not going well.

Bottom line is that having the majority of these players going better during the playoffs would make us a much different team. Imagine a true three line attack. Looking at the personnel there is little reason it shouldn’t be possible.

Up to players and coaches to get it going right, I guess.

 

[RoccoF14]

The ONLY reason Coyle or Ritchie should be healthy scratches is to give them a night off to let them rest and recover.

Sitting them for any other reason would be silly.

 

[Wiggleboom]

Other than injuries, I think Coyle is the most important player in terms of whether the Bruins can compete for a Cup or not this year. Goalie is fine (Rask). D has been very impressive especially with Reilly and getting Carlo back will be huge. Amazing depth as well. Lines 1,2 and 4 are set and all can easily outperform the counterparts on the opposition.

Line 3 is a huge weakness right now and will get eaten alive in the playoffs if they stay like this. I think most of this is due to Coyle and his very disappointing, uninspired play. We know Ritchie can do well with good linemates. Debrusk may get better but I think would at least be average with a good centre. If Coyle can return to 2019 playoffs/2019-2020 form, the Bruins could then ice a team where all 4 lines are potentially better (or at least equal) than most other team’s 4 lines.

 

[Number8]

Sweet goal tonight Charlie C. Game has been better recently. Nice to see it go in.

 

[inactive user]

 

[BradMarchandismydad]

Coyle heard me talking crap...great goal. Hope to see more like that out of him!

 

[DKH]

Coyle heard me talking crap...great goal. Hope to see more like that out of him!

Haha I read that - we all been there

 

[Fenian24]

It goes this way
Pasta
Debrusk/Ritchie
Kuraly
Wagner
Coyle
I think my biggest issue is that Ritchie's effort has been as bad if not worse than Debrusks and should get a game upstairs.
Also this is Ritchie's stats for the 10 games prior.
10 GP 2-3-5 -1 7 PIM 29 SOG 24 Hits
It's better than the last 10 but not by much.

And if you prorate that over 80 games it's 16-24-40-56 with 196 hits. I'm pretty good with that in my middle 6. Bet 90% of the teams in the league would be as well.

 

[BruinDust]

And if you prorate that over 80 games it's 16-24-40-56 with 196 hits. I'm pretty good with that in my middle 6. Bet 90% of the teams in the league would be as well.

I looked back on the last full season (18-19) to see how many forwards had 35 points or more with a minimum 140 hits. This was the list:

Coleman
OV
Anderson
Wilson
Ferland
N.Foligno
B.Tkachuk
E.Kane
Kreider
Jenner
D.Brown
Getzlaf
Hornqvist
Benn

14 guys. That's it. Which tells me finding forwards who can post 35 points and 140 hits in 82 games is fairly difficult. Not many players to choose from, and hard and expensive to acquire in their prime years (24-29).

Meanwhile some want Ritchie benched, others want him exposed to Seattle, I think some just plain want him gone. If he was exposed to Seattle they would gladly take Ritchie for the trade value alone.

 

[arider1990]

And if you prorate that over 80 games it's 16-24-40-56 with 196 hits. I'm pretty good with that in my middle 6. Bet 90% of the teams in the league would be as well.

I looked back on the last full season (18-19) to see how many forwards had 35 points or more with a minimum 140 hits. This was the list:

Coleman
OV
Anderson
Wilson
Ferland
N.Foligno
B.Tkachuk
E.Kane
Kreider
Jenner
D.Brown
Getzlaf
Hornqvist
Benn

14 guys. That's it. Which tells me finding forwards who can post 35 points and 140 hits in 82 games is fairly difficult. Not many players to choose from, and hard and expensive to acquire in their prime years (24-29).

Meanwhile some want Ritchie benched, others want him exposed to Seattle, I think some just plain want him gone. If he was exposed to Seattle they would gladly take Ritchie for the trade value alone.

The problem is Ritchie hasn't been good as of late. In the last 10 games he has 2 points and 17 hits. In that time frame he is 4th among forwards on the team.

 

[BruinDust]

The problem is Ritchie hasn't been good as of late. In the last 10 games he has 2 points and 17 hits. In that time frame he is 4th among forwards on the team.

So his 17 hits in 10 games pretty much keeps him on his normal pace for about 140-150 hits over 82 games.

His production is down clearly. However, he's seen his ice-time drop since the TD and with Hall coming in, Ritchie's been bumped off a line with Krejci-Smith down with either struggling players (Coyle, Debrusk) or ineffective ones (Kuraly, Frederic).

That being said, he is unquestionably among the top 9 healthy forwards on this roster and should be in the line-up every game. I see zero justification for scratching Ritchie in favour of Wagner, or Frederic, or Kuraly, really any of the 4th liners or taxi squad scrubs.

 

[False Start]

The problem is Ritchie hasn't been good as of late. In the last 10 games he has 2 points and 17 hits. In that time frame he is 4th among forwards on the team.

I'm with you, I don't see the fascination with Ritchie.

I didn't like it when he was penciled into Krejci's LW. I wasn't sure what he did to deserve it but he did pop in a few PP goals early in the season.

He has moments where he lays the hammer on the opposing team. Moments where he fights and plays tough. Lots of moments where I can't complain about what he's doing.

The other times he's floating as bad as everyone else here complains about. He's not hitting, he's not scoring on the PP despite being on a unit with super stars. He chases the play because he isn't the best skater. Bruce sees this and demotes him to 4th line. He's done it more than once in the past two weeks.

So when this his overall play is inconsistent like this AND he's sort of lucked into a .45 pts/g if he's scoring half of his points on the PP, I don't see why he shouldn't get a night off.

Do teams fear him when he's forechecking? I'd say maybe sometimes, if he can skate fast enough to get there.

 

[RoccoF14]

Here's the link to the Nick Ritchie thread:

Player Discussion - Nick Ritchie III

 

[mjhfb]

Sweet goal tonight Charlie C. Game has been better recently. Nice to see it go in.

Great job to protect the puck and finish, but couldn't help but wonder if this was the start of turning things around, or just buying some more time.