Discussion in 'Soccer' started by Halladay, Apr 17, 2019.
You perfectly described yourself here.
Messi for Barcelona= Mario Lemieux
Messi for Argentina= Russ Courtnall
Never forget this and I really doubt it will change...
Except Messi continues to play incredibly for Argentina. He doesn't change.
Incredibly for sure, he has a good streak going of no goals in knockout games and what all great players did : making others around them better he certainly can't do that.
Russ Courtnall do your research.
Yeah, it took Alex Ferguson, what, 6-7 seasons to win his first league title with United and many consider him now amongst the best managers. Guardiola is still a couple of years younger than Ferguson was then, so it's indeed still early for him. As for Messi, while he and Barca still has time to win, early isn't really the right word regarding him.
When Alex Ferguson took over over at Manchester United, they were not the big club they were today. He had to use the academy and make shrewd signings. Pep on the other hand already had all the staff he wanted in key areas and unlimited funds.
Not many chances left for Messi, but he has Copa Americas (or should that be Copas Americas? Why do foreigners bother with speaking other languages when they could all speak English?) this year and next. And one of those is to be co-hosted by Argentina. Granted that in 2011 hosting the competition on their own didn't work out for them, but if 2020 is billed as Messi's last chance of glory it's possible events will take a turn for the 1978. (Not that I'd rule out nuclear levels of national hysteria provoking a bottle job for the ages, either).
So yes, it's early yet. Consider, who prior to the start of Euro 2016 would have predicted that Portugal would lift a 31-year old Ronaldo to new heights of receiving credit for victories in which his final contribution was manifestly peripheral?
Perhaps in the 2020 final Messi will miss four penalties, enjoy a pass completion rate of 8%, but lift the trophy thanks to an own goal that deflected off four different Bolivians on the way in (Bolivia having reached the final after every other team in the tournament's squad was riddled by a freak epidemic of cholera). And by adding an international trophy to his CV Messi will therefore dethrone Ronaldo as the Greatest Footballing Footballer in the History of Football or Any Other Sport. (As long as he plays no less than 26 minutes of the game, because in 2016 Ronaldo hobbled off after 25. And claps his hands while flouncing about the touchline and gurning more than Ronaldo did, so we can give him extra Out of Body Inspirational Leadership points).
I don't know how anyone can possibly argue that they aren't at least a bit disappointed with Pep's performance with Manchester City so far. In his 3 seasons as manager, the club has spent £547.28 million on new players with a net spend of £392.26 million, which is as much or more than any club in the world has spent over that time. In that time he has 1 league title, 2 league cups, and hasn't made it further than the CL quarter finals. He has a chance at another league cup, the FA cup, and another league title this season, which are all difficult to win of course. He definitely has had some success with Manchester City so far, but based on the money spent to build his stacked squad and the resources available to him, he's barely achieving beyond the minimum expectations at this point.
I think most people have already said, while he hasn't been a failure, he's been a disappointment since the real reason for bringing him in was to establish themselves in Europe. He hasn't even reached the heights of Pellegrini with City, yet.
I'm no Ronaldo fan either when it comes to his play for Portugal. Still he has done better for them than Messi for Argentina. On paper both are very good teams but not great either so it's comparable.
That's why those two can't compete with the great players of the past. Also they played their whole career for all-star teams and never changed the way the game was played or brought a new club to the top...
Anyway fanboys won't change their mind even though the facts are all there.
That's one version of history. Another is that when Alex Ferguson took over at Manchester United in November 1986 they held the record signing for a transfer between two English clubs (Bryan Robson at £1.5 million if you're playing along at home).
During Ferguson's first summer in charge he bid £2 million for Peter Beardsley (source: Alex Ferguson's autobiography), but United rejected the offer.
In 1988, after the £2 million-rated Paul Gascoigne had reneged on a verbal agreement to leave United for Old Trafford, Ferguson brought Mark Hughes back from Barcelona for a club record £1.8 million.
In 1989, Ferguson tried to buy Trevor Steven for £1.5 million, but the post-Hysel ban on English clubs worked against him, and Steven chose Glasgow. Ferguson was so distraught he spent the £1.5 million on Neil Webb instead. For good measure, he broke the English record fee for a defender by paying £2.3 million for Gary Pallister, then bought another midfielder, Paul Ince, for £1.7 million.
Indeed, at this stage the Red Devils' most highly-rated young player was Lee Sharpe, developed at Torquay but brought in for £150,000.
A different game indeed.
I honestly don't know who to pull for in that Ajax x Spurs matchup. Love both Lucas and David Neres so much it's tough to decide. All I know is that one of them must win it all.
Yeah, Man Utd clearly were the biggest spenders in English football at that time, both in transfers and in salary. Although Serie a was still beyond that (and an additional Maradona transfer to Spain also added), but during those pre-Bosman days Ferguson had resources beyond pretty much any other club and still failed to deliver for so many years.
This says it all. Looks like Allegri might have lost the dressing room.
Yeah, first it was all down to Xavi and Iniesta and now that they're gone it's some other bull**** story. If it weren't so stupid it might actually be funny considering Messi had a hand in all four goals against Man Utd and it's yet to be mentioned here.
Like I said, comic relief they weren't so stupid.
Let me be clear, City's definitely been spending and even the net figure is no small sum. However the average net spend per season is what I would call "normal" for a big club.
As for the current squad and some of the players you mentioned, Mahrez isn't an atypical "Guardiola buy" assuming you can attribute his signing to the manager. A proven player in the domestic league who is a proven winner and who has some good experience. Of course they could have done better, but I would say that about a lot of their signings if continental success is your aim. I agree about Aguero, but for me you can go another season at least before addressing position. The only potential problem with that is that you might miss out on a player who is going to move this Summer. The rest of the positions can be addressed on signing per position per season. You just have to eliminate the buys like Laporte where you're shelling out that much on a player who really isn't that great to begin with. (So glad we never signed him as I always said).
I also agree that a signature win in the knockout stages would do them a World of good. I still would say they're unlucky at worst to not be in the Semifinals this year. Had they progressed they'd still be without that signature win, but reaching the Semifinal would be a nice progression. Another point I want to be clear on as well is that City's CL results regardless of their domestic results should factored in when holding Guardiola accountable. He has an expensive squad and a certain level of success should be expected. However unlike the experts on this forum I don't think he should be held accountable yet. And even if that day comes who else are they going to bring in who will do a better job? Despite that being a rhetorical question, I'll answer it to save reading some wrong answers. Nobody.
Probably because they're smart enough to wait until the third season is over before mentioning what he's won.
It doesn't really matter what he wins this season from what is left to win. Manchester City brought him in to bring success and legitimacy to the club in Europe and gave him the budget to do it, and he has so far not done much better than Pellegrini did with a worse team.
It 100% does matter what he wins this season from what is left. A domestic treble would be fantastic and the league alone would be big. And I already noted that his CL campaign should be considered when holding him accountable, but the league alone is still very important.
Maybe I’m just missing it but I don’t see what the problem is.
What a curious reverse of fortune that we went from Liverpool enjoying that incredible run of sustained successes and Manchester United's inability to win the league being a standing joke, to the opposite with scarcely a pause for breath.
And that the pendulum's subsequent swing has Manchester United looking intent on perpetrating an expensive remake of the seventies (albeit that in this day and age a hilarious relegation is simply impossible).
Ronaldo made a gesture "We **** ourselves"
Bernardeschi says "Do you blame him?" in reference to Ronaldo's gesture. He goes on to say " Who gives us that mentality, no drive, no motivation, and no gameplan"
Separate names with a comma.