GWT: Champions League Final: Real Madrid vs. Atletico Madrid

[Evilo]

So french media pumping ZZ's fantastic prowess, while looking elsewhere when everyone can talk about his poor coaching.
Ronaldo saying he "had a vision" of him scoring the winner.

Well he asked to be 5th shooter ONCE AGAIN, even if it backfired a few years ago.

Looks like I chose the right final to skip

 

[Vasilevskiy]

And the penalty awarded to AM wasn't a penalty.
Torres made the foul not Pepe

Not the refs fault if Grizz missed it

I will believe that you are trolling.
Either that or you have never played soccer.

It was a penalty as clear as water, if Torres is smarter than Pepe these things tend to happen. Should have been a yellow to Pepe too.

 

[Power Man]

I will believe that you are trolling.
Either that or you have never played soccer.

It was a penalty as clear as water, if Torres is smarter than Pepe these things tend to happen. Should have been a yellow to Pepe too.

Nope Torres fouled Pepe

It was obvious and even all 3 commentators of Bein Sport France agreed.
1 of them played football and the other is pro-barcelona.

 

[Power Man]

So french media pumping ZZ's fantastic prowess, while looking elsewhere when everyone can talk about his poor coaching.
Ronaldo saying he "had a vision" of him scoring the winner.

Well he asked to be 5th shooter ONCE AGAIN, even if it backfired a few years ago.

Looks like I chose the right final to skip

ZZ is not perfect but he is a rookie head coach and turned the season around.
He deserves the praise

 

[Pouchkine]

Offside goal, fake penalty, no red card for Ramos= 3 Major Errors. With both teams being fairly lacklustre it made for one boring final.

 

[Halladay]

The offsides goal was the only wrong call. Was a penalty and wasnt a red card.

 

[Power Man]

The offsides goal was the only wrong call. Was a penalty and wasnt a red card.

Was not a penalty

 

[Halladay]

Was not a penalty

yes it was, and Pepe gets no benefit of the doubt here.

 

[Power Man]

yes it was, and Pepe gets no benefit of the doubt here.

No it wasn't

Get new prescription glasses

 

[Sykie]

The offsides goal was the only wrong call. Was a penalty and wasnt a red card.

Dude, Atletico was going for a 3 vs 1 and Ramos did a huge tackle from behind to brutally take down Carrasco before he could play the ball. Ramos didn't even care to play the ball, he perfectly knew he had to stop Carrasco at all costs or his team would get crucified at the very last minute of the game.

Watch replay here. Definition from the rule-book : "Disciplinary sanctions: if a player plays in a dangerous manner in a “normal†challenge, the referee should not take any disciplinary action, if the action is made with obvious risk of injury the referee should caution the player, if a player denies an obvious goal-scoring opportunity playing in a dangerous manner the referee should send off the player

This tackle from Ramos is the definition of a red card and it should really not be arguable here.

On the other hand I agree it was penalty for Atletico. Pepe tackled Torres from behind, I don't see how it could be discussed also. Not that it matters since Griezman missed the opportunity.

But still, between the offside and the forgotten red-card, Atletico was stolen.

 

[YNWA14]

This coming from the guy who follows me (and others quite frankly) around the forum because he's still ******** years after being shown he's wrong. Not to mention you're getting personal, again.

And what exactly am I not informed about? Pray tell. The only thing I've commented on is the Ramos goal being offside. That's a fact. Are you saying he wasn't offside?

So just to be clear you don't actually have a base for hat you were saying when responding pertaining to the topic of this CL.

You respond to me first in pretty much every topic yet I'm following you/others around? Interesting chain of logic my friend. It seems almost everything is backwards to you.

 

[Evilo]

Seeing the replay and context of the match (end of the game, in a tied game), that's a definite red card for me.
THAT said, I have no problem seeing the ref give out a yellow. Not giving anything would have been a mistake, here it's a judgment call, and a tough one.

 

[les Habs]

So just to be clear you don't actually have a base for hat you were saying when responding pertaining to the topic of this CL.

You respond to me first in pretty much every topic yet I'm following you/others around? Interesting chain of logic my friend. It seems almost everything is backwards to you.

So once again you failed to answer the questions. I'll ask you clear questions and see if you can actually answer them or avoid them altogether yet again.

No, actually I don't. I could seeing as you make ridiculous claims and posts with great regularity, however much of it doesn't interest me quite frankly it'd be a waste of my time. As regards this instance, let's have a look at what you posted:

The hate is strong against RM. Yet there they are holding the Champion's League trophy once again.

I wonder if Pep will ever make another final.

For starters, where are the haters before you made that post? There are few if any "hater" posts before that. On top of that, what on earth does Pep have to do with it at all? Where a line like that could possibly come from based on this thread or anything else is beyond me. The equivalent of that would be me posting in the FA Cup thread a week ago or so and asking if Liverpool will ever make another final.

As to those questions, let's see if you can answer them:

1) Was Ramos' goal offside?

2) You said you don't think I'm nearly as informed as I think I come off as. Give me some examples of where I've posted where I think I'm "coming off" as informed? And BTW, that has got to be one of the most laughable comments I've ever read on this forum considering the source.

3) What am saying as regards this match that I don't have a base for?

 

[Pouchkine]

That was clearly a red card just for the reckless and dangerous tackle alone. And it was NEVER a penalty. Torres did the first foul on that play and it was a classic stupid make up call for the offside goal, I guarantee you he would never have given a penalty there otherwise.

And i'm not speaking as a biased fan or as a commentator who doesn't really know the rules.

Offside Goal + Fake Penalty + Red Card not given = 3 major errors.

All around I guess it went with the game which was low quality for a big final.

 

[Power Man]

Cruyff delivering the goods

 

[Sykie]

The (clear) fault of Pepe on Torres : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4d9q7f

Torres protects the ball, Pepe clearly comes from behind and tackle Torres with his right leg. Could actually have even been dangerous for Torres.

Call it stupid if you want, but there is a fault. Again, not that it matters since Atletico was robbed anyway in that game because of the offside/red card fiasco.

 

[maclean]

The (clear) fault of Pepe on Torres : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4d9q7f

Torres protects the ball, Pepe clearly comes from behind and tackle Torres with his right leg. Could actually have even been dangerous for Torres.

Call it stupid if you want, but there is a fault. Again, not that it matters since Atletico was robbed anyway in that game because of the offside/red card fiasco.

Wellll, to be completely objective it's quite hard to tell what Torres's intentions were and how genuine his reaction is. I'm not saying the ref made a bad decision, but "Torres protects the ball, Pepe tackles from behind" is exaggerating. Torres and Pepe were going for the same ball, Torres happened to get his foot there first, then both put on a bit of a show, is probably a more neutral reading.

 

[maclean]

Cruyff delivering the goods

hasn't been a good football game in the last 30 years so i don't know what he was expecting

 

[Sykie]

Wellll, to be completely objective it's quite hard to tell what Torres's intentions were and how genuine his reaction is. I'm not saying the ref made a bad decision, but "Torres protects the ball, Pepe tackles from behind" is exaggerating. Torres and Pepe were going for the same ball, Torres happened to get his foot there first, then both put on a bit of a show, is probably a more neutral reading.

If that's your neutral reading, I question your neutrality then. Sorry but that the problem of the defenseman if Torres "happens" to be on the ball first. Pepe is late, and CLEARLY tackles Torres from behind. It's not like it's a little touch, we can clearly see the right foot of Pepe pushing on Torres ankle here.

Sure you could argue Torres embellishes or not. Like every soccer player really. But fault there is, still. You know, there are soooo many fake penalties in soccer. But this one is really not one of them.

Bottom line, there were two majors mistakes in that game : the offside goal and the obvious red card which has not been given to Ramos. But at least we can give to the referee that he had a fairly good reading of the game on that particular action, it's Pepe problem if he was late and completely failed his intervention, not the referee's.

 

[maclean]

I despise Real and am sickened that they won the CL, so I suppose I'm not entirely neutral, no. And like I said, I'm not saying the referee made a mistake in calling that, I'm just saying, from an objective perspective I think Torres knew exactly what he was doing. He's within his rights to call foul on that but I also think he stuck his foot there knowing/hoping it would get stomped on and he'd be able to chuck himself on the ground in the opposite direction. That's unfortunately part of football and I don't really think I'm even disagreeing with you.

But to blame the result of that game on the referee, that I don't agree on. The result of that game can be blamed on two teams playing like they didn't even deserve to be there.

 

[hatterson]

How in the world *isn't* that a penalty?

Torres going for/protecting the ball and gets in front of Pepe, who tackles him.

As far as the Ramos potential red. I said it shortly after it happened, I think Clattenburg got the call right. If the foul occurred anywhere else on the field, or with 5 RM players back on defense, red wouldn't even be a discussion. He didn't go in high, didn't go at him with his studs, and based on how Carrasco was moving to his left the tackle was actually from the side and not from behind.

I don't think the situation warranted a denial of a goal scoring opportunity red because he wasn't the last man and RM had multiple players tracking back. Yes, it would have been a great chance for Atleti, but goal scoring opportunity reds are virtually never given at midfield unless the defender has no one covering him.

Super cynical foul, 100% deserving of the yellow (both for the foul itself and for stopping the breakout), but not worthy of a straight red.

 

[Power Man]

He initiated the contact by stretching his leg out in font of Pepe and creating momentum.

 

[Sykie]

How in the world *isn't* that a penalty?

Torres going for/protecting the ball and gets in front of Pepe, who tackles him.

As far as the Ramos potential red. I said it shortly after it happened, I think Clattenburg got the call right.

That's really cool, but you were wrong. The red card is just as obvious as the penalty actually.

Just look at the replay I've put previously. If Ramos didn't cut Carrasco legs here, that's a 3 on 1 at the very last minute, and probably the end of the game. Ramos was beaten, he didn't even try to play the ball, he just went all-in to violently cut Carrasco before he could play the ball for what should have been a decisive goal. It's not like it was a little fault either, that was a violent tackle from behind because basically, that's all Ramos could do to stop the goal.

Rule book : if a player denies an obvious goal-scoring opportunity playing in a dangerous manner the referee should send off the player.

Obvious goal-scoring opportunity, 3 on 1 and probably the game winner. Check.
Obvious dangerous manner, extremely violent tackle from behind. Check.

This should not even be a discussion. Ramos should have been taken out by the referee.

 

[hatterson]

When is the last time you saw a goal scoring opportunity red given at midfield when a player wasn't the last man back?

 

[Sykie]

When is the last time you saw a goal scoring opportunity red given at midfield when a player wasn't the last man back?

That's not relevant. I've seen red cards all over the field for much less than that. If the decision to put a red card should only depends about where the fault was done on the field, well that's fantastic because you could basically murder the opponent goalie, since hey, that was not done in your surface either.

It's really not about that. 3 guys rushing against 1 defensman is a huge goal-scoring opportunity. The fact the fault was done closer to the middle of the field is irrelevant in that context. Besides, and quite frankly, the violence of this tackle from behind could justify a red card alone, it's not like it was a little tactical fault, we are talking about a violent tackle from behind without any intention to play the ball. By itself it could already be subject to a red card, the fact that it was done to prevent such an obvious scoring opportunity that would give the cup to Atletico should make that decision to be an absolute no-brainer.

I mean, you just have to read the rules. They are very clear. It was a dangerous opportunity stopped by a dangerous fault. That is the exact definition of a red card.