Chalk Talk thread/schemes.

[Gene Parmesan]

4 verts is still effective. Just don't run it on 3rd and long when it's obvious you have to throw past the sticks. Linehan has never heard of creating conflict in the secondary. McVay, Shanahan, Reid, Pedersen and Payton all do this. It's why there will always be someone open. They make you defend the whole field. I agree about Dak. He's been set up to fail.

 

[Troy McClure]

Another Linehan gripe has been his use of the TEs. Those who watch these things closely are saying the Cowboys are still using all of the Witten routes with these terrible TEs. It shouldn't be a surprise that Dak isn't seeing his TE open when these TEs don't have the smarts and ability to turn these routes into opportunities.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Yeah they might have the worst group of receivers/tight ends in the league.

 

[rangerssharks414]

Yeah they might have the worst group of receivers/tight ends in the league.

I honestly don't think it's all that close.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

The 49ers have hit this 3/4 times with one td (Joosecheck) and the miss was Kittle's dropped td in week 1. It's such a devastating concept against cover 1 or 3. The motion allows the offense to reset the match up game. Also Chris Brown is the best follow for x's and o's.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

4 verts is still effective. Just don't run it on 3rd and long when it's obvious you have to throw past the sticks. Linehan has never heard of creating conflict in the secondary. McVay, Shanahan, Reid, Pedersen and Payton all do this. It's why there will always be someone open. They make you defend the whole field. I agree about Dak. He's been set up to fail.

As i was saying

Create conflict.

 

[Roboturner913]

I'd be far more interested in the success of all vertical sets as it applies to offenses with a proficiency in back shoulder throws in particular, or more generally just continuity between QB/WR from year to year. It's one of those things where the success or failure can depend on pretty subtle factors. Timing, chemistry, etc. The Saints from say 08 to 13 used that almost as their default passing set but basically abandoned it when the personnel changed. It just didn't work anymore. It seems like the same is true of the Packers offense the last couple of years too.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

The Packers offense has basically devolved into "Ok A-Rod just scramble around and make a play".

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Kyle Shanahan going back to college with this play. Chris Ault and Mike Gundy would be proud.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

The Minnesota Vikings Have a Play-Action Problem - Optimum Scouting

Good info on the struggles in Minnesota.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Good insight into how running backs leave yards on the field. It's not always on the O-line. This is also one of the things about Barkley I didn't like. He doesn't have the vision that elite backs possess.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

How Baker Mayfield, Patrick Mahomes II, and the Eagles Won the NFL’s Scheme War

Death to the term "pro style"!

 

[Babe Ruth]

How Baker Mayfield, Patrick Mahomes II, and the Eagles Won the NFL’s Scheme War

Death to the term "pro style"!

Gene, I've been reading this article for 30 years.. the desired death of the cerebral pocket passer.
Randall Cunningham was gonna win multiple Lombardis, then Mike Vick, then Kap, then R.G.Knee, Johnny Football , now after a handful of games- Mahomes is going/hoped to be Tom Brady 2.0.

One thing I do believe the columnist has right... Lower levels of football are taking over the NFL. He also has it correct that there are few heir-apparents to passers like the Manning Bros. But I don't think it has to do with their failures on the field.. it has to do with the will full effort to displace & replace them. With a sports media (& drunken fans) that drool(ed) over R.G.Knee & Kap.. the pocket passer will be replaced, even tho they are (& will) keep winning Super Bowls on their way to extinction.. Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, Manning Bros, Joe Flacco (very obvious target as he's replaced by Jackson).. Rest in peace. Welcome in the age of the Navy style pro QB, coupled with friendly defenses that can't harm the QBs. It'll eventually be high school football Fridays, Saturdays, & Sundays.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Gene, I've been reading this article for 30 years.. the desired death of the cerebral pocket passer.
Randall Cunningham was gonna win multiple Lombardis, then Mike Vick, then Kap, then R.G.Knee, Johnny Football , now after a handful of games- Mahomes is going/hoped to be Tom Brady 2.0.

One thing I do believe the columnist has right... Lower levels of football are taking over the NFL. He also has it correct that there are few heir-apparents to passers like the Manning Bros. But I don't think it has to do with their failures on the field.. it has to do with the will full effort to displace & replace them. With a sports media (& drunken fans) that drool(ed) over R.G.Knee & Kap.. the pocket passer will be replaced, even tho they are (& will) keep winning Super Bowls on their way to extinction.. Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, Manning Bros, Joe Flacco (very obvious target as he's replaced by Jackson).. Rest in peace. Welcome in the age of the Navy style pro QB, coupled with friendly defenses that can't harm the QBs. It'll eventually be high school football Fridays, Saturdays, & Sundays.

So you didn't read the article at all.

 

[Babe Ruth]

So you didn't read the article at all.

Read it from start to finish.. the spirit is: farewell pocket passer. Same spirit in why you posted it..

If u want, I'll even quote the parts where it's admitted they're returning to simplistic high school (& literally quoted as Jr high) football..

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Read it from start to finish.. the spirit is: farewell pocket passer. Same spirit in why you posted it..

It's not farewell pocket passer so you're wrong and obviously didn't read it. It's farewell to archaic offensive systems, which is why it's in this thread. It has very little to do with quarterbacks and whatever tag you want to apply. You know you can be athletic and excel in the pocket right?

 

[Babe Ruth]

It's not farewell pocket passer so you're wrong and obviously didn't read it. It's farewell to archaic offensive systems, which is why it's in this thread. It has very little to do with quarterbacks and whatever tag you want to apply. You know you can be athletic and excel in the pocket right?

Since you're gonna patronize me, saying I'm wrong bcuz I disagree with u, instead of us just disagreeing on interpretation. I'll take that same disrespectful approach.
You're clueless if u can't see the agenda in the NFL. A pocket passing Super Bowl champ like Flacco being replaced by Jackson. It encapsulates the endgame. A franchise that won a championship behind a big arm pocket passer, suddenly going in a completely different direction that has had no (yet) proven success for Baltimore, with a so called dual-threat. Mahomes being fawned over after a handful of wins. How can u be blind to the fan adulation that's underwriting the unnecessary & unsuccessful eradication of pocket passing (?)

Stupid fans are demanding a stupid game.. specifically in this case a stupid passing game.. or like the euphemism in the article 'simplified' game. Address content.. where are the celebrated game changers.. R.G. Knee, Kap, Johnny Football. What happened to all the Subway, Gatorade, & Pistachio endorsements that were quickly gifted them.. while a beleaguered pocket passer like Foles remained invisible or hyper-criticized until he won a Super Bowl.

 

[Ivan13]

I find it puzzling why someone who is advocating a good pocket passer hangs his hat on a below average QB like Flacco and lumps in Eli with Peyton.

As for the stupid fans remark, I guess Bill B is dumb as well given he is one of the pioneers of this movement in the NFL. The gist of the article was to highlight how by expanding the playbook and allowing for more schemes the offenses are becoming harder to stop, and not to suggest that the NFL coaches are dumbing down their playbooks.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

I mean, that article has literally nothing to do with death to the pocket passer so I have no idea what that dude is talking about.

It was all about offensive schemes, and using quarterbacks in the most efficient way possible. Recognizing that there is more than one way to play the game and accepting innovative concepts.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I find it puzzling why someone who is advocating a good pocket passer hangs his hat on a below average QB like Flacco and lumps in Eli with Peyton.

As for the stupid fans remark, I guess Bill B is dumb as well given he is one of the pioneers of this movement in the NFL. The gist of the article was to highlight how by expanding the playbook and allowing for more schemes the offenses are becoming harder to stop, and not to suggest that the NFL coaches are dumbing down their playbooks.

Plus making things easier for your quarterback and offense is a f***ing good thing. It'd blow the posters mind if they knew that most defensive schemes/coverages are one word play calls.

Plus Belicheck and McDaniel's offense took off after studying with Chip Kelly and Dan Mullen in the off-season. They played 2007 strictly from the shotgun and hardly huddled unless to situation called for it.

 

[Troy McClure]

The Patriots have been playing something close to the spread for years now. It’s actually a great scheme for a pocket passer who makes quick reads and delivers accurate throws. Look at Baker Mayfield. He put up gargantuan college numbers, and he wasn’t running all over the place.

Can’t help but wonder how many QBs were ruined or wasted over the past decade by coaches trying to force them in to overly complex systems that entirely avoided what they did well in college.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

The Patriots have been playing something close to the spread for years now. It’s actually a great scheme for a pocket passer who makes quick reads and delivers accurate throws. Look at Baker Mayfield. He put up gargantuan college numbers, and he wasn’t running all over the place.

Can’t help but wonder how many QBs were ruined or wasted over the past decade by coaches trying to force them in to overly complex systems that entirely avoided what they did well in college.

Jared Goff would have been one of them if the Rams didn't take a chance on McVay. Alex Smith was nearly ruined until Harbaugh came. In college there are a few. One is D.J. Shockley. Dude had an elite physical skillset that Georgia never took advantage of.

 

[InjuredChoker]

hopefully, that most likely won't happen to rosen as mcCoy probably won't have job as OC beyond this season.. that final playcall against seahawks was as stupid as it gets.

of course, keim and wilks (who seems like a dinosaur) would need to hire a right guy.

to not make this too OT

 

[Gene Parmesan]

It's true. Nearly every team plays a version of cover 3/single high. Either as a base or sub package. Like every defensive scheme there are holes. Those route concepts looked like "switch" or "rattler" routes, not four verts.

 

[Roboturner913]

Since you're gonna patronize me, saying I'm wrong bcuz I disagree with u, instead of us just disagreeing on interpretation. I'll take that same disrespectful approach.
You're clueless if u can't see the agenda in the NFL. A pocket passing Super Bowl champ like Flacco being replaced by Jackson. It encapsulates the endgame. A franchise that won a championship behind a big arm pocket passer, suddenly going in a completely different direction that has had no (yet) proven success for Baltimore, with a so called dual-threat. Mahomes being fawned over after a handful of wins. How can u be blind to the fan adulation that's underwriting the unnecessary & unsuccessful eradication of pocket passing (?)

Stupid fans are demanding a stupid game.. specifically in this case a stupid passing game.. or like the euphemism in the article 'simplified' game. Address content.. where are the celebrated game changers.. R.G. Knee, Kap, Johnny Football. What happened to all the Subway, Gatorade, & Pistachio endorsements that were quickly gifted them.. while a beleaguered pocket passer like Foles remained invisible or hyper-criticized until he won a Super Bowl.

Look at what Sean Payton is doing with Taysom Hill. Is he running a "stupid offense?" No of course not. It's probably the most sophisticated offense of the past 3 decades - but yet, Taysom's skills add to it. Why does he keep putting Hill out there more and more every week? Because teams have no clue what to do when he's on the field.

The NFL doesn't have some overarching agenda. This isn't some big conspiracy. Coaches are just always trying to get an edge. Right now they perceived that edge as having a running game from the QB. Because the truth is, unless you have an elite quarterback, it's a lot harder to win these days one-dimensional pocket passer. You can attribute that to the explosion of incredibles athletes that now play defensive line, or increasing sophistication of pass coverages, or my personal thought that wide receivers these days are freaking terrible and most of them can't run a correct route to save their lives, but either way it's definitely not because the NFL has some collective shadowy agenda to put a running QB on every team in the league.