Player Discussion Thomas Chabot (D) Extended 8 years 8M AAV

[stempniaksen]

DJ has to think about DJ first and foremost. If he wants to keep working in the NHL and establish himself as a legitimate head coach he needs as many wins as he can get.

Maybe "job" was not the right word. How about this: new head coaches are heavily incentivised to win as many games as they can so that they keep working as HCs. Eventually he will leave Ottawa and he needs as good a track record as possible to get another HC job.

That being said, he's definitely taking it too far by playing Chabot so much. My point is more that is Dorion's "problem" because he is the manager, Dorion needs to either:

- Tell him to play Chabot less which is a big no-no in terms of etiquette
- Give DJ better players which the better option

Everybody on the bench wants to win. It isn't their job to manage the roster, that's the GM's job.

I'm not in full disagreement here, that's obviously how things work for "normal" franchises trying to win games, I just think that part of what PD should be evaluating DJ on is his ability to develop the kids and in some cases (Chabot playing way too much being one of them) he's ultimately failing.

The best way for DJS to ensure he'll have more opportunities once he moves on from the Sens (or they move on fro him) is to pile up wins. The best way for DJS to ensure he remains HC of the Ottawa Senators is to put just as much emphasis on development as he does on wins, at least in the short term. It's certainly more of a Dorion problem, but that doesn't mean it's not (at least partially) a DJ Smith problem too.

 

[Alfie11]

I'm not in full disagreement here, that's obviously how things work for "normal" franchises trying to win games, I just think that part of what PD should be evaluating DJ on is his ability to develop the kids and in some cases (Chabot playing way too much being one of them) he's ultimately failing.

The best way for DJS to ensure he'll have more opportunities once he moves on from the Sens (or they move on fro him) is to pile up wins. The best way for DJS to ensure he remains HC of the Ottawa Senators is to put just as much emphasis on development as he does on wins, at least in the short term. It's certainly more of a Dorion problem, but that doesn't mean it's not (at least partially) a DJ Smith problem too.

That's the theory but the reality of coaching in the NHL is that you get fired when you don't win. So I totally get why the coach leans on what little NHL quality players he has left.

 

[stempniaksen]

That's the theory but the reality of coaching in the NHL is that you get fired when you don't win. So I totally get why the coach leans on what little NHL quality players he has left.

My whole point is that this is one of the rare examples where wins =/= job security. I mean they might, I don't know what goes through EM and PD's heads, but given this is kind of a "tank" year by design and the organization has constantly talked about development and growth over winning (in the short term anyways) that it would be surprising if they were using wins and losses as some kind of a barometer of success.

99.9% of the time your line of thinking is correct, I just think this is a unique scenario and DJ needs to start prioritizing development down the stretch. There will be plenty of time for him to overplay the vets when winning actually matters (could be as soon as next season).

 

[Larionov]

Not sure how many of you played competitively, but if you did you'll know that Chabot's ice time is not a big concern. Players love to play, and big time players especially thrive off plenty of ice time. Every elite defenceman in history logged tons of ice time - guys like Pronger and Niedermayer used to routinely log about 30 minutes a night or so, just as Chabot is doing now. Why should he be any different?

 

[GCK]

Not sure how many of you played competitively, but if you did you'll know that Chabot's ice time is not a big concern. Players love to play, and big time players especially thrive off plenty of ice time. Every elite defenceman in history logged tons of ice time - guys like Pronger and Niedermayer used to routinely log about 30 minutes a night or so, just as Chabot is doing now. Why should he be any different?

My only concern is watching the team when he is not on the ice.

 

[BondraTime]

Not sure how many of you played competitively, but if you did you'll know that Chabot's ice time is not a big concern. Players love to play, and big time players especially thrive off plenty of ice time. Every elite defenceman in history logged tons of ice time - guys like Pronger and Niedermayer used to routinely log about 30 minutes a night or so, just as Chabot is doing now. Why should he be any different?

I played competitive, and that's definitely not true.

The highest time on ice per game since 2005 is 27:00, Scott Neidermeyer in 06-07

Chabot has the 2nd most in a single game since 05' with 37:50 this season, and this season is leading the league with 25:50 per game. He's already playing too many minutes right now, giving him an added 5-6 minutes a game is not smart. He has 2 more minutes per game at even strength than the next closest guy.

There is nothing routine with logging 30 minutes a night

 

[Sting]

I think 27-30 minutes a night wouldn't be as big a deal if we had a good team up front. You expend so much more energy defending in your own zone vs the offensive zone. The reality is those are hard minutes he's playing. It'd be different if he was logging that and we had the Sens teams from the mid 2000's playing in front of him.

 

[stempniaksen]

I think 27-30 minutes a night wouldn't be as big a deal if we had a good team up front. You expend so much more energy defending in your own zone vs the offensive zone. The reality is those are hard minutes he's playing. It'd be different if he was logging that and we had the Sens teams from the mid 2000's playing in front of him.

It makes a difference that he's the one driving the offence, often single handedly, when he's out there as well. He's trying to do too much out there because he has to, but that's not helping him conserve the necessary energy to play top minutes in the league.

 

[OD99]

Meh...he had a stretch where he logged a ton of minutes and then it went back down and now he is playing a lot again to finish the season.

I don't see any long term effects of this being damaging to him. He is young and skates effortlessly, if anything it is speeding up his development.

Total non issue for me at the moment.

 

[Sting]

It makes a difference that he's the one driving the offence, often single handedly, when he's out there as well. He's trying to do too much out there because he has to, but that's not helping him conserve the necessary energy to play top minutes in the league.

Yes, that's also true. It's not enough that he's playing the majority of those minutes in his own zone...but when it comes out of our blue line, more often than not it's Chabot leading the rush.

 

[Micklebot]

This still seems crazy considering as a team we are not exactly a puck control team. I guess it helps when you have ~150 more 5v5 icetime than the next closest defender,

 

[JungleBeat]

Premature wear and tear, he’s going to be here for the next eight years. Why’s DJ running him to the ground?

 

[Sweatred]

Premature wear and tear, he’s going to be here for the next eight years. Why’s DJ running him to the ground?

His season is going to end wayyy sooner than most of the players around the league.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Premature wear and tear, he’s going to be here for the next eight years. Why’s DJ running him to the ground?

DJ thinks short term not long term and by short term I mean the next 5 minutes maybe less.

Playing that many minutes takes its toll on your body at the NHL level. Its a credit to Chabot for handling it as well as he has. Your body needs time to recover when its depleted.

 

[Answer]

This still seems crazy considering as a team we are not exactly a puck control team. I guess it helps when you have ~150 more 5v5 icetime than the next closest defender,

He handles the puck a little too much in his own zone. Giving it away at the same rate, as well, for past 1 month, or so.

Unless those are offensive stats?

 

[aragorn]

Hopefully, next season Wolanin is in the lineup from the beginning of the yr & his skating & offensive ability should give Chabot a breather from time to time. Should be interesting to see how JBD does next season & how long it takes before he is playing full time in Ottawa, maybe with Wolanin (UND pair).

 

[Larionov]

I played competitive, and that's definitely not true.

The highest time on ice per game since 2005 is 27:00, Scott Neidermeyer in 06-07

Chabot has the 2nd most in a single game since 05' with 37:50 this season, and this season is leading the league with 25:50 per game. He's already playing too many minutes right now, giving him an added 5-6 minutes a game is not smart. He has 2 more minutes per game at even strength than the next closest guy.

There is nothing routine with logging 30 minutes a night

Check out Pronger's numbers in his prime in St. Louis - he was logging 27 - 30 minutes a night on average for about nine years straight...

 

[thinkwild]

It would seem Chabots ice time is a bit high looking at other stats. I sure wouldn’t know how to evaluate that properly but im guessing Chabot isn’t complaining too much or they’d lower it.

Its gotta be a tough thing to balance between developing all players in a meaningless string of games by giving out ice time perhaps not fully earned and instituting the system.

If we were battling for the last playoff position for some reason, we would probably want Chabot playing that ice time in this situation? If the coach were to say hey lets just do things we wouldn’t normally do in allowing ice time to be earned then we risk the players taking the message of mailing it in which can also be harmful for development, as well as harmful to establishment of a coaches system for earning ice time. I would think balancing that is something they must weigh?

 

[OD99]

This still seems crazy considering as a team we are not exactly a puck control team. I guess it helps when you have ~150 more 5v5 icetime than the next closest defender,

Hughes right there already is stunning.

'Nucks scored a beauty with him.

 

[Xspyrit]

I’ve said it plenty of times this season but remember : this season is not supposed to be the norm; this is the main rebuilding year and a lot has changed since the Brassard trade 2 TDs ago. They are still in transition

Next season, a lot of the young talented players will graduate. How will DJ adapt remains to be seen but at some point, they have to turn to the future since they decided to entirely rebuild the team...

A couple of vets should be brought to help insulate those young guys. Curious to see what is going to be done and if money will be invested but for me, after this draft, it’s time to start rising

 

[Ice-Tray]

DJ has to think about DJ first and foremost. If he wants to keep working in the NHL and establish himself as a legitimate head coach he needs as many wins as he can get.

Maybe "job" was not the right word. How about this: new head coaches are heavily incentivised to win as many games as they can so that they keep working as HCs. Eventually he will leave Ottawa and he needs as good a track record as possible to get another HC job.

That being said, he's definitely taking it too far by playing Chabot so much. My point is more that is Dorion's "problem" because he is the manager, Dorion needs to either:

- Tell him to play Chabot less which is a big no-no in terms of etiquette
- Give DJ better players which the better option

Everybody on the bench wants to win. It isn't their job to manage the roster, that's the GM's job.

Lol, too far by playing Chabot too much? Gesus, the kid is playing a lot of minutes, like a top defender used to play. As he said himself, he loves playing a ton, and it’s nice to get him comfortable with playing heavy minutes over the coarse of the rebuild. We need him.

I disagree. DJs job is to do whatever the GM wants at this stage of the rebuild.

PD has likely given DJ a mandate to instil a culture of hard work and relentless play, as well as to develop the kids in the roster, and evaluate the various kids that have been sent up for a taste along the way.

DJ isn’t secretly, and robotically trying to win at all costs, he’s just as much a part of the rebuild plan as the players are. He has a job to do that is outside the simplistic parameters of ‘must win or I’ll get fired’.

The GM doesn’t need to give DJ better players, because the GM a) wants us to tank this season, and b) wants DJ to develop the core players we have.

I know you’re mad about Pageau and DeMelo, but you’re not making a whole lot of sense here. PD and DJ are on the same page with the rebuild, as is TM, and everyone else on the management side. Heck, the players are also onboard from he look of things.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I'm not in full disagreement here, that's obviously how things work for "normal" franchises trying to win games, I just think that part of what PD should be evaluating DJ on is his ability to develop the kids and in some cases (Chabot playing way too much being one of them) he's ultimately failing.

The best way for DJS to ensure he'll have more opportunities once he moves on from the Sens (or they move on fro him) is to pile up wins. The best way for DJS to ensure he remains HC of the Ottawa Senators is to put just as much emphasis on development as he does on wins, at least in the short term. It's certainly more of a Dorion problem, but that doesn't mean it's not (at least partially) a DJ Smith problem too.

Come on now. Other teams’ GMs aren’t simply going to look at the win column after this season and judge DJs coaching, that’s ridiculous.

They will look how difficult it was to play against his bottom 3 team that is devoid of skill and veteran players, and give props to the coaching staff, much like every colour guy does every time the Sens play.

Also, we can all have opinions of ice time distribution, but seriously, none of us are good enough to get close to pro coaching, and none of us have any idea of what goes on at practice or behind closed doors. Suffice it to say that ice time is distributed for reasons unbeknown to us. Have an opinion for sure, but let’s stop pretending like any of us are in a position to make statements like “he’s undeniably failing”.

It’s a bit silly.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Coach DJ is jeopardizing the future by playing Chabot like this. If Chabot gets a Karlsson like injury this early in his career, that's it for the rebuild. We've already committed mega dollars to the guy. We need him healthy. The games don't mean anything. Please stop the madness. There needs to be a minutes limit on him for the rest of the season. For what other reason do guys like Reilly, Zaitsev and Hainsey exist?

 

[JD1]

Coach DJ is jeopardizing the future by playing Chabot like this. If Chabot gets a Karlsson like injury this early in his career, that's it for the rebuild. We've already committed mega dollars to the guy. We need him healthy. The games don't mean anything. Please stop the madness. There needs to be a minutes limit on him for the rest of the season. For what other reason do guys like Reilly, Zaitsev and Hainsey exist?

Well Matt Cooke is retired so we can rule out a stomping incident

I think you're overreacting a little

There are lots of guys that have logged Chabot's ice time at his age over the years.

Your issue of jnjury is interesting. If playing Chabot and him getting injured destroys the rebuild, what level of ice time isn't a threat? Why not shut him down for the remainder of the year?

At the end of the day, someone always leads the league in icetime and its always a youngish d man that skates effortlessly. For sure it'd be better that we have sufficient D strength to knock him back a few minutes but if Chabot ends up north of 25 minutes a night for the remainder of his contract i wont be surprised

 

[bert]

Bottom line is playing Chabot 32 minutes and Jaros 7 is not good for the organization in any way in this scenario. If the team is making a playoff push sure. Its non sensical in this scenario. No way Pierre is happy about it.