Player Discussion Thomas Chabot (D) Extended 8 years 8M AAV

[Do Make Say Think]

How about those comments from Garrioch tonight on this contract. They told TC they weren't offering any bonuses, so don't even try. That could prove to bite them if they think they get to set the market and dig their heels in the sand on issues like this or trade protection.

We shall see how Tkachuk's agent feels about that... I have a feeling it won't be as smooth a negotiation.

 

[Sensung]

We shall see how Tkachuk's agent feels about that... I have a feeling it won't be as smooth a negotiation.

Is Brady a Meehan client like his brother Matt?

If so, then ya I don’t see the Sens being able to get away with similar tactics. Frankly, I’m still flabbergasted that Chabot’s agent fell for that BS.

 

[Bevans]

Is Brady a Meehan client like his brother Matt?

If so, then ya I don’t see the Sens being able to get away with similar tactics. Frankly, I’m still flabbergasted that Chabot’s agent fell for that BS.

Good on the Senators for sticking to their guns on that. Why give these bonus laden contracts to RFA's without arbitration rights? Go ahead, sit out the season.

Heavily bonus laden structures should be used :

1) for players with leverage (arbitration eligible or UFA)
2) in exchange for something the team wants (term or salary total).

The Leafs have started a trend of just giving the bonus money for free, without receiving any concession in return.

I don't intend to turn this into a silly sens vs leafs pissing match so I hesitate to use them as an example. But fact is, it appears as if Leafs give all bonuses because they can- not because they get some in return for doing it. (As demonstrated by fact they are paying 3 of the top 7 highest salaries AND still give more bonuses than anyone else.

In summary, why give Chabot or Tkachuk bonus laden contracts if you don't have to or you're not getting anything in return?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Is Brady a Meehan client like his brother Matt?

If so, then ya I don’t see the Sens being able to get away with similar tactics. Frankly, I’m still flabbergasted that Chabot’s agent fell for that BS.

At the end of the day, very few teams can actually afford these outrageous bonus structures.

It isn't BS, it is the reality of a disparate market like the NHL. The NHL actually needs teams to push back on them because they will lead to another lockout if nothing is done to attempt to keep them in check.

 

[Sensung]

Good on the Senators for sticking to their guns on that. Why give these bonus laden contracts to RFA's without arbitration rights? Go ahead, sit out the season.

Heavily bonus laden structures should be used :

1) for players with leverage (arbitration eligible or UFA)
2) in exchange for something the team wants (term or salary total).

The Leafs have started a trend of just giving the bonus money for free, without receiving any concession in return.

I don't intend to turn this into a silly sens vs leafs pissing match so I hesitate to use them as an example. But fact is, it appears as if Leafs give all bonuses because they can- not because they get some in return for doing it. (As demonstrated by fact they are paying 3 of the top 7 highest salaries AND still give more bonuses than anyone else.

In summary, why give Chabot or Tkachuk bonus laden contracts if you don't have to or you're not getting anything in return?

Chabot would have likely gotten a bonus laden offer sheet.

If that failed to happen, he could simply demand a trade.

Acting like Thomas had no leverage ignores reality

Just be grateful he decided not to use it.

The benefit to the Leafs is that by front loading and paying in bonus, they can ship the cap hit to welfare owners like Melnyk who want caphit with low real $.

 

[Sensung]

At the end of the day, very few teams can actually afford these outrageous bonus structures.

It isn't BS, it is the reality of a disparate market like the NHL. The NHL actually needs teams to push back on them because they will lead to another lockout if nothing is done to attempt to keep them in check.

One of the teams who could (the Habs) would have been likely pony up an offer sheet for Chabot.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

One of the teams who could like the Habs would have been likely pony up an offer sheet for Chabot.

Could. He was offered 64 million dollars to play for the Sens and he said yes. It was surprising but it wasn't irrational.

You should come to terms with the fact that your extremely negative attitude is not shared by many.

 

[bert]

Good on the Senators for sticking to their guns on that. Why give these bonus laden contracts to RFA's without arbitration rights? Go ahead, sit out the season.

Heavily bonus laden structures should be used :

1) for players with leverage (arbitration eligible or UFA)
2) in exchange for something the team wants (term or salary total).

The Leafs have started a trend of just giving the bonus money for free, without receiving any concession in return.

I don't intend to turn this into a silly sens vs leafs pissing match so I hesitate to use them as an example. But fact is, it appears as if Leafs give all bonuses because they can- not because they get some in return for doing it. (As demonstrated by fact they are paying 3 of the top 7 highest salaries AND still give more bonuses than anyone else.

In summary, why give Chabot or Tkachuk bonus laden contracts if you don't have to or you're not getting anything in return?

100 percent accurate post.

I do believe the leafs did it on purpose to an extent. Setting that standard helps leverage the advantage they have over most of the league.

 

[Sensung]

Could. He was offered 64 million dollars to play for the Sens and he said yes. It was surprising but it wasn't irrational.

I'm sure Chabot feels the decision was rational. He obviously applied different criteria and chose security.

It would also have been rational for them to use the massive amount of leverage they had to get a bonus laden deal or get traded if the Sens stuck to their no bonus policy.

I'm happy he chose security, but as you noted in this thread already, assuming Brady will do the same is not a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Bevans]

Chabot would have gotten a bonus laden offer sheet.

If that failed to happen, he could simply demand a trade.

Acting like Thomas had no leverage ignores reality

Just be grateful he decided not to use it.

The benefit to the Leafs is that by front loading and paying in bonus, they can ship the cap hit to welfare owners like Melnyk who want caphit with low real $.

Good thing Ottawa got him to sign a year early when offer sheets aren't possible then.

I guess what I'm greatful for is that the senators organization isn't as worried about imaginary offer sheets as you are.

 

[Bevans]

100 percent accurate post.

I do believe the leafs did it on purpose to an extent. Setting that standard helps leverage the advantage they have over most of the league.

I would agree the leafs benefit if they had kept their cap hits down. If one team is paying all bonuses at below market price then yeah their cap space goes way farther.
Im just not sure how the Leafs can leverage their position now that they're maxed out on the cap, paying the most to their top talent, and paying it fastest.

Even if a cheap team like Ottawa loses a star like Tkachuk because they can't pay a bonus.... Does that benefit the leafs? Putting this pressure on other teams only helps the leafs if it benefits them directly.

To me it looks like they gave it to:

Tavares successfully to beat out other bidders.

To Matthews without a direct beneficial return.

Then Nylander and Marner both said yep Well take it too.

Now it looks like point tkachuk Rantanen Laine are making the same arguments and all other GMs are saying no.

In this environment Chabot's contract is a steal. Even if Roenick disagrees.

 

[Sensung]

Good thing Ottawa got him to sign a year early when offer sheets aren't possible then.

I guess what I'm greatful for is that the senators organization isn't as worried about imaginary offer sheets as you are.

Bury your head in the sand if you like.

 

[Bevans]

Bury your head in the sand if you like.

Tilt at windmills if you like.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

Bury your head in the sand if you like.

No one's burying their heads in the sand. We know the threat is there. This is the reality of being a fan of a small market team. What can we do about it? We can support the team with ticket sales (blasphemy) and we have to hope the organization drafts and develops well so we have a steady stream of young, inexpensive players filling out the roster.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think the concern lies in their unwillingness to meet in the middle. We've heard of them having hard line approaches to this stuff and trade protection in the past and its gauranteed to lose you players at some point. Most teams are giving bonus structures of some sort to rfa's and ufa's, its just not to the extent of the Leafs. At some point, a player/agent is going to say no, we're not giving you a discount. The Senators don't get to set the market unfortunately.

Make no mistake, this was a massive consession given by TC purely for the benefit of the Senators, we'll have to see if the other players want to do the same, or play their cards to get it elsewhere.

 

[Sensung]

No one's burying their heads in the sand. We know the threat is there. This is the reality of being a fan of a small market team. What can we do about it? We can support the team with ticket sales (blasphemy) and we have to hope the organization drafts and develops well so we have a steady stream of young, inexpensive players filling out the roster.

Or alternatively, we can work towards Melnykout.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I think the concern lies in their unwillingness to meet in the middle. We've heard of them having hard line approaches to this stuff and trade protection in the past and its gauranteed to lose you players at some point. Most teams are giving bonus structures of some sort to rfa's and ufa's, its just not to the extent of the Leafs. At some point, a player/agent is going to say no, we're not giving you a discount. The Senators don't get to set the market unfortunately.

Make no mistake, this was a massive consession given by TC purely for the benefit of the Senators, we'll have to see if the other players want to do the same, or play their cards to get it elsewhere.

I didn’t think Chabot would get signing bonuses, personally. He’s not like Marner or Matthews. Like other RFAs he didn’t have much leverage. The only guy I could see getting signing bonuses is the number one or two overall pick if we got that, unless Tkachuk has a massive statistical season this year

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I didn’t think Chabot would get signing bonuses, personally. He’s not like Marner or Matthews. Like other RFAs he didn’t have much leverage. The only guy I could see getting signing bonuses is the number one or two overall pick if we got that, unless Tkachuk has a massive statistical season this year

He's not like Marner and Matthews, but those aren't the only players in the league getting bonuses, they're just the ones getting absurd amounts paid out that way. If Chabot hadn't signed early and just played out the year, that would have been all the leverage they needed, or he'd be sitting out like Laine and Tkachuk.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited he accepted as it does bode well for the team, I'm just don't think everyone's going to play ball if they do with all players what Garrioch said they did here. That comment is incredibly concerning. They don't set the market, the market sets the market and you choose when you want to play and when not too.

It also can't be used as any sort of proof Melnyk will spend since its just a bog standard aav contract same as White's. They're still commited only to amounts below the cap floor, and they don't have bonuses to pay which was always the concern. If I knew TC would accept a contract without bonuses, I never would have been concerned whatsoever.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

He's not like Marner and Matthews, but those aren't the only players in the league getting bonuses, they're just the ones getting absurd amounts paid out that way. If Chabot hadn't signed early and just played out the year, that would have been all the leverage they needed, or he'd be sitting out like Laine and Tkachuk.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited he accepted as it does bode well for the team, I'm just don't think everyone's going to play ball if they do with all players what Garrioch said they did here. That comment is incredibly concerning. They don't set the market, the market sets the market and you choose when you want to play and when not too.

It also can't be used as any sort of proof Melnyk will spend since its just a bog standard aav contract same as White's. They're still commited only to amounts below the cap floor, and they don't have bonuses to pay which was always the concern. If I knew TC would accept a contract without bonuses, I never would have been concerned whatsoever.

I don’t think it’s proof that they will spend to the cap in a few years but I also can’t see ownership staying the same so I think and hope it won’t be relevant anyway.

Even with Melnyk I don’t see the Sens or any other team not signing their RFA players. It’s a totally different ballgame than UFA

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Or alternatively, we can work towards Melnykout.

We already are!

 

[Matsens15]

Is Brady a Meehan client like his brother Matt?

If so, then ya I don’t see the Sens being able to get away with similar tactics. Frankly, I’m still flabbergasted that Chabot’s agent fell for that BS.

Yes. Brady Tkachuk agent is Don Meehan.

 

[BonkTastic]

Chabot's agent is... Ian Pulver, I think? He runs Will Sports Group agency.

Gimme a sec, who else does he represent? Tyler Seguin, Miro Heiskanen, and... that's kinda it, eh? Josh Ho-Sang?

I wonder how many negotiations Pulver has done at this level before?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I think a big part of it for Chabot was security.

The team is going to stink this year. And, the problem with being a defenseman, is you often have to rely on others being competent to help your own point totals. Chabot can make great plays, lug the puck up the ice or set guys up for 99% sure-fire goals...but if no one on the team can deliver on what he sets up, his stats will suffer.

 

[Boud]

Chabot's agent is... Ian Pulver, I think? He runs Will Sports Group agency.

Gimme a sec, who else does he represent? Tyler Seguin, Miro Heiskanen, and... that's kinda it, eh? Josh Ho-Sang?

I wonder how many negotiations Pulver has done at this level before?

To be fair I think he's smart enough to see what's happening around the league. Chabot was likely just fine not getting the bonus structure, otherwise he could've personally requested that like other players do.

My impression is the team really pushed hard to have no bonus structure. The agent and the player have all the leverage, they could wait until next summer and sign a bonus structured offer sheet like Aho did.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

As much as Roenick is an idiot, Chabot did just "get" 64 million dollars after scoring 80 points.

I am not outraged but he isn't wrong that is a lot of money. Let's not act like he took a discount.