Confirmed Trade: [CGY/EDM] James Neal for Milan Lucic (12.5% retained) and a 2020 conditional 3rd round pick Part 4

[Bank Shot]

Personally I believe Lucic can still play. I just think the style of play was a problem for him with the Oilers. With Kopitar he did fabulous. But to expect him to keep up on the rush at the pace that McDavid plays at is difficult for a heavier power forward.

I could see Lucic having more success with a Tkachuk-Backlund combo who are excellent down low and cycling.

Lucic can't play right wing though. Maybe Tkachuk can....

 

[GodPucker]

Lucic MIGHT only be effective in small amounts around the corners and in less space.

Go READ OUR GAME DAY THREADS

The guy would f*** up so many simple passes. Get a pass before the blue line uncontested, go off side or bobble it.

Bobble uncontested passes to him on a PP and give them away.

Don't get your hopes up Flames fans

A useless Neal standing in one spot one timing nice passes will be more useful

Nevermind Lucic doing nothing the million times McDavid was getting mugged and bullied.

Holland is a god getting rid of Lucic.

 

[cpsman]

So three players are doing ok and one of them is a first overall generational and the other a top 5 pick both getting prime minutes.
You really put me in my place bud.

I wasn't trying to put you in your place. I'm just saying your argument doesn't make sense. You are just making an argument of convenience that Lucic sucks because of a team rather than the more likely reason of his downfall - that he has declined as a player. Fans around the league agree on this. Calgary fans were bashing Lucic all year for forgetting how to play hockey. Why the 180?

 

[cpsman]

Have you played team pro sports? the first couple of years it's awesome no matter what, big money and fame. After that winning is the most
important part that lets you sleep at night, loosing sucks, it drags you down and when it looks hopeless even the most dedicated athlete game suffers to the point of almost quitting.

This is a human physiological fact.

Here's the fact, Lucic was on a bad loosing team and sucked, Neal was on the NHL's 2nd best team and still sucked.

First of all it's "losing" not "loosing"

Secondly I never denied that there is a psychological component. Did you know it's a fact that people age? Did you know it is a fact that players cannot play to the same amount of skill as they age? How come you are denying this human physiological fact? It's laughable how Flames fans are latching on to any argument of convenience here

 

[Tyrolean]

Lucic was not the worst layer. He scored more than Reider. He was the worst player for the money. No I take that back, he was not a worthy NHLer as his skills really dropped off a cliff.

 

[cpsman]

m
It’s amazing how Rubi has done a complete 180 on Lucic since you know, he’s a Calgary Flame.

Oh but there's more:

At least in the one quote he realizes that things may change with Neal in a year lol.

 

[cpsman]

they can't buyout his contract because there's virtually no cap savings with a buy out


his 2 million dollar buyout is still better than Lucic's 6 million dollar contract
what don't you get about that?

Don't bother, the select few people here who are making arguments against Neal and his contract keep saying that it's 2 million in dead cap for 6 years. They neglect to mention that for the first 3 years it's a net savings of 3.8 million per year, and over the 6 years total it's a net savings of 5.75 million dollars. They just don't understand that.

EDIT: compared to Lucic which would have a net savings of only 1.5 million dollars if also bought out next year

 

[Rubi]

I love these experts here on HF and their very short memories

m
It’s amazing how Rubi has done a complete 180 on Lucic since you know, he’s a Calgary Flame.

lol. That's a great find.

Yep... I was wrong. Turns out the Oilers didn't get stuck with a $6M tough guy that can't score. The problem is that they NEEDED that $6M tough guy to score. The Oilers were desperate for offense from someone not named McDavid or Draisaitl.... and still are.

On the other hand, Calgary is one of the deepest and highest scoring teams in the league and they'll do just fine without Lucic's scoring abilities.

Lucic is still a tough guy. He also probably won't score much. I still think he's significantly over paid for what he contributes to the team .... even at $5.25M which is $750,000 less than what the Oilers were paying him.

Where's the 180 in that??? You guys are just making things up to make yourself feel better... like you actually got a win or something.... not that it counts for much.

The only thing I was mistaken on was the no movement part and that's not a 180 on my part. I just didn't see Neal being so f***ing awful that the Flames would be willing to take on even Lucic's contract just to get Neal off the team. Good luck with James Neal. Your team desperately needs it. The Flames don't need luck with Lucic. They'll do just fine this season with or without him.

See you in the playoffs...
...oops my bad... you won't be there.

Yep... I can see it all now.. The Oilers at the end of the season will be one of the bottom teams in the league but you guys will be celebrating and doing the happy dance because you think you pulled one over the Flames before the season even started. LOL

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Yep... I was wrong.

that is correct
let's end this thread on that note

 

[GodPucker]

Yep... I was wrong. Turns out the Oilers didn't get stuck with a $6M tough guy that can't score. The problem is that they NEEDED that $6M tough guy to score. The Oilers were desperate for offense from someone not named McDavid or Draisaitl.... and still are.

On the other hand, Calgary is one of the deepest and highest scoring teams in the league and they'll do just fine without Lucic's scoring abilities.

Lucic is still a tough guy. He also probably won't score much. I still think he's significantly over paid for what he contributes to the team .... even at $5.25M which is $750,000 less than what the Oilers were paying him.

Where's the 180 in that??? You guys are just making things up to make yourself feel better... like you actually got a win or something.... not that it counts for much.

The only thing I was mistaken on was the no movement part and that's not a 180 on my part. I just didn't see Neal being so ****ing awful that the Flames would be willing to take on even Lucic's contract just to get Neal off the team. Good luck with James Neal. Your team desperately needs it. The Flames don't need luck with Lucic. They'll do just fine this season with or without him.

See you in the playoffs...
...oops my bad... you won't be there.

Yep... I can see it all now.. The Oilers at the end of the season will be one of the bottom teams in the league but you guys will be celebrating and doing the happy dance because you think you pulled one over the Flames before the season even started. LOL

Lucic should not have even been dressed for a lot of games last year, even with that sh** bottom 6. That's how bad he was. If you think he will contribute down on the bottom, all the power to ya.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Nope... haven't changed my opinion about Lucic. At $5.25M he's still vastly overpaid for what he brings to the table.
The difference is that one way or another the Flames were going to be stuck with a 4 year contract between $5.25M and $5.75M. I'd rather be stuck with Lucic's $5.25 contract than Neal's $5.75M contract. Last year Neal conclusively proved that he was a waste of space on the bench ... at any dollar amount.

As an Oilers fan, I can tell you none of the other fans I've spoken with (which isn't everyone obviously) can wrap their head around anyone wanting Looch. The Flames fans seem to have a similar opinion/view of Neal, but the consensus is Neal has a better chance of turning it around, so the Oilers 'win' the trade.

IMO, Lucic's contributions on a 4th line are better suited to a winning team that needs grit. He's definitely not worth his contract, but he's better than Neal in that specific role. On the flipside, Neal is a much better fit in the top 9, which Looch was awful at. This is very much 'adition by subtraction' for Calgary, and the same for Edmonton. The difference is Neal could turn in to more than that, and if all goes well, the Oilers would win 'more'. And if both suck, then they are square 1.

For the Oilers, it's a no brainer to make this move. Even if it doesn't pan out, it wasn't anyways. Same for Calgary except a buyout was a better option. But maybe ownership said no, so this was the best they could do. Who knows. I think it's a win-win with one team winning more, that's all.

I'm sure this post will now piss off someone who considers Looch the prime suspect on why anything negative in their life has ever happened. Lol

 

[Rubi]

Oh but there's more:

At least in the one quote he realizes that things may change with Neal in a year lol. View attachment 252441 View attachment 252443 View attachment 252445

I was on the mark about Lucic's scoring ability and I haven't changed my opinion or done a 180 on that. The only player that I've done a 180 on is Neal. He was f***ing awful last year and my Grandmother has a better shot than him.
Yes... Lucic played like a pylon last year. Hopefully, under new coaching and a new team, that will change this year. No 180 there. Until proven otherwise I still think he's a pylon.

I was right about paying Lucic $6M to score 10 goals was a big mistake. It was an even bigger one when he only scored 7 goals. I still think that. No 180 there. Lucic is seriously overpaid.

I was completely wrong in my belief that Neal can put the puck in the net and thinking he would score 20+ goals. Boy was I wrong. I've seriously done a 180 on that belief.

I was right when I said that if Neal doesn't work out that he can be traded... he was traded... for an equally bad player in Lucic so it turns out I was wrong about Lucic in that respect.

In the end, on Sept 7 2018, I said: "we can only make an analysis on what we know, not what might happen in the future."
Well... on Sept 1, 2019 I now know a hell of a lot more about James Neal than I did on Sept 7 2018 and the only 180 I've done is on James Neal. The guy is useless as tits on a bull and a waste of space on the bench. Lucic will have to fail pretty badly to meet the standard that Neal set last season.

 

[cpsman]

I was on the mark about Lucic's scoring ability and I haven't changed my opinion or done a 180 on that. The only player that I've done a 180 on is Neal. He was ****ing awful last year and my Grandmother has a better shot than him.
Yes... Lucic played like a pylon last year. Hopefully, under new coaching and a new team, that will change this year. No 180 there. Until proven otherwise I still think he's a pylon.

I was right about paying Lucic $6M to score 10 goals was a big mistake. It was an even bigger one when he only scored 7 goals. I still think that. No 180 there. Lucic is seriously overpaid.

I was completely wrong in my belief that Neal can put the puck in the net and thinking he would score 20+ goals. Boy was I wrong. I've seriously done a 180 on that belief.

I was right when I said that if Neal doesn't work out that he can be traded... he was traded... for an equally bad player in Lucic so it turns out I was wrong about Lucic in that respect.

In the end, on Sept 7 2018, I said: "we can only make an analysis on what we know, not what might happen in the future."
Well... on Sept 1, 2019 I now know a hell of a lot more about James Neal than I did on Sept 7 2018 and the only 180 I've done is on James Neal. The guy is useless as **** on a bull and a waste of space on the bench. Lucic will have to fail pretty badly to meet the standard that Neal set last season.

yeah i totally gave you credit for saying that .

Thanks for owning up to your wrong assessments on Neal.

I still don't think that Neal is worse than him though. We'll have to wait a year to find out.

 

[Rubi]

As an Oilers fan, I can tell you none of the other fans I've spoken with (which isn't everyone obviously) can wrap their head around anyone wanting Looch. The Flames fans seem to have a similar opinion/view of Neal, but the consensus is Neal has a better chance of turning it around, so the Oilers 'win' the trade.

IMO, Lucic's contributions on a 4th line are better suited to a winning team that needs grit. He's definitely not worth his contract, but he's better than Neal in that specific role. On the flipside, Neal is a much better fit in the top 9, which Looch was awful at. This is very much 'adition by subtraction' for Calgary, and the same for Edmonton. The difference is Neal could turn in to more than that, and if all goes well, the Oilers would win 'more'. And if both suck, then they are square 1.

For the Oilers, it's a no brainer to make this move. Even if it doesn't pan out, it wasn't anyways. Same for Calgary except a buyout was a better option. But maybe ownership said no, so this was the best they could do. Who knows. I think it's a win-win with one team winning more, that's all.

I'm sure this post will now piss off someone who considers Looch the prime suspect on why anything negative in their life has ever happened. Lol

This guy gets it.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Yep... I was wrong. Turns out the Oilers didn't get stuck with a $6M tough guy that can't score. The problem is that they NEEDED that $6M tough guy to score. The Oilers were desperate for offense from someone not named McDavid or Draisaitl.... and still are.

On the other hand, Calgary is one of the deepest and highest scoring teams in the league and they'll do just fine without Lucic's scoring abilities.

Lucic is still a tough guy. He also probably won't score much. I still think he's significantly over paid for what he contributes to the team .... even at $5.25M which is $750,000 less than what the Oilers were paying him.

Where's the 180 in that??? You guys are just making things up to make yourself feel better... like you actually got a win or something.... not that it counts for much.

The only thing I was mistaken on was the no movement part and that's not a 180 on my part. I just didn't see Neal being so ****ing awful that the Flames would be willing to take on even Lucic's contract just to get Neal off the team. Good luck with James Neal. Your team desperately needs it. The Flames don't need luck with Lucic. They'll do just fine this season with or without him.

See you in the playoffs...
...oops my bad... you won't be there.

Yep... I can see it all now.. The Oilers at the end of the season will be one of the bottom teams in the league but you guys will be celebrating and doing the happy dance because you think you pulled one over the Flames before the season even started. LOL

All you needed to do was admit that you turned heel as soon as Lucic and Neal changed jerseys.

Or at least stay consistent with what you posted not even a year ago.

Instead, you decide to dig deeper and ignorantly deny that you changed your opinion on Neal and Lucic.

You’re making it sound like paying 5.25 million bucks on a guy to be tough is a good thing. Or actually, you admit it’s too much, but instead of leaving it there, you try to rationalize why it’s good.

Now remember: that tough guy on the Oilers was nothing more than the worst contract in the league and a 4th liner. No consistency, except said tough guy is now a beloved Flame, so it’s okay.

If you honestly think that the Oilers mis used Lucic or didn’t give him opportunities (which you are implying here and in the previous threads), you’re burying your head in the sand. When a guy has produced at a top six rate previous to being sign, the expectation is not to stink up the bottom six and produce like a top six player. This is a crummy point on your part and plain ignorant.

But once again, since he’s a Flame, he now has the potential to change everything!

Also, you know you have jack all when you have to go into the pissing match route. Yeah, Oilers might not make the playoffs, but at least they won’t shit the bed like the Flames do on a yearly basis.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Holland absolutely pantsed Treliving and then bent him over his knee and paddled him. What a disgraceful trade for Calgary.

 

[blankall]

All you needed to do was admit that you turned heel as soon as Lucic and Neal changed jerseys.

Or at least stay consistent with what you posted not even a year ago.

Instead, you decide to dig deeper and ignorantly deny that you changed your opinion on Neal and Lucic.

You’re making it sound like paying 5.25 million bucks on a guy to be tough is a good thing. Or actually, you admit it’s too much, but instead of leaving it there, you try to rationalize why it’s good.

Now remember: that tough guy on the Oilers was nothing more than the worst contract in the league and a 4th liner. No consistency, except said tough guy is now a beloved Flame, so it’s okay.

If you honestly think that the Oilers mis used Lucic or didn’t give him opportunities (which you are implying here and in the previous threads), you’re burying your head in the sand. When a guy has produced at a top six rate previous to being sign, the expectation is not to stink up the bottom six and produce like a top six player. This is a crummy point on your part and plain ignorant.

But once again, since he’s a Flame, he now has the potential to change everything!

Also, you know you have jack all when you have to go into the pissing match route. Yeah, Oilers might not make the playoffs, but at least they won’t **** the bed like the Flames do on a yearly basis.

Lol.

It's clearly the Oilers fans who've turned heal here. I have yet to see any fans fan describe Neal as anything but a horrible overpriced winger, both before and after the trade. After the trade the consensus is this was a garbage in garbage out trade, but hopefully the Flames are getting badly needed physical play.

Meanwhile, Oilers fans, despite previously describing Neal as garbage, are acting like they've won the lottery.

 

[blankall]

Don't bother, the select few people here who are making arguments against Neal and his contract keep saying that it's 2 million in dead cap for 6 years. They neglect to mention that for the first 3 years it's a net savings of 3.8 million per year, and over the 6 years total it's a net savings of 5.75 million dollars. They just don't understand that.

EDIT: compared to Lucic which would have a net savings of only 1.5 million dollars if also bought out next year

The Oilers also retained and have up a pick.

 

[cpsman]

The Oilers also retained and have up a pick.

Sure okay even with the retention it gives the Oilers room.

Pick isn't given up yet. It's conditional. Clearly if Neal does so well to satisfy the conditions, then why the heck would the Oilers buy him out??? You adding that to your argument doesn't strengthen it lol

 

[blankall]

Sure okay even with the retention it gives the Oilers room.

Pick isn't given up yet. It's conditional. Clearly if Neal does so well to satisfy the conditions, then why the heck would the Oilers buy him out??? You adding that to your argument doesn't strengthen it lol

Of course it adds to the argument. How does retaining salary not get factored into a discussion of cap/salary value?

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

Holland absolutely pantsed Treliving and then bent him over his knee and paddled him. What a disgraceful trade for Calgary.

That’s a bad take...... I agree that Neal is the better player and has the best shot btw the two of having a bounce back next season.

But from Calgary GM perspective..... He screwed up in signing Neal as he did not fit with Calgary at all. Neal has 23 mill left over the next four years...... if he buys him out that’s 16 mill wasted and a 8 year reminder of 2 mill dead cap space.

by taking Lucic...... that 23 mill total cost over 4 years is reduced to 14 mill. and cap hit reduced by 500 k.

After 1 more season and paying Lucic signing bonus on July 1 st 2020 Lucic is only owed 10 mill ( real $) over the final 3 years of his contract (of that 10 million owed Edmonton is paying 1.8 mill in retention). With some further retention by Calgary for Cap reasons .... that 8.2 million in real $s over 3 years is a movable contract.

Edmonton on the other hand is spending their new arena $ like drunken sailors. They have taken on 4 years @ 5.75 mill plus paid this years 3 mill signing bonus of Lucic and $750 k per year of Lucic contract for the remainder of his contract........ for a grand total of $28.5mill.

So who won this trade of 2 recently signed UFAs that are no longer wanted by their teams.... hmmm

Edmonton on the hook for $28.5 mill for 4 years of Neal....that may have the same trade value next year....

Calgary on the hook for 14 million.... with an asset that after July 1 st 3 mill bonus payout next summer may be more movable....

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Lol.

It's clearly the Oilers fans who've turned heal here. I have yet to see any fans fan describe Neal as anything but a horrible overpriced winger, both before and after the trade. After the trade the consensus is this was a garbage in garbage out trade, but hopefully the Flames are getting badly needed physical play.

Meanwhile, Oilers fans, despite previously describing Neal as garbage, are acting like they've won the lottery.

Hey, it’s the second guy who went complete 180! I mean, @Del Preston already dig up your posts, so don’t really need to get into it since it’s already been shown.

 

[cpsman]

Of course it adds to the argument. How does retaining salary not get factored into a discussion of cap/salary value?

I was talking about the pick if you actually took the time to read my whole post.

 

[GOilers88]

That’s a bad take...... I agree that Neal is the better player and has the best shot btw the two of having a bounce back next season.

But from Calgary GM perspective..... He screwed up in signing Neal as he did not fit with Calgary at all. Neal has 23 mill left over the next four years...... if he buys him out that’s 16 mill wasted and a 8 year reminder of 2 mill dead cap space.

by taking Lucic...... that 23 mill total cost over 4 years is reduced to 14 mill. and cap hit reduced by 500 k.

After 1 more season and paying Lucic signing bonus on July 1 st 2020 Lucic is only owed 10 mill ( real $) over the final 3 years of his contract (of that 10 million owed Edmonton is paying 1.8 mill in retention). With some further retention by Calgary for Cap reasons .... that 8.2 million in real $s over 3 years is a movable contract.

Edmonton on the other hand is spending their new arena $ like drunken sailors. They have taken on 4 years @ 5.75 mill plus paid this years 3 mill signing bonus of Lucic and $750 k per year of Lucic contract for the remainder of his contract........ for a grand total of $28.5mill.

So who won this trade of 2 recently signed UFAs that are no longer wanted by their teams.... hmmm

Edmonton on the hook for $28.5 mill for 4 years of Neal....that may have the same trade value next year....

Calgary on the hook for 14 million.... with an asset that after July 1 st 3 mill bonus payout next summer may be more movable....

People need to get over this ridiculous obsession. There doesn't have to be a f***ing winner and loser on every trade that happens. Good lord, it's the most petty, inane thing I've ever seen.

 

[cpsman]

That’s a bad take...... I agree that Neal is the better player and has the best shot btw the two of having a bounce back next season.

But from Calgary GM perspective..... He screwed up in signing Neal as he did not fit with Calgary at all. Neal has 23 mill left over the next four years...... if he buys him out that’s 16 mill wasted and a 8 year reminder of 2 mill dead cap space.

by taking Lucic...... that 23 mill total cost over 4 years is reduced to 14 mill. and cap hit reduced by 500 k.

After 1 more season and paying Lucic signing bonus on July 1 st 2020 Lucic is only owed 10 mill ( real $) over the final 3 years of his contract (of that 10 million owed Edmonton is paying 1.8 mill in retention). With some further retention by Calgary for Cap reasons .... that 8.2 million in real $s over 3 years is a movable contract.

Edmonton on the other hand is spending their new arena $ like drunken sailors. They have taken on 4 years @ 5.75 mill plus paid this years 3 mill signing bonus of Lucic and $750 k per year of Lucic contract for the remainder of his contract........ for a grand total of $28.5mill.

So who won this trade of 2 recently signed UFAs that are no longer wanted by their teams.... hmmm

Edmonton on the hook for $28.5 mill for 4 years of Neal....that may have the same trade value next year....

Calgary on the hook for 14 million.... with an asset that after July 1 st 3 mill bonus payout next summer may be more movable....

Moveable? Sure for another horrible contract that won't help you MAYBE. Please. Both contracts are bad and not easily movable.

No Oilers fans are looking at this as if they will move Neal. They are looking at either a reasonable middle six winger then this is a win.... or buy him out. Neal's contract is hands down way better to buy out than Lucic's and still favourable IMO even if you take into account retained salary for Lucic