CFL to explore alignment opportunities with XFL

[Mightygoose]

CFL to explore opportunities for alignment with XFL - TSN.ca

What this entail is subject to speculation until more details come out

TSN's Dave Naylor suggests this is big news



Gary Lawless thinks it's a merger and Canada will go to 4 downs.

I doubt it's true merger has they play a different times of the year (CFL June through November and XFL February through late April-early May). Perhaps honor each other's player contracts so they could play in both leagues if they chose too.

The CFL needs a new business model after the cancellation of the 2020 season....could this be part of it?

Click to read more...

 

[Yukon Joe]

So Gary Lawless used to be a reporter in Winnipeg and certainly covered the CFL at the time... but now he's employed by the Vegas Golden Knights and he's well outside the world of the CFL.

CFL has to be in pretty desperate shape after the 2020 season was cancelled and 2021 doesn't look so good either. XFL... who knows what they're up to. League was started by Vince McMahon, he sunk A LOT of money into it only to have Covid wipe it out in it's opening season. We closed the league and sold it off to the new owners (which includes Dwayne Johnson) , so no idea what they might have in mind.

 

[Mightygoose]

XFL relaunch is on pause at the moment pending these talks



CFL season is supposed to start in June but really won't happen. September is more realistic pending vaccinations/opening (or partially) stadiums...etc...

 

[GindyDraws]

If both leagues worked together, would there be fundamental changes to how the CFL play? I don't know if many venues in the United States can be optimized for Canadian football (which was a problem back in the mid 1990s), so it would be the other way around.

 

[Flukeshot]

To state the obvious, tier two football is so unstable, underdeveloped, unorganized.... basically under and un- everything.

Maybe this is as simple as having CFL teams play in the US with some business alliance with the XFL for 2021? Draw some people into US Stadiums.

However it would be great to see a well thought out approach. I'm not a CFL fan so I'm really speaking from a place of minimal knowledge, but I believe they are nearing the point that if they want to grow the game or more importantly grow revenue, they need to look at all options and alterations to format/rules/structure to do so.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

The CFL fulfills a niche. I don't see how they'd be able to survive playing a more Americanized game, as it'd just be a watered down and less talented pro version of the NFL. At that point, they might as well just add an NFL team or two up there.

 

[Yukon Joe]

The CFL fulfills a niche. I don't see how they'd be able to survive playing a more Americanized game, as it'd just be a watered down and less talented pro version of the NFL. At that point, they might as well just add an NFL team or two up there.

The thing is they're not exactly surviving as it is now. Attendance in our biggest markets has been terrible for years and years.

I'm pretty sure the #1 thing the CFL is looking for is cold, hard cash. If the group behind the XFL can pony that up the CFL will do just about anything they want.

 

[Mightygoose]

The thing is they're not exactly surviving as it is now. Attendance in our biggest markets has been terrible for years and years.

I'm pretty sure the #1 thing the CFL is looking for is cold, hard cash. If the group behind the XFL can pony that up the CFL will do just about anything they want.

The big question is how much would Redbird be pushing for specific rule changes and what lines are they willing to draw on each one. When the NFL gave them assistance with a loan in the 90s they never commanded they change rules. How many season ticket holders would they lose specially in the prairie markets if there was a sudden switch to 4 downs for example? I don't Redbird would want to see what happen.

I wonder if the best way start if have 2 leagues under one umbrella org. with a few interlocking games with rules based on the home team.

 

[Yukon Joe]

The big question is how much would Redbird be pushing for specific rule changes and what lines are they willing to draw on each one. When the NFL gave them assistance with a loan in the 90s they never commanded they change rules. How many season ticket holders would they lose specially in the prairie markets if there was a sudden switch to 4 downs for example? I don't Redbird would want to see what happen.

I wonder if the best way start if have 2 leagues under one umbrella org. with a few interlocking games with rules based on the home team.

The NFL's big concern was being able to have players come up from Canada. IIRC players could opt-out of a contract in the offseason to sign with the NFL.

RedBird isn't going to care about that. They want to trade on the reputation and goodwill of the CFL. Most american football fans have heard of the CFL, even if they don't exactly follow it.

3 downs vs 4 downs isn't like designated hitter / no designated hitter. There's a whole variety of rule changes that go along with it (1 yard off the line of scrimmage, players in motion prior to the snap - heck how many men are on the field!). Back during the 90s US expansion the US franchises had a huge advantage - they weren't required to have Canadian players on the roster. But all the franchises (except Baltimore) hired players ad coaches unfamiliar with the Canadian rules and so still got stomped by Canadian teams.

I could see them settling on a set of hybrid rules that mostly follow the 4-down game, but keep some Canadian rules that they think will liven up thing. They'll want to increase scoring, so how about this:

-NFL-sized field but with longer end-zone
-4 downs, 11 players
-players in motion prior to the snap
-the rouge / ball is live if FG missed

I feel like existing CFL fans will mostly be okay with the changes if they can convince us that it's to ensure the survival of the game.

Biggest question for me though is one of control. The XFL model is that all teams are owned by the league. Can you have an alliance between 8 teams (or however many) owned by a single owner, then 9 teams individually owned?

 

[Mightygoose]

The NFL's big concern was being able to have players come up from Canada. IIRC players could opt-out of a contract in the offseason to sign with the NFL.

RedBird isn't going to care about that. They want to trade on the reputation and goodwill of the CFL. Most american football fans have heard of the CFL, even if they don't exactly follow it.

3 downs vs 4 downs isn't like designated hitter / no designated hitter. There's a whole variety of rule changes that go along with it (1 yard off the line of scrimmage, players in motion prior to the snap - heck how many men are on the field!). Back during the 90s US expansion the US franchises had a huge advantage - they weren't required to have Canadian players on the roster. But all the franchises (except Baltimore) hired players ad coaches unfamiliar with the Canadian rules and so still got stomped by Canadian teams.

I could see them settling on a set of hybrid rules that mostly follow the 4-down game, but keep some Canadian rules that they think will liven up thing. They'll want to increase scoring, so how about this:

-NFL-sized field but with longer end-zone
-4 downs, 11 players
-players in motion prior to the snap
-the rouge / ball is live if FG missed

I feel like existing CFL fans will mostly be okay with the changes if they can convince us that it's to ensure the survival of the game.

Biggest question for me though is one of control. The XFL model is that all teams are owned by the league. Can you have an alliance between 8 teams (or however many) owned by a single owner, then 9 teams individually owned?

Yeah it's going to be complicated to align the rules. I think there will be some where both leagues share. Going from 3 downs to 4 will be a hard sell in the Saskatchewans and Winnipegs of the world IMO. Won't make a difference in Toronto and Vancouver.

I'd like to see the field keep it's width to create more space. Keep both benches on the same sideline to save space. That's how BMO field was done which was built soccer first.

I think Redbird is going to have to buy enough of stake to overcome league's ownership structure. 9 team: 3 Community owned, 3 conglomerate, 3 individually owned (and one of those is an estate). The hardest part of anyone trying to move the league forward was a lack of a single vision IMO.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Yeah it's going to be complicated to align the rules. I think there will be some where both leagues share. Going from 3 downs to 4 will be a hard sell in the Saskatchewans and Winnipegs of the world IMO. Won't make a difference in Toronto and Vancouver.

I'd like to see the field keep it's width to create more space. Keep both benches on the same sideline to save space. That's how BMO field was done which was built soccer first.

I think Redbird is going to have to buy enough of stake to overcome league's ownership structure. 9 team: 3 Community owned, 3 conglomerate, 3 individually owned (and one of those is an estate). The hardest part of anyone trying to move the league forward was a lack of a single vision IMO.

Yeah, ownership in Vancouver and Toronto would be happy to basically give away their franchises as long as they're not directly disbanding them.

Edmonton/Saskatchewan/Winnipeg will be the biggest sticklers. They're all community-owned and so are going to be the most conservative. They're also the most successful franchises (off the field at least). But they have to know the league can't survive as a 4-6 team rump centers on the prairies.

 

[cutchemist42]

The CFL fulfills a niche. I don't see how they'd be able to survive playing a more Americanized game, as it'd just be a watered down and less talented pro version of the NFL. At that point, they might as well just add an NFL team or two up there.

But that's the whole point of the XFL, it's just slightly altered American football yet it was arguably finding support in a few markets last year.

Canadians sadly can be an insecure bunch when it comes to being connected to America. If they know they playing an American and a million are watching on ESPN? Canadians would eat that up. I mean its sad but Canadians get giddy when hockey games crack a million in the USA as there are many who view that as American approval.

Look how big of a deal Schitts Creek got by us only after the Emmy win. I loved the show before the Emmy win but it was hard to convince others to check out a comedy on the Canadian Broadcasting Network until that moment.

At the same time, the CanPL is growing despite a better American league already competing in the country.

 

[cutchemist42]

Yeah, ownership in Vancouver and Toronto would be happy to basically give away their franchises as long as they're not directly disbanding them.

Edmonton/Saskatchewan/Winnipeg will be the biggest sticklers. They're all community-owned and so are going to be the most conservative. They're also the most successful franchises (off the field at least). But they have to know the league can't survive as a 4-6 team rump centers on the prairies.

I personally think those franchises might benefit from the new American association, especially if Vancouver/Seattle can play each other.

 

[sabremike]

I'm a Ticats STH who lives in NYS and I think the biggest thing that hurts the CFL is that unlike the NFL (Which is a great TV product but sucks live) it's a great product live but not nearly as good on TV.

 

[Cacciaguida]

If I wanted American football I'd watch the NFL.
I don't want American football.

At the same time, the CanPL is growing despite a better American league already competing in the country.

CanPL is a joke. I can't believe we lost the Fury for that watered down bush league. Literally every team has terrible branding to make things worse.

 

[Mightygoose]

If I wanted American football I'd watch the NFL.
I don't want American football.



CanPL is a joke. I can't believe we lost the Fury for that watered down bush league. Literally every team has terrible branding to make things worse.

Yet despite only playing 1 real season, the CPL will have the same number of teams as the CFL has for most of their existence since 1958. Also soccer like many international sports you can play teams from other leagues in either friendlies or CCL type competition keeping it fresh

The league's inability to grow hurts attracting new fans IMO. Though I like the 3 down game better, the fact it's not played anywhere else in the world is a barrier to grow beyond it's border but changing it could hurt the home base. Not an easy fix

 

[cutchemist42]

Yet despite only playing 1 real season, the CPL will have the same number of teams as the CFL has for most of their existence since 1958. Also soccer like many international sports you can play teams from other leagues in either friendlies or CCL type competition keeping it fresh

The league's inability to grow hurts attracting new fans IMO. Though I like the 3 down game better, the fact it's not played anywhere else in the world is a barrier to grow beyond it's border but changing it could hurt the home base. Not an easy fix

I've listened to many podcasts about this over the past few days, and I have now come to accept 3 downs is maybe gone but I think I'm fine with it.

The NFL playstyle in the end came up and matched our pass heavy playing style. Its maybe 95% as much about passing as the CFL. I think with how little visual difference in playstyle exists between the 2 that I can accept going to 4 downs not changing much.

If the NFL was still it's boring rushing style of 3 yards and a cloud-of-dust prevelant throughout most of its history, I'd be objecting a lot more.

 

[PCSPounder]

I've listened to many podcasts about this over the past few days, and I have now come to accept 3 downs is maybe gone but I think I'm fine with it.

The NFL playstyle in the end came up and matched our pass heavy playing style. Its maybe 95% as much about passing as the CFL. I think with how little visual difference in playstyle exists between the 2 that I can accept going to 4 downs not changing much.

If the NFL was still it's boring rushing style of 3 yards and a cloud-of-dust prevelant throughout most of its history, I'd be objecting a lot more.

I was of the mind that this was more about a labor-sharing arrangement and a chase of sponsorship money from elsewhere. Of course, I can name a now dead league and a Power 5 college conference that learned chasing Chinese money didn’t exactly work as they hoped.

But if the prevailing opinion is that this changes the CFL rules, then the CFL is even worse off than I thought. The XFL can’t survive the NFL monopoly, but even worse the insurance crunch on the sport; obviously, I don’t care if Mr. Rock is involved.

 

[cutchemist42]

I was of the mind that this was more about a labor-sharing arrangement and a chase of sponsorship money from elsewhere. Of course, I can name a now dead league and a Power 5 college conference that learned chasing Chinese money didn’t exactly work as they hoped.

But if the prevailing opinion is that this changes the CFL rules, then the CFL is even worse off than I thought. The XFL can’t survive the NFL monopoly, but even worse the insurance crunch on the sport; obviously, I don’t care if Mr. Rock is involved.

They lost about $80 million last year. Not trying to politicize this but the Federal government is more cautious about Covid than a majority of State governments. The word is that even with vaccines, the Feds are not letting the CanPL or CFl have paid attendance for a 2nd straight year. It's why the Toronto teams have pretty much already committed to full years in Florida.

I think it's a hard ask for a high expense sport to shoulder that for 2 straight years

The talk is that this partnership is Redbird Capital providing funding for the CFL to play this year in return for a partnership in 2022.

I guess the next few weeks will be interesting.

 

[Cacciaguida]

If the XFL picked better markets instead of piggybacking already taken NFL markets I'd have more hope.

Orlando instead of Tampa Bay, Rochester instead of New York, San Diego instead of LA, San Antonio instead of Houston, Connecticut, Portland, Virginia, Sacramento, Oakland and Birmingham. St Louis is the only real market I have any interest as a CFL fan. All those other markets are already taken by more interesting (and flat out better) NFL teams.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

They lost about $80 million last year. Not trying to politicize this but the Federal government is more cautious about Covid than a majority of State governments. The word is that even with vaccines, the Feds are not letting the CanPL or CFl have paid attendance for a 2nd straight year. It's why the Toronto teams have pretty much already committed to full years in Florida.

I think it's a hard ask for a high expense sport to shoulder that for 2 straight years

The talk is that this partnership is Redbird Capital providing funding for the CFL to play this year in return for a partnership in 2022.

I guess the next few weeks will be interesting.

How did they lose that much when presumably, they didn't have to pay players because there was no season?

 

[PCSPounder]

If the XFL picked better markets instead of piggybacking already taken NFL markets I'd have more hope.

Orlando instead of Tampa Bay, Rochester instead of New York, San Diego instead of LA, San Antonio instead of Houston, Connecticut and Birmingham. St Louis is the only real market I have any interest as a CFL fan. All those other markets are already taken by more interesting (and flat out better) NFL teams.

If you’re not making TV money for football, you’re not making money. MLS would get better ratings than an XFL Birmingham v Rochester.

On that note:
Consider Orlando a burned market.
Any stadium less than 30,000 is too small because of football economics (though, IMO, any stadium bigger than 25,000 is too big because of supply and demand). No Rochester. No San Diego for a couple years.

 

[Cacciaguida]

If you’re not making TV money for football, you’re not making money. MLS would get better ratings than an XFL Birmingham v Rochester.

On that note:
Consider Orlando a burned market.
Any stadium less than 30,000 is too small because of football economics (though, IMO, any stadium bigger than 25,000 is too big because of supply and demand). No Rochester. No San Diego for a couple years.

Orlando and San Diego were few of the only valuable AAF markets.

I just don't see people watching the XFL over the NFL. Maybe if you go into untapped markets but even then it's been tried.

I also don't see the CFL ditching everything that made it work for an unproven XFL.

I just wonder if the CFL will ever get to Halifax or Quebec City. So much for growing.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Orlando and San Diego were few of the only valuable AAF markets.

I just don't see people watching the XFL over the NFL. Maybe if you go into untapped markets but even then it's been tried.

I also don't see the CFL ditching everything that made it work for an unproven XFL.

I just wonder if the CFL will ever get to Halifax or Quebec City. So much for growing.

Its not one or the other, XFL season does not overlap with NFL season.

And I don't believe CFL does neither.

 

[Fatass]

Its not one or the other, XFL season does not overlap with NFL season.

And I don't believe CFL does neither.

CFL starts mid June , and awards Grey Cup first week of November, so there is overlap with the NFL.