Central

[BK]

2018: Minnesota 253 GF, Chicago 229 GF
2017: Minnesota 266 GF, Chicago 244 GF

Just stop... Minnesota is a better all around team then Chicago, but they are ONLY good for the regular season. I'd take our roster just because we have Patrick Kane, a legit game breaker.

The Hawks were a better team than MN in 2017 with basically the same goal gap in 2018. The stats you linked don't really help your argument.

You should have linked GA if you were going that route but you didn't.

 

[BK]

How is Greenway better?
Greenway has a total of 6 NHL games under his belt. Point there is you can't say one is better than the other when you haven't seen either of them play in the NHL.
I would take Hayden over Foligno all day.

Greenway is better.

 

[Hawkaholic]

2018: Minnesota 253 GF, Chicago 229 GF
2017: Minnesota 266 GF, Chicago 244 GF

Just stop... Minnesota is a better all around team then Chicago, but they are ONLY good for the regular season. I'd take our roster just because we have Patrick Kane, a legit game breaker.

To add:

ESG
CHI 166
MIN 166

Goals from forwards (all situations)
CHI - 195
MIN - 208

And that's with Toews and Saad career lows in goals and Staal scoring at a rate that probably isn't sustainable.
I just don't see the Wild having better forwards, nor depth.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Greenway is better.

Good argument. I mean, I'm sure you got that from his 6GP in the NHL and seeing Kahun all the time, right?

 

[Rolo]

Good argument. I mean, I'm sure you got that from his 6GP in the NHL and seeing Kahun all the time, right?

By that logic, you can argue Boqvist > Dahlin. We haven't seen them both play, right? Can't give a definitive answer yet.

Greenway is the much better prospect/player.

 

[Hawkaholic]

By that logic, you can argue Boqvist > Dahlin. We haven't seen them both play, right? Can't give a definitive answer yet.

Greenway is the much better prospect/player.

I mean, Greenway isn't a generational prospect, so that's a pretty stupid comparison. Neither has proven themselves in the NHL, and it's not like Greenway is a can't miss prospect. Kahun made a name for himself in the Olympics last year when he got 5pts in 7GP, to Greenways 1 in 5.

I'd have to watch them both for a full season before declaring who is better.

 

[BK]

Good argument. I mean, I'm sure you got that from his 6GP in the NHL and seeing Kahun all the time, right?

I mean do you want a breakdown of why because you certainly did not give one? Greenway has produced at a better rate at lower lever (minus the one olympics). Greenway has better size and has a solid skill set to go with his size. Kahun was not even a PPG player in the OHL. DK has made stride and the gap is not huge but Greenway is a better.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I mean do you want a breakdown of why because you certainly did not give one? Greenway has produced at a better rate at lower lever (minus the one olympics). Greenway has better size and has a solid skill set to go with his size. Kahun was not even a PPG player in the OHL. DK has made stride and the gap is not huge but Greenway is a better.

I mean, I did ask how, and stated that I could say Kahun was better because neither has proven themselves at the NHL level. That was kind of my point. Size means jack squat nowadays. I think Kahun has much more upside than Greenway, more skill. Talking about Kahuns OHL numbers is silly considering where he has come since then. Yakupov was a better prospect than Panarin at one point too, as were quite a few players with size and skill. Not saying Kahun is Panarin, but the unknown makes it a toss up and one you can't say with 100% certainty.

 

[BK]

I mean, Greenway isn't a generational prospect, so that's a pretty stupid comparison. Neither has proven themselves in the NHL, and it's not like Greenway is a can't miss prospect. Kahun made a name for himself in the Olympics last year when he got 5pts in 7GP, to Greenways 1 in 5.

I'd have to watch them both for a full season before declaring who is better.

Greenway is not generational but he is a well thought of prospect. You complain about small sample size then use one olympics? Nice.

 

[BK]

I mean, I did ask how, and stated that I could say Kahun was better because neither has proven themselves at the NHL level. That was kind of my point. Size means jack squat nowadays. I think Kahun has much more upside than Greenway, more skill. Talking about Kahuns OHL numbers is silly considering where he has come since then. Yakupov was a better prospect than Panarin at one point too, as were quite a few players with size and skill. Not saying Kahun is Panarin, but the unknown makes it a toss up and one you can't say with 100% certainty.

You need to compare them at similar levels and ages so it is not silly at all.

Size means much less but saying it means jack is asinine.

Greenway is a better prospect at this point but again the gap is not huge.

 

[Hawkaholic]

You need to compare them at similar levels and ages so it is not silly at all.

Size means much less but saying it means jack is asinine.

Greenway is a better prospect at this point but again the gap is not huge.

The only similar level they were at was the Olympics last year. Which has been noted already. What happened 5 years ago is pretty pointless to look back on at this point. What matters is how they look at the NHL level, which neither has proven anything.

Greenway may be a better prospect, but that means nothing when it comes to who the better player in the NHL is. No one can say for sure who the better NHL player is.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I'm not going to continue to argue about it, my main original point was, that the Wild don't have superior depth to the Hawks, which is pretty clear.

 

[BK]

The only similar level they were at was the Olympics last year. Which has been noted already. What happened 5 years ago is pretty pointless to look back on at this point. What matters is how they look at the NHL level, which neither has proven anything.

Greenway may be a better prospect, but that means nothing when it comes to who the better player in the NHL is. No one can say for sure who the better NHL player is.

Bold - Obviously but we can project them and that is what we are doing.

FWIW - I think both end up as solid middle 6 NHL players.

 

[Blackhawks]

Greenway is better yes but but Hayden is better than Foligno (and he beat the **** out of him lol).

Hayden is yet to be an NHL player ffs lmao

 

[BK]

Hayden is yet to be an NHL player ffs lmao

Hayden's production was equal to MF and he was used in a purely 4th line role while MF even got PP time (not much) and was used all over the bottom 6.

Hayden is not 100% proven and I never said that much but he is a better player than MF.

 

[Rolo]

Hayden is yet to be an NHL player ffs lmao

This lmao.

I'd be happy if Hayden became a Foligno type player (consistent 20-25pts, physical game, 2-5 fights a year)

 

[Hawkaholic]

The Hawks didn't send Hayden down because he is not an NHL player, they sent him down because they want him to be more than a 4th line player.

In Haydens limited time here, playing with Lance Bouma and Tommy Wingels, he had basically the exact same pts/gm as Foligno has had his last 3 seasons.

Hayden is already a Foligno type player.

 

[BK]

This lmao.

I'd be happy if Hayden became a Foligno type player (consistent 20-25pts, physical game, 2-5 fights a year)

Hayden is already that. If that is what you are happy with then that is your choice. Hayden should be a 32-42 point guy who can play all over the lineup.

Seems like you forgot that Hayden produced as well as MF in a much more limited role last year. lmao

 

[LordKOTL]

Sikura > Kunin
Kunitz > Fehr
Hayden > Foligno
Kahun > Greenway
Coyle > Kruger
JEE > Ejdsell

I can make it work like that too. And Fehr is not a very good 4th line guy, he is awful. And you don't know that the Wild will be sending Hendricks or JT Brown down. They could very well send Kunin down and keep one of those two.

Point is, they aren't superior at forward, it's fairly equal. Add to that that our top forwards are better, and the Hawks have a better offense. And if Crow is healthy, a better goalie.

In terms of pure, raw Team offense, the Wild went from 2.60 GF/GP in 2016 to 3.21 in 2017, to 3.05 in 2018. Meanwhile the 'hawks went from 2.85 in 2016 to 2.93 in 2017 and then crashed to 2.71 in 2018. So in terms of burying the puck Minny is better.

In terms of Shot supression, the Wild went from 28.6 SA/GP to 30.1 in 2017 to 31.3 in 2018. The 'hawks meanwhile were 30.8 in 2016 to 31.4 in 2017 and them bottomed out in 2018 with 32.9.

In terms of pure goal supression (D+G) Minny went from a GAA of 2.49 in 2016 to 2.51 in 2017 to 2.79 in 2018. The 'hawks went from 2.52 in 2016 to 2.59 in 2017 and bottomed out at 3.10 in 2018.

To add a GAA qualifer though: From October 2017 until Dec. 24 2017 the 'hawks were posting a 2.66 GAA, while the wild were at 2.92 (35 and 36 games, respectively). This marks when Crawford went down. After? Wild were 2.69 GAA. 'hawks were 3.43.

Minny as a team scores more--the numbers prove it. Their D is better AINEC. Our only saving grace is a healthy Crawford. Without that the 'hawks are pretty much dead-in-the-water barring a breakout year by the youngsters and our core finding the Fountain of Youth.

 

[Hawkaholic]

In terms of pure, raw Team offense, the Wild went from 2.60 GF/GP in 2016 to 3.21 in 2017, to 3.05 in 2018. Meanwhile the 'hawks went from 2.85 in 2016 to 2.93 in 2017 and then crashed to 2.71 in 2018. So in terms of burying the puck Minny is better.

In terms of Shot supression, the Wild went from 28.6 SA/GP to 30.1 in 2017 to 31.3 in 2018. The 'hawks meanwhile were 30.8 in 2016 to 31.4 in 2017 and them bottomed out in 2018 with 32.9.

In terms of pure goal supression (D+G) Minny went from a GAA of 2.49 in 2016 to 2.51 in 2017 to 2.79 in 2018. The 'hawks went from 2.52 in 2016 to 2.59 in 2017 and bottomed out at 3.10 in 2018.

To add a GAA qualifer though: From October 2017 until Dec. 24 2017 the 'hawks were posting a 2.66 GAA, while the wild were at 2.92 (35 and 36 games, respectively). This marks when Crawford went down. After? Wild were 2.69 GAA. 'hawks were 3.43.

Minny as a team scores more--the numbers prove it. Their D is better AINEC. Our only saving grace is a healthy Crawford. Without that the 'hawks are pretty much dead-in-the-water barring a breakout year by the youngsters and our core finding the Fountain of Youth.

The wild got 42 Gs from their D, compared to the Hawks 33. At ES, the Hawks had the same amount of goals as the Wild. Our powerplay being terrible is the only reason Minny has a better GF. That's with Staal having almost a career year, and Saad and Toews having their worst goal scoring years. I don't think anyone has argued that the Hawks have better D.

I'm arguing the Hawks forward core is better than the Wild, which I'm not sure how you could argue otherwise.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

The wild got 42 Gs from their D, compared to the Hawks 33. At ES, the Hawks had the same amount of goals as the Wild. Our powerplay being terrible is the only reason Minny has a better GF. That's with Staal having almost a career year, and Saad and Toews having their worst goal scoring years. I don't think anyone has argued that the Hawks have better D.

I'm arguing the Hawks forward core is better than the Wild, which I'm not sure how you could argue otherwise.

Don't forget that Parise only played half the season and looked excellent in the playoffs until he got hurt again. So if Parise plays the whole season that helps balance out our expected bouncebacks from Toews/Saad. And I definitely thinks Eriksson EK takes another step forward. He shot around 5%, is still only 21, and stood out when I watched Minnesota. I think he will be an above average #2 C.

Obviously, the Hawks have a better top 6 but the Wild have a better 3rd line while the Hawks look to have a better 4th line.

 

[LordKOTL]

The wild got 42 Gs from their D, compared to the Hawks 33. At ES, the Hawks had the same amount of goals as the Wild. Our powerplay being terrible is the only reason Minny has a better GF. That's with Staal having almost a career year, and Saad and Toews having their worst goal scoring years. I don't think anyone has argued that the Hawks have better D.

I'm arguing the Hawks forward core is better than the Wild, which I'm not sure how you could argue otherwise.

On paper, maybe. I'd have more faith in our forward core having a bounceback if their numbers weren't conforming to the downward trend they're on.

Call me a cynical bastage, but I think if the O proves better than Minny's next year it will be on the backs of Kane, Schmaltz, and El Gato--not Kane, Toews, and Saad...which further begs the question--if Toews and Saad (as well as the rest of the skater core not named Kane) continue their trend does Q keep up his Wile E Coyote exercise of futility and run the core roughshod like he did this past season, or does he see what the kids have got if things are the same as they've been since April 2017? I think coaching and deployment might figure into that was well next year.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Toews, Saad, Seabs, and Keith make us all eat an extra large helping of crow...but I'm not getting that vibe from them.

 

[vshun]

Think next few years both teams are out of playoffs. Crawford plays Chicago in 6th Wild in 7th, and if he does not stand on his head Chicago 7th Wild 6th. Couple of factors could change that: wheels fall of suddenly of one of the other Central teams, or Q goes and Hawks get a temporary boost from new coach, like Kings last year. Even with new coach it will not be this year plus first round exit. Even the most biased fans will have trouble to believe these teams will take on Nashville/Peg/improved Blues, and I think Colorado will be continuously improving from what we have seen last year and Stars will be good for playoff spot as long as Bishop is healthy/not injured.
As far as the most fun team to watch in Central I would go for Colorado and McKinnon. Loved how Hawks knocked off Blues last year which allowed Avs to get in playoffs, even for a short one.

 

[Rolo]

Don't forget that Parise only played half the season and looked excellent in the playoffs until he got hurt again. So if Parise plays the whole season that helps balance out our expected bouncebacks from Toews/Saad. And I definitely thinks Eriksson EK takes another step forward. He shot around 5%, is still only 21, and stood out when I watched Minnesota. I think he will be an above average #2 C.

Obviously, the Hawks have a better top 6 but the Wild have a better 3rd line while the Hawks look to have a better 4th line.

You could also argue Coyle and Nino could 'bounce-back' to their 50+ point forms too.

Plus they great young, upcoming forward talent in Kunin, Greenway, Kaprizov, JEE, Shaw

Also we can't say our 4th line is better yet.. Kunitz is 38/39 and could fall of a hill. Kruger is no guarantee to be his 'vintage form'. Edjsell/Kampf are still quite raw.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

You could also argue Coyle and Nino could 'bounce-back' to their 50+ point forms too.

Plus they great young, upcoming forward talent in Kunin, Greenway, Kaprizov, JEE, Shaw

Also we can't say our 4th line is better yet.. Kunitz is 38/39 and could fall of a hill. Kruger is no guarantee to be his 'vintage form'. Edjsell/Kampf are still quite raw.

The guide I am looking at has Foligno, Hendricks, and Kunin on the 4th line for Minnesota. I'll take Chicago's 4th line of Kunitz/Kahun/Kruger over that.