Post-Game Talk: Celebration Rock: Canucks 7, Predators 4 - Hail King Ebbetterle

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Same here, first game and what a game to remember!

Good stuff to both of you guys - hope you had a great time!

Not the cleanest win, but an entertaining game to be sure.

Plusses:

- The Twins continue to steer the ship when it comes to offense. Loving the dangles I've been seeing from them lately, especially Henrik. What a move on the penalty shot.

- Credit where it's due, Ebbett had a solid game, faceoffs notwithstanding. Drove the net on the first goal, took a huge hit to make the play on Lapierre's goal, and made a nice pass to Raymond on his.

- Raymond and, in particular, Hansen were skating miles in this game. Just terrific.

- Pinizzotto looked really good, especially in light of the fact that he arrived a few hours ahead of puckdrop and had played the night before. His first shift was his best, but he still showed some good wheels, physicality and cycling after that.

- Weise with a pretty solid game.

- On the blueline, Hamhuis, Garrison and Tanev all had strong games.

On the weak side, it wasn't a fun night to be a goalie. Luongo made some big saves, but he also let in a couple of woofers. Bieksa looked like a guy who's missed some action, Edler had an adventurous game with both good moments and bad, and Alberts continues to be the suckiest suck who ever sucked. If we're not going to stick Ballard in, at least dress Barker over Alberts.

Lapierre, apart from his goal, was pretty brutal. Bad penalty, chasing the play, not quick enough on the forecheck - it's clear that our lack of center depth is the reason for him getting more ice-time, so hopefully that can be addressed.

Wondering if Burrows is playing through an injury; the puck smarts seem to be there, but he seems a step slower than he has in recent weeks.

 

[PhilMick]

Did they let Pinizotto take the first lap alone to start the warm up?

 

[Nerve]

Also, Ebbet plays the best game of his career. Maybe people can lay off the guy a little for a few games around here, now. The expectations for this player around here are insane. We always seem to act like our 3 and 4 line guys are failures if they aren't scoring like the Sedins. HELLO... that's why they're 3rd and 4th line guys....

I noticed this as well. Then I realized that they probably reacted the same way I did. At first, I couldn't even tell how the puck was stopped. It was such a crazy save that I didn't realize how Lu made it happen.

I wasn't able to react until I saw the replay. Maybe this was the same case for the crowd.

 

[Fat Tony]

Tanev is so good. Just unreal. Unbelievable pickup for the Canucks.

In terms of durability, the opposite of Salo. Unfortunately, in terms of slapshots, also.

 

[CanuckCity]

Overall not a very impressive win. Can guarantee if we play the same way against detroit the result will not be so merry. Had a very strong first period but once again sit back in the 2nd and were lucky enough to get 2 goals on 4 shots (both of which were very lucky goals in themselves). 3rd rolls around and same situation all over again. Sitting back playing passive hockey and allow the preds to get within 1 with 4 minutes left. Now the preds goals were also very flukey but when you sit back like that, especially with how poor our shut-down game is (particularly the softness in front of the net) the other team is going to get chances. If we were playing someone better than the 30th ranked offense we could very well all be revolting on here right now. Not to mention our pp is now 0/28.

It was nice to see the boys light the lamp at home, but a bitter sweet victory to say the least. Going to need to really round out our game if we want to avenge that horrid loss to Detroit.

 

[604]

With Schneider you don't have that horrible feeling late in games that he is going to let your team down and allow a goal. With Luongo you feel like that in every game. ****, this game was 5-2 and you just knew LUongo would not be able to shut the door on this team.

I think that says more about you than the goalies themselves.

 

[enuck]

He's good at developing players who don't play a physical game. He's been terrible at developing a PWF sort to speak.

Bernier - Hands of stone and never taught him to really use his body like he did last year.
Pyatt - Another big body that didn't know how to play the body.
Oreo - 4th line guy that didn't know how to play the body.

Kassian has been playing the body on instinct moreso AV grooming him. I've said this all along and the past 5 games shows it, Kassian needs to play with decent players not Lappy and not Weise I could see him playing with Pinner at one point to see if that line can crash and bang. I recall one time last year when he just fed off the energy of everyone else just banging and he banged harder than anyone that one shift. I believe it was with Lappy .

Regardless, AV needs to learn to let the leash go and let the kids figure it out. Send the message for sitting him for a couple shifts but don't sit them for the game cause of one tiny mistake.

All the great coaches know that they're young and they'll make mistakes. It's how they rebound from it that should show a coach what they have. Don't let them sit there and dwell on their mistakes. It crushes confidence in young players.

I have always said that I compare the Lucic development curve for Kassian in terms of point production, so far he's a bit behind but that's fine.

Bernier, Pyatt and Oreo are players that had reached their potential. Bernier is playing slightly better in a different system but no other coach would have been able to develop those players beyond where they're at. AV is not a magician. I don't think AV is as punishing as posters think, he's of the mind set that you earn your way into the top lines, ie: work harder and smarter and you'll be rewarded - in the meant time it's all about whatever gives us the best chance to win.

 

[mossey3535]

Bernier, Pyatt and Oreo are players that had reached their potential. Bernier is playing slightly better in a different system but no other coach would have been able to develop those players beyond where they're at. AV is not a magician. I don't think AV is as punishing as posters think, he's of the mind set that you earn your way into the top lines, ie: work harder and smarter and you'll be rewarded - in the meant time it's all about whatever gives us the best chance to win.

The only players who have done any sort of 'earning' these days are Hansen and Tanev. Everyone else is pretty secure in their position on the team.

To my mind, I'm not sure how you and others can make statements like that when there are so many examples to the contrary. Ballard, Schroeder, Hodgson, Kassian, the revolving door on the Sedin line despite Burr being so good, all these are guys whose play didn't always warrant a demotion.

Then on the other hand you have Ebbett, Raymond (at times), Bieksa, Rome, Alberts and Barker getting opportunities seemingly no matter how badly they play.

There will always be some kind of double standard for your best players so the Sedins and Edler are somewhat excusable. But to say AV runs a meritocracy is a theoretical concept at best. In real life it looks an awful lot like bad personnel management and playing favourites.

 

[mossey3535]

Haven't read any of the other comments in this thread so I don't know if this was brought up, but did anyone else find it totally strange that Luongo made what was one of the most amazing saves of this entire Canucks season about 5 minutes into the third, and not only did the crowd not get on their feet and cheer him, they barely seemed to notice. WTF???

I mean, the Rogers area crowd "Louuuuuu"s for the most routine saves imaginable, and then Roberto dives out and stops a shot going into an empty net with the blade of his stick, and it's crickets chirping in there.

At first I thought everyone in the building missed it since it deflected off his stick and flew into the crowd, but then even with the instant replay playing on the jumbotron, there was just the slightest little crowd mumble of appreciation.

Well to be fair he put himself in a position to have to make a save like that. Take note everyone, cutting down the angle by coming way out of your crease isn't a cure-all lol.

Note that when Lu went down the guy literally only had to take a couple steps to the side to have an open net at that angle and distance.

But yeah it was pretty sick.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Well to be fair he put himself in a position to have to make a save like that. Take note everyone, cutting down the angle by coming way out of your crease isn't a cure-all lol.

Note that when Lu went down the guy literally only had to take a couple steps to the side to have an open net at that angle and distance.

But yeah it was pretty sick.

If we're talking the stick save on Weber:

Terrible positioning and he shouldn't have even had to make that save because he put himself in the worst place possible.

He got real lucky on that stick, I'm a huge Luongo fangirl but it was dumb dumb forreal.

 

[PhilMick]

The only players who have done any sort of 'earning' these days are Hansen and Tanev. Everyone else is pretty secure in their position on the team.

To my mind, I'm not sure how you and others can make statements like that when there are so many examples to the contrary. Ballard, Schroeder, Hodgson, Kassian, the revolving door on the Sedin line despite Burr being so good, all these are guys whose play didn't always warrant a demotion.

Then on the other hand you have Ebbett, Raymond (at times), Bieksa, Rome, Alberts and Barker getting opportunities seemingly no matter how badly they play.

There will always be some kind of double standard for your best players so the Sedins and Edler are somewhat excusable. But to say AV runs a meritocracy is a theoretical concept at best. In real life it looks an awful lot like bad personnel management and playing favourites.

Not so much a meritocracy as a country club

 

[Johnny Canucker]

I think that says more about you than the goalies themselves.

I honestly dont care whos in net as long as they dont let in soft goals

 

[Verviticus]

I honestly dont care whos in net as long as they dont let in soft goals

i prefer that they dont let in too many goals

 

[mossey3535]

If we're talking the stick save on Weber:

Terrible positioning and he shouldn't have even had to make that save because he put himself in the worst place possible.

He got real lucky on that stick, I'm a huge Luongo fangirl but it was dumb dumb forreal.

Yeah for sure, I just wanted to point out it out for all the 'derp, he's so deep in his crease on that goal' people who seem to think depth is some magical ingredient that enables guys to make saves.

When in reality depth is probably at best 3rd or 4th on your list of priorities as a goalie.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

If we're talking the stick save on Weber:

Terrible positioning and he shouldn't have even had to make that save because he put himself in the worst place possible.

He got real lucky on that stick, I'm a huge Luongo fangirl but it was dumb dumb forreal.

Agreed, good desperation but should never been in that poaition in the first place

 

[Barney Gumble]

I don't think AV is as punishing as posters think, he's of the mind set that you earn your way into the top lines, ie: work harder and smarter and you'll be rewarded - in the meant time it's all about whatever gives us the best chance to win.

In most cases.

In other cases, if he "knows" you, he's willing to give you a HUMONGOUSLY long leash (eg., Bieksa).

If he has a problem with you (for whatever reason), one mistake and your stapled to the bench (and I ain't talking about a rookie player). Eg., Ballard.

Alberts clearly doesn't give us the best chance to win (as even Barker > Alberts). He's in , because he's comfortable with him (heck knows why - guess his one or two solid hits are enough to offset the gong show that happens in our zone when he's on the ice).

 

[Toxic0n]

Right before Garrison scored that (almost) PP goal in Columbus, I texted this to my buddy. 8 more to go!

 

[Proto]

I thought it was an average effort. They scored on every chance they had early, then took their foot off the pedal and didn't push offensively at all when they got to four goals.

Luongo wasn't very good, but there were a lot of inexplicable blown coverages. I think what bothers me about this team this year is that they not only let off the gas when they have the lead, but they don't play a sound defensive game when they do. It's the worst of both worlds.

Nice to see some guys get some goals though. Maybe it will get the team kickstarted.

 

[PhilMick]

Agreed, good desperation but should never been in that poaition in the first place

Ok I just watched video of it. After reading all these reactions to it first I expected him to be out past the damn circles.

 

[quat]

If we're talking the stick save on Weber:

Terrible positioning and he shouldn't have even had to make that save because he put himself in the worst place possible.

He got real lucky on that stick, I'm a huge Luongo fangirl but it was dumb dumb forreal.

Yeah, except that Luongo, by challenging Weber, kind of forced his hand and the save wasn't really a desperation, fluke kind of lunge, save. He was almost close enough to do a poke save.

What people seem to be suggesting is, that Luongo would have been better served to stay deeper in his net, which really isn't a very good idea when facing a guy with a shot like Weber.

Luongo sort of losing his balance when he came out, initially had me being fairly critical of his positioning ... but after watching the save a couple of more times, it's much more of a smart read on the play, and one that would probably lent itself a greater probability of success.

 

[mossey3535]

Yeah, except that Luongo, by challenging Weber, kind of forced his hand and the save wasn't really a desperation, fluke kind of lunge, save. He was almost close enough to do a poke save.

What people seem to be suggesting is, that Luongo would have been better served to stay deeper in his net, which really isn't a very good idea when facing a guy with a shot like Weber.

Luongo sort of losing his balance when he came out, initially had me being fairly critical of his positioning ... but after watching the save a couple of more times, it's much more of a smart read on the play, and one that would probably lent itself a greater probability of success.

This is the worst kind of rationalization.

Except it's in the zone, and if your D loses anyone on the backdoor it's an instant goal.

I'm not saying he should be super deep, but that was overplaying it. It's one thing to come way out when you've got one guy to worry about on the rush, it's another to do it when there are multiple passing plays that are going to make you look like a moron. And Weber didn't pull a sick dangle or anything and it still got Lu in trouble. That tells you something.

When a guy has the kind of shot Weber does, being big isn't as critical because he can basically shoot in through you. Being out cuts off some spots but it also gives you less time to react.

 

[CoopALoop]

When a guy has the kind of shot Weber does, being big isn't as critical because he can basically shoot in through you. Being out cuts off some spots but it also gives you less time to react.

To be fair, not many goals when in a blocking Bfly go through you.

As well, with Weber's shot, and a lot of NHL calibre shots, reactions times are slim to none. It's why positioning is the largest factor in playing goal.

I haven't seen the play, nor the save, so I may just be talking nonsense here, but the difference for Lu to come out an extra 6"-12" and block a significant larger portion of the net over getting a half second extra reactions time (exaggeration), the safer move is taking away the net.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

If we're talking the stick save on Weber:

Terrible positioning and he shouldn't have even had to make that save because he put himself in the worst place possible.

He got real lucky on that stick, I'm a huge Luongo fangirl but it was dumb dumb forreal.

I have zero idea why he charged out so aggressively, I thought all the easy saves were in the paint .

Seriously though, all Weber had to do was keep skating and make a move around Luo and that net couldn't be more open.

 

[vanuck]

After that desperation stick save you could see Lu shaking his head at being drawn that far out.

 

[quat]

This is the worst kind of rationalization.

Except it's in the zone, and if your D loses anyone on the backdoor it's an instant goal.

I'm not saying he should be super deep, but that was overplaying it. It's one thing to come way out when you've got one guy to worry about on the rush, it's another to do it when there are multiple passing plays that are going to make you look like a moron. And Weber didn't pull a sick dangle or anything and it still got Lu in trouble. That tells you something.

When a guy has the kind of shot Weber does, being big isn't as critical because he can basically shoot in through you. Being out cuts off some spots but it also gives you less time to react.

Thanks. Weber is left untouched in the slot drifting towards the net, Luongo challenges and makes the save ... and yet according to you, it's the wrong thing to do. Got it.

You're seem to be saying that Luongo would have done the same thing regardless of the player. I disagree. Maybe he knows it's Weber, a guy who likes to shoot. Perhaps he plays it differently if it's Patrick Kane. Who knows?

Yeah, making yourself big by staying further back in the net makes a lot of sense. Your points are weak. How about a modicum of credit when it's due to a player making a great save in a difficult situation.

Nothing like ripping a player for making the best of a bad situation. lol