Cchl2

[ottawafan66]

The HEO presentation stated fees $4,700-$5,600 including all team wear, off ice programs, ice...... All 12 teams play in same rink every Monday (one of Sensplex's) and Saturday (rotates amongst 12 teams) plus 4 hours of practice per week. This will make scouting the Min Midgets easy. This works out to 44 game regular season, apparently little or no out of town tournaments (that is a big savings for players). Budgets prepared by league executive (HEO) and all finances go through league, there is not supposed to be profit for Jr A teams.

The players will come from existing 5 Min Midget and 5 Mj Midget AAA teams, plus with the reduced # teams in Jr B there will be players available from that, which will most likely be a lot of 16/17 year olds. Also, with more teams in outlying communities more top end AA players may choose U18 since closer to home now. No import players permitted, so no USA players or out of district.

There are a lot of positives to the program, plus I am sure there will be some issues still to resolve. It seems to follow the USA model more where players play in a club system. If you are a player looking to play Jr A you will be part of the club that drafted you from Minor Midget onwards. I know when my oldest son was drafted we rarely seen the Jr A team other than at camps, now they will be working with him all the time. For the 4-6 players every birth year that end up in the OHL I do not see any negatives, the top players are always found, under this set up scouting should be even easier for the OHL scouts since all teams playing in one location.

Personally I am keeping on open mind on it. If you have questions I would recommend to reach out and ask them.

1. If there aren't any tournaments, then you are limiting players to competing against the same players for the whole season? If there actually will be tournaments, then the cost goes up. How is this a positive.

2. So the Pembroke based team will have to play all games out of the SensPlex? What about practices? This is probably the most expensive ice in Eastern Ontario. How is this a positive?

3. There is not supposed to be profit in Jr. A? Since when? I know that few teams make a profit, but they certainly try to.

4. While I see this as a positive for the Major Midget age group, I think the Minor's are getting shafted.

5. And finally, does this do away with the CCHL draft or will teams be able to draft kids out of their home area and force them to play U18 elsewhere?

IMHO.

 

[cchltier1fan]

1. If there aren't any tournaments, then you are limiting players to competing against the same players for the whole season? If there actually will be tournaments, then the cost goes up. How is this a positive.

2. So the Pembroke based team will have to play all games out of the SensPlex? What about practices? This is probably the most expensive ice in Eastern Ontario. How is this a positive?

3. There is not supposed to be profit in Jr. A? Since when? I know that few teams make a profit, but they certainly try to.

4. While I see this as a positive for the Major Midget age group, I think the Minor's are getting shafted.

5. And finally, does this do away with the CCHL draft or will teams be able to draft kids out of their home area and force them to play U18 elsewhere?

IMHO.

It is all personal opinion, playing a 40plus game schedule like a Junior league is good, saving $750 per weekend on travel is good. I do not see anyone getting shafted but that is all personal opinion, yes I agree there are pluses and minuses but IMO it is better. Players get way too wrapped up in playing Jr whether it is OHL, Jr A or Jr B. The top 5 kids that always play OHL still will, they will get seen, the kids destined for Jr A (which is a larger #) now are with their team earlier and the guys destined for Jr B are no worse off. Personally I see this leading to more local kids (not the top 5 guys) ending up in Jr A since they will get better feedback on a regular basis and from what I seen better hockey programs than they currently get in Midget.

 

[jason2020]

Anyone know what other teams besides Upper Canada will be in the new league.

 

[BigBuck]

Where are they going to find ice to practice? Currently kids from Brockville play for the Cyclones or Kings and they don't have ice in Brockville because it is not available. Someone has to be making money somewhere, Who is the CCM rep. that will be outfitting these 12 teams? I don't know why so many people put their trust in Kevin Abrams and the CCHL, They should not be calling the shots in minor hockey.

 

[ottawafan66]

Where are they going to find ice to practice? Currently kids from Brockville play for the Cyclones or Kings and they don't have ice in Brockville because it is not available. Someone has to be making money somewhere, Who is the CCM rep. that will be outfitting these 12 teams? I don't know why so many people put their trust in Kevin Abrams and the CCHL, They should not be calling the shots in minor hockey.

I was always curious about the possible kickback the CCHL was getting from CCM. Made in China garbage is what it is (only the pro's get the Canadian made product).

 

[cchltier1fan]

I was always curious about the possible kickback the CCHL was getting from CCM. Made in China garbage is what it is (only the pro's get the Canadian made product).

Now you are really grasping at straws. My oldest plays in the CCHL and nothing wrong with equipment, it is one heck of a good deal (paying $1000 for 6 good sticks, pants, gloves, helmet, visor can not be beat). If the CCHL can pass on that to any U18 players that want it then that is great. Even just buying the sticks at $113 each would be a big savings for lots of players. To many that is a plus.

Pre AAA ODMHA used to have 10-12 Minor Midget AA and Major Midget AA and the same # of kids got drafted into OHL, not sure why this proposal will make any difference.

I am sure some people will over react and take their kids to the GTHL, all the more power to them, but if you look at the history that rarely work out all that well, usually being a big fish in a small pond is better than being a small fish in a big pond.

 

[ottawafan66]

Now you are really grasping at straws. My oldest plays in the CCHL and nothing wrong with equipment, it is one heck of a good deal (paying $1000 for 6 good sticks, pants, gloves, helmet, visor can not be beat). If the CCHL can pass on that to any U18 players that want it then that is great. Even just buying the sticks at $113 each would be a big savings for lots of players. To many that is a plus.

Pre AAA ODMHA used to have 10-12 Minor Midget AA and Major Midget AA and the same # of kids got drafted into OHL, not sure why this proposal will make any difference.

I am sure some people will over react and take their kids to the GTHL, all the more power to them, but if you look at the history that rarely work out all that well, usually being a big fish in a small pond is better than being a small fish in a big pond.

So you don't think the league gets anything from CCM for exclusivity? And I was thinking more of forcing goalies to switch to an inferior product (China), versus Canadian made Vaughn.

 

[ottawafan66]

Now you are really grasping at straws. My oldest plays in the CCHL and nothing wrong with equipment, it is one heck of a good deal (paying $1000 for 6 good sticks, pants, gloves, helmet, visor can not be beat). If the CCHL can pass on that to any U18 players that want it then that is great. Even just buying the sticks at $113 each would be a big savings for lots of players. To many that is a plus.

Pre AAA ODMHA used to have 10-12 Minor Midget AA and Major Midget AA and the same # of kids got drafted into OHL, not sure why this proposal will make any difference.

I am sure some people will over react and take their kids to the GTHL, all the more power to them, but if you look at the history that rarely work out all that well, usually being a big fish in a small pond is better than being a small fish in a big pond.

It prevents the Minor Midget players from being scouted at all the top tournaments in southern Ontario. And let's face it, most of the OHL scouts spend the bulk of their time down there.

 

[Bockwinkel]

It prevents the Minor Midget players from being scouted at all the top tournaments in southern Ontario. And let's face it, most of the OHL scouts spend the bulk of their time down there.

Have heard rumblings that are there are more than a couple Ottawa area Bantam AAA players heading to the "Centre of the Hockey Universe" to play Minor Midget next season. Not sure if the reason is the new Midget league or not.

I would be curious to see the comparison in numbers between the kids drafted to the OHL when the ODMHA ran a 10-12 team Minor Midget AA league before all the kids got that extra A on the new jacket.

 

[cchltier1fan]

It prevents the Minor Midget players from being scouted at all the top tournaments in southern Ontario. And let's face it, most of the OHL scouts spend the bulk of their time down there.

Historically we have around 5 guys in each birth year that actually play in OHL out of HEO, those guys will not get overlooked. For the majority who end up in Jr A or B IMO this if anything is better.

 

[cchltier1fan]

Have heard rumblings that are there are more than a couple Ottawa area Bantam AAA players heading to the "Centre of the Hockey Universe" to play Minor Midget next season. Not sure if the reason is the new Midget league or not.

I would be curious to see the comparison in numbers between the kids drafted to the OHL when the ODMHA ran a 10-12 team Minor Midget AA league before all the kids got that extra A on the new jacket.

In the 1990 birth year pre AAA their were 27 or 28, if I remember right 13 from OVT. When AAA came in everyone thought the world was falling apart just like this, it never did. Change is not always bad, people over react so much that it is ridiculous.

 

[ottawafan66]

In the 1990 birth year pre AAA their were 27 or 28, if I remember right 13 from OVT. When AAA came in everyone thought the world was falling apart just like this, it never did. Change is not always bad, people over react so much that it is ridiculous.

I'd still like to know how a draft would work. Can't see Pembroke being able to draft a Bantam kid from Cornwall.

 

[Inkling]

What going to happen to the existing AAA organizations? (Senators AAA, Jr. 67's and the rest) Will they be able to survive with just Major Peewee and Bantam?

 

[valleydude]

What going to happen to the existing AAA organizations? (Senators AAA, Jr. 67's and the rest) Will they be able to survive with just Major Peewee and Bantam?

I expect an announcement soon that Minor Peewee and perhaps even Atom AAA is a go. For anyone clubs with locked in ice contracts, they must be sweating.

 

[Bockwinkel]

In the 1990 birth year pre AAA their were 27 or 28, if I remember right 13 from OVT. When AAA came in everyone thought the world was falling apart just like this, it never did. Change is not always bad, people over react so much that it is ridiculous.

What I see from your research is that just as many Eastern Ontario kids were drafted to the OHL when we ran AA programs as they do today with the extra 'A' on the track suit. Just goes to show what many scouts have been saying for years : "if you are a good player they will find you."

 

[24instigating]

What I see from your research is that just as many Eastern Ontario kids were drafted to the OHL when we ran AA programs as they do today with the extra 'A' on the track suit. Just goes to show what many scouts have been saying for years : "if you are a good player they will find you."

Maybe, but none of those prior years had minor aged kids playing with majors. Losing ice time to older kids = development & opportunity??

 

[hawkeye guy]

Maybe, but none of those prior years had minor aged kids playing with majors. Losing ice time to older kids = development & opportunity??

I highly doubt the 17 year old will get more ice in general….playoffs, 1 goal game MAYBE. But I'm sure with this being a pilot and all eyes on them the ice will be fairly even. There are a lot of good 15 year olds and the CCHL will still want the same draft numbers to the OHL so I think you are looking for negatives. Keep trying, only time will tell.

 

[24instigating]

I highly doubt the 17 year old will get more ice in general….playoffs, 1 goal game MAYBE. But I'm sure with this being a pilot and all eyes on them the ice will be fairly even. There are a lot of good 15 year olds and the CCHL will still want the same draft numbers to the OHL so I think you are looking for negatives. Keep trying, only time will tell.

That is funny. I thought this was a place for debate?

Enlighten me. Why is this setup better for a minor midget player than the old system?

 

[goodtimes]

I highly doubt the 17 year old will get more ice in general….playoffs, 1 goal game MAYBE. But I'm sure with this being a pilot and all eyes on them the ice will be fairly even. There are a lot of good 15 year olds and the CCHL will still want the same draft numbers to the OHL so I think you are looking for negatives. Keep trying, only time will tell.

When my kid was in Midget coaches always played older players more in the name of winning a game. Its what they do. No matter who we where players, the 17 year olds always got more ice, this will be no different, worse even if these teams are directly tied to the CCHL and these coaches will be trying to impress brass with win/loss records.

Im happy my kid is out of the Midget league, we'd be moving, dislike having the CCHL run something that should be independent, it helps them way more then any kid.

And yes, my son's friends are saying they are moving to other areas, Toronto, Kingston, York Simcoe

 

[cchltier1fan]

When my kid was in Midget coaches always played older players more in the name of winning a game. Its what they do. No matter who we where players, the 17 year olds always got more ice, this will be no different, worse even if these teams are directly tied to the CCHL and these coaches will be trying to impress brass with win/loss records.

Im happy my kid is out of the Midget league, we'd be moving, dislike having the CCHL run something that should be independent, it helps them way more then any kid.

And yes, my son's friends are saying they are moving to other areas, Toronto, Kingston, York Simcoe

How stupid can people be, moving their kid and/or their family over hockey, minor midget parents are so delusional, the reality is kids want to stay where they are with their friends. The top kids will get found regardless of where they are for the OHL, anyone doing it is overreacting to change. If you look at the history of the kids that move most fall off when they move, they go from being top dog on their team to being a role player on the GTHL team..... I expect some of the crazies to move year one, then all will calm down for the second season.

People really do not get it, CCHL teams will actually be more concerned about the younger kids, most top 17 year olds are already playing either Junior A or B, the future for Junior A is more likely the 15 & 16 year olds. My guess is you will see a lot more rolling of lines than in the past at Midget, as you said yourself Midget was not a good experience for your son. CCHL management will not care about the U18 teams winning or losing as much as they will want the kids to improve in order to make Junior A. The more local players capable of playing Junior A the better it is for CCHL teams. My guess

Midget AAA were the ones worried about winning, not developing. They had no reason to develop since the majority of the players are leaving for Junior the next season or finished playing. If you watched a minor midget game most teams focused on 2 lines, in some cases one line played every other shift.

I personally am willing to wait and see, the old system did not work, especially at Major Midget. Most of the rest of North America follows this model so why no give it a try.

 

[BigBuck]

How stupid can people be, moving their kid and/or their family over hockey, minor midget parents are so delusional, the reality is kids want to stay where they are with their friends. The top kids will get found regardless of where they are for the OHL, anyone doing it is overreacting to change. If you look at the history of the kids that move most fall off when they move, they go from being top dog on their team to being a role player on the GTHL team..... I expect some of the crazies to move year one, then all will calm down for the second season.

People really do not get it, CCHL teams will actually be more concerned about the younger kids, most top 17 year olds are already playing either Junior A or B, the future for Junior A is more likely the 15 & 16 year olds. My guess is you will see a lot more rolling of lines than in the past at Midget, as you said yourself Midget was not a good experience for your son. CCHL management will not care about the U18 teams winning or losing as much as they will want the kids to improve in order to make Junior A. The more local players capable of playing Junior A the better it is for CCHL teams. My guess

Midget AAA were the ones worried about winning, not developing. They had no reason to develop since the majority of the players are leaving for Junior the next season or finished playing. If you watched a minor midget game most teams focused on 2 lines, in some cases one line played every other shift.

I personally am willing to wait and see, the old system did not work, especially at Major Midget. Most of the rest of North America follows this model so why no give it a try.

The CCHL is concerned about 1 thing and that is $$$$$$...They will be the ones collecting the cash.

 

[goodtimes]

How stupid can people be, moving their kid and/or their family over hockey, minor midget parents are so delusional, the reality is kids want to stay where they are with their friends. The top kids will get found regardless of where they are for the OHL, anyone doing it is overreacting to change. If you look at the history of the kids that move most fall off when they move, they go from being top dog on their team to being a role player on the GTHL team..... I expect some of the crazies to move year one, then all will calm down for the second season.

Probably wise to wait and find out the rational about why players are moving before calling anyone 'delusional', delusional is an emotional, reactionary word, and unless you're personally involved with one side or the other im not sure why one would be so emotional about it. When you sit back and find out why, their concerns, it makes sense for them. Either way, make no mistake, if this moves forward (And I understand its being appealed and most parents are attempting to vote it down) players will leave, alot of them, and they may never come back depending on their skill level. Alot of them are skipping the 'mandatory' pre-draft showcase this weekend as a form of protest (at least a few elite guys are).

There's alot of concerns regarding the motives and control that the CCHL want, why they are doing this, and who stands to benefit. The CCHL isn't doing this out of the kindness of their heart, their time invested will have to pay off somehow. While its a small thing, alot are also upset about the elimination of tournament play. While the 'all star' team will be playing in a small amount of tournaments, its a fraction of what they have done in the past. The CCHL is pandering to the 'elite' 2000s with the all star team, but snubbing the secondary players, which isn't what this should be about IMO. What other 'mandadotry' events will these players now have to go to?

Midget was fine for my son, he moved on to Tier 2 after a year, he was lucky his coach didn't run the 17 year olds hard, but most did, and without any actual proof its hard to understand why it would change. Winning in minor hockey has always, always trumped development, even in other areas where Midget teams are unofficially feeder teams for Tier 2 teams they always give 17 year olds way more ice.

 

[24instigating]

I don't think this would be quite as controversial if the rest of the province is doing it too. I've read lots of "most of the rest of North America is doing it, so why don't we?" comments. That statement ignores a few things in my mind. In other provinces, etc there is only one midget system - unified across the province. We will be implementing something different than everyone else in Ontario. It is also a model that has been tried in the province already and failed (NOHA). They went back to a minor midget system earlier this month.

 

[valleydude]

How stupid can people be, moving their kid and/or their family over hockey, minor midget parents are so delusional, the reality is kids want to stay where they are with their friends. The top kids will get found regardless of where they are for the OHL, anyone doing it is overreacting to change. If you look at the history of the kids that move most fall off when they move, they go from being top dog on their team to being a role player on the GTHL team..... I expect some of the crazies to move year one, then all will calm down for the second season.

People really do not get it, CCHL teams will actually be more concerned about the younger kids, most top 17 year olds are already playing either Junior A or B, the future for Junior A is more likely the 15 & 16 year olds. My guess is you will see a lot more rolling of lines than in the past at Midget, as you said yourself Midget was not a good experience for your son. CCHL management will not care about the U18 teams winning or losing as much as they will want the kids to improve in order to make Junior A. The more local players capable of playing Junior A the better it is for CCHL teams. My guess

Midget AAA were the ones worried about winning, not developing. They had no reason to develop since the majority of the players are leaving for Junior the next season or finished playing. If you watched a minor midget game most teams focused on 2 lines, in some cases one line played every other shift.

I personally am willing to wait and see, the old system did not work, especially at Major Midget. Most of the rest of North America follows this model so why no give it a try.

I can't say as I disagree, but using this argument to support CCHL II and U18 is just as crazy. Who do you think makes up the majority of CCHL I rosters now, and who do you think their target market is for their new clubs. Ottawa kids, Eastern Ontario kids ? Dream on.

60% of the CPC are not from Eastern Ontario. It will be a similar look to these new teams in 10 years. Americans will pay far more money to play here than local kids.

 

[ottawafan66]

I can't say as I disagree, but using this argument to support CCHL II and U18 is just as crazy. Who do you think makes up the majority of CCHL I rosters now, and who do you think their target market is for their new clubs. Ottawa kids, Eastern Ontario kids ? Dream on.

60% of the CPC are not from Eastern Ontario. It will be a similar look to these new teams in 10 years. Americans will pay far more money to play here than local kids.

And at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.