CBJ trade assets

LoneFunyan

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How is that any different than the last 20 years though?

It's not - we've been on this hamster treadmill for 20 years. I think the only argument against saying we're in a rebuild is to ask when were we ever built?

Now I do think if we're going to acquire a true 1C it has to be via trade to a team against the cap or just wanting to rid itself of a long contract.

Almost by definition, a team wanting to get rid of a long contract is moving an underperforming player, so you're getting someone who is risky in some regard. And while we've heard over and over that cash strapped teams will be forced to do this or that, it rarely (and I'm only using "rarely" as a qualifier because I don't want to get trapped in the internet "Aha! You said never and I found one extraordinary situation therefore you are dumb and your point is dumb" phenomenon) comes to pass. When was the last time a team traded a top-flight player, at any position, simply because the cap forced their hand? Now extend that question to a center.

We see movement of lesser players due to cap all the time, but I just don't see a lot of trades that fit the bill of "good player we'd love to keep but can't because of cap". Flat cap may change things, sure, but I'm not betting on it.

I don't know, I just don't see any scenario where we acquire the type of player we need (a la Eichel) without creating at least a few roster holes and significant holes in the farm system and futures.

Honestly, though, I think any speculation about Eichel in regards to the CBJ is probably p***ing in the wind, because there are too many other teams that would be able to offer better packages.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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I think where we're at loggerheads is that we have different opinions on how good the team is / how many players away we are. I think we are what we saw this year - which is a pretty bad team. I know there are craptons of factors that made this a weird year, but I just look at the roster and very little of it inspires confidence that we're better than what we showed. Based on you thinking that Eichel would re-open our Cup window, you are probably in the opposite camp.

That difference in vision means completely different outlooks on how you fix things and I don't think the perspectives can be squared against each other. Which is to say: we'll have to agree to disagree and see how things play out.

I think I know CBJW's position well enough to know that he doesn't actually think Eichel by himself opens up a cup window. It's the long term presence of Eichel and Z, Seth, Bjorky, and I think Elvis that gives you a framework to build around. You can fit players into proper roles and more easily attract the supporting cast needed to actually open the cup window. Jarmo would still need to make a lot of good decisions, there's no auto-pilot, but it certainly opens up the possibility.
 
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majormajor

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Honestly, though, I think any speculation about Eichel in regards to the CBJ is probably p***ing in the wind, because there are too many other teams that would be able to offer better packages.

They can offer more but they actually have to want him more to do that. L.A. and Anaheim, for example, aren't in enough of a hurry.
 

koteka

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They can offer more but they actually have to want him more to do that. L.A. and Anaheim, for example, aren't in enough of a hurry.

LA could be a player. They have enough assets, Kopitar, Doughty, and the weakest division and weaker conference. Maybe you trade Byfield plus 2021 first or another top prospect and go for it. They’d have two top centers, Brown (would have been 4th in scoring on CBJ), Iafallo (would have been 4th in scoring on CBJ), Kempe (you’re not going to believe this, but yet another guy who would have been 4th in scoring on CBJ), and plenty of young recent 1st and 2nd round forward picks. That team would be arguably the second best team in the Pacific with league average goal tending. (Don’t tell me Edmonton is much better. Remember when they had to play American teams?)
 

majormajor

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LA could be a player. They have enough assets, Kopitar, Doughty, and the weakest division and weaker conference. Maybe you trade Byfield plus 2021 first or another top prospect and go for it. They’d have two top centers, Brown (would have been 4th in scoring on CBJ), Iafallo (would have been 4th in scoring on CBJ), Kempe (you’re not going to believe this, but yet another guy who would have been 4th in scoring on CBJ), and plenty of young recent 1st and 2nd round forward picks. That team would be arguably the second best team in the Pacific with league average goal tending. (Don’t tell me Edmonton is much better. Remember when they had to play American teams?)

I remember last year - the Oilers had a strong regular season, maybe a 100 pt pace. Yes they're better. The one normal division weaker than the North is the Pacific.

The Kings could make that third seed in the Pacific but they're not ready to be actually good. They have tons of young players that will be contributing in a few years, until then it's still a weakish team. They have the currency to get Eichel but I really doubt they're feeling the time is now to spend their chips. That's what their fans are all saying.

Think about it this way - getting Eichel feels almost existential to the Jackets. The Kings could get him or they could just get better by waiting a bit longer. They won't want him enough to outbid a desperate club.
 

koteka

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I remember last year - the Oilers had a strong regular season, maybe a 100 pt pace. Yes they're better. The one normal division weaker than the North is the Pacific.

The Kings could make that third seed in the Pacific but they're not ready to be actually good. They have tons of young players that will be contributing in a few years, until then it's still a weakish team. They have the currency to get Eichel but I really doubt they're feeling the time is now to spend their chips. That's what their fans are all saying.

Think about it this way - getting Eichel feels almost existential to the Jackets. The Kings could get him or they could just get better by waiting a bit longer. They won't want him enough to outbid a desperate club.

The problem with the Kings is all the good players are the wrong side of 30 or are high draft picks with lots of potential. Adding Eichel spreads it out more. And once Brown is UFA and that asshat Carter’s salary are off the books, they could add another mid 20s good forward. That team starts to look really promising with a better spread in ages / contracts.

Byfield could be great, or he could be ok, or he could bust. I preferred Stützle myself because Byfield was too high risk/high reward. You really don’t want to miss on the second pick in the draft. Let a team like the Sabres take the risk. Meanwhile LA gets a guy they can market now and Kopitar can be a great 2C for the next few years.

I don’t think Eichel is existential for the Jackets. I think he is the Hail Mary pass which is more likely to hit the ground than be caught for a touchdown.
 

majormajor

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The problem with the Kings is all the good players are the wrong side of 30 or are high draft picks with lots of potential. Adding Eichel spreads it out more. And once Brown is UFA and that asshat Carter’s salary are off the books, they could add another mid 20s good forward. That team starts to look really promising with a better spread in ages / contracts.

Byfield could be great, or he could be ok, or he could bust. I preferred Stützle myself because Byfield was too high risk/high reward. You really don’t want to miss on the second pick in the draft. Let a team like the Sabres take the risk. Meanwhile LA gets a guy they can market now and Kopitar can be a great 2C for the next few years.

I don’t think Eichel is existential for the Jackets. I think he is the Hail Mary pass which is more likely to hit the ground than be caught for a touchdown.

I gather from some Kings fans that they don't have much faith in their old veterans anymore, they're just as content to let them retire in a couple years and open a "fresh window". I don't think they want to smooth it out.

Pretty interesting concept from a Kings fan on the mains:

CBJ - Eichel
L.A. - Werenski
Buff - picks and prospects from both. (I suggested Turcotte+ from L.A. and the 5th/6th OA from the Jackets).

I can see why Kings fans might prefer this - they're willing wait on Byfield so no need for Eichel at center, but they don't have anyone like Werenski.

Would the Jackets do this - Werenski and the top 1st for Eichel?
 

koteka

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I gather from some Kings fans that they don't have much faith in their old veterans anymore, they're just as content to let them retire in a couple years and open a "fresh window". I don't think they want to smooth it out.

Pretty interesting concept from a Kings fan on the mains:

CBJ - Eichel
L.A. - Werenski
Buff - picks and prospects from both. (I suggested Turcotte+ from L.A. and the 5th/6th OA from the Jackets).

I can see why Kings fans might prefer this - they're willing wait on Byfield so no need for Eichel at center, but they don't have anyone like Werenski.

Would the Jackets do this - Werenski and the top 1st for Eichel?

I might prefer to trade Werenski for Turcotte +, depending on the + and use the 5OA on a Werenski replacement.
 

majormajor

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I might prefer to trade Werenski for Turcotte +, depending on the + and use the 5OA on a Werenski replacement.

I get the idea if we're blowing it all up. But if we're not, then I'm mulling this trade concept over.
 

koteka

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I get the idea if we're blowing it all up. But if we're not, then I'm mulling this trade concept over.

My number one question on Eichel, which is bigger than his neck, is does he want to be in Columbus. I am not asking him to love Columbus or be Nick Foligno, but if he is forcing himself out of a bad situation, are we going to get a disgruntled Jeff Carter type guy or someone who is happy for a new start and wants to build a winner. And then, I go to question number two, which is how healthy will he be.
 

majormajor

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My number one question on Eichel, which is bigger than his back, is does he want to be in Columbus. I am not asking him to love Columbus or be Nick Foligno, but if he is forcing himself out of a bad situation, are we going to get a disgruntled Jeff Carter type guy or someone who is happy for a new start and wants to build a winner.

He's coming from hell. I'm not worried about it.
 
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Cyclones Rock

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My number one question on Eichel, which is bigger than his neck, is does he want to be in Columbus. I am not asking him to love Columbus or be Nick Foligno, but if he is forcing himself out of a bad situation, are we going to get a disgruntled Jeff Carter type guy or someone who is happy for a new start and wants to build a winner. And then, I go to question number two, which is how healthy will he be.

I think it's a very valid question. My gut says that Eichel is a PITA who isn't the guy you want to build your team around. I remember him getting pissed in his draft year when all the talk was about McDavid being a generational player while the word on Eichel was that he was just very good. I find it bothersome that he couldn't just come to terms with the fact that McDavid was a special player who was much better than he was. There's being competitive and there's being straight egomaniacal.

I think he'd be a very poor candidate to lead a team from the bottom to the top. He seems to be a guy who probably would be a better fit for a situation like Tavares and the Leafs where Tavares-who would be the 1C on most teams-is second (or third behind Marner) fiddle on the Leafs even though he's Captain.
 

Jan

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I gather from some Kings fans that they don't have much faith in their old veterans anymore, they're just as content to let them retire in a couple years and open a "fresh window". I don't think they want to smooth it out.

Pretty interesting concept from a Kings fan on the mains:

CBJ - Eichel
L.A. - Werenski
Buff - picks and prospects from both. (I suggested Turcotte+ from L.A. and the 5th/6th OA from the Jackets).

I can see why Kings fans might prefer this - they're willing wait on Byfield so no need for Eichel at center, but they don't have anyone like Werenski.

Would the Jackets do this - Werenski and the top 1st for Eichel?
I can of history see why you want Eichel.

But with his injury, I would not trade for him, as things is not.
It would simply be very risky and that is a risk we do not need to make.
 
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VT

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I can of history see why you want Eichel.

But with his injury, I would not trade for him, as things is not.
It would simply be very risky and that is a risk we do not need to make.
Plus Vegas shows 1C center isn`t important.
 

CBJx614

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I think it's a very valid question. My gut says that Eichel is a PITA who isn't the guy you want to build your team around. I remember him getting pissed in his draft year when all the talk was about McDavid being a generational player while the word on Eichel was that he was just very good. I find it bothersome that he couldn't just come to terms with the fact that McDavid was a special player who was much better than he was. There's being competitive and there's being straight egomaniacal.

I think he'd be a very poor candidate to lead a team from the bottom to the top. He seems to be a guy who probably would be a better fit for a situation like Tavares and the Leafs where Tavares-who would be the 1C on most teams-is second (or third behind Marner) fiddle on the Leafs even though he's Captain.
We don't need him to be the leader if we have Jones still. If Jones extends he's getting the C and likely Boone and Bjork get the A's. If Eichel wants a leadership role he'll have to earn it.
 

CBJx614

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Plus Vegas shows 1C center isn`t important.
I don't think we necessarily need a bonafide 1C, but I think either way we need two more centers. One who has 1C potential and another to compete with Roslovic for the 2C spot. Players get hot and cold and it's obvious the Roslovic isn't gonna be a 1C and Domi definitely isn't. We need someone to force Domi to the wing and some more depth so we can roll all 4 lines.
 

Long Live Lyle

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Plus Vegas shows 1C center isn`t important.

If you go back to the first lockout and look at the past 15 Stanley Cup champions, literally all of them had at least one center that is legitimately/projected to be at least in the HOF discussion besides maybe O’Reilly, and he could potentially still get there if he has a good end to his career, plus he played at an elite level that season in the regular season/playoffs.

It’s not “impossible” (we almost did it ourselves in 2019 with a few different breaks) but you make it very hard on yourself without a great 1C.
 

Jan

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If you go back to the first lockout and look at the past 15 Stanley Cup champions, literally all of them had at least one center that is legitimately/projected to be at least in the HOF discussion besides maybe O’Reilly, and he could potentially still get there if he has a good end to his career, plus he played at an elite level that season in the regular season/playoffs.

It’s not “impossible” (we almost did it ourselves in 2019 with a few different breaks) but you make it very hard on yourself without a great 1C.
I mostly agree on what you write.

But then I have to say, that after all the experiment with Laine, Domi did well as the first line center in the last few games.
It is so difficilt to evaluate any players after this season.
Looking on this season alone, you could come to the conclusion that Seth Jones was a somewhat low level defensive player, with almost no offensive upsides.

Only player that did about as well as last season is Bjorkstrand and somewhat Atkinson.
Roslovic did some what improved this season, but certainly not defensively.
Domi did quite well in many of the games, after we was out of the play off race. That is promissing.

So I will say that we are somewhat in the blind, about how good every individual on this team is.

It is certain that both Zeth and Zack need to bounce back.
Domi need keep improving on the late games
Laine, need to move back from the ECHL level and show he is an NHL player.

We can only realistically expect two player through trade or free agent, and only if we are luckily.
Problem is that we do not have much in the way of trade assets, that I would like to parten with.
We will have to, some what, win the draft lottery, to realistically gain one from the draft helping in the coming season.
I would trade for a good 1C for Laine, as I am not to sure how good he will be. Laine seems to missing some motivation and that is a concern to me.
But there maybe some trade value in Jenner, that we could part with, but we need some of the leadership to return. If Foglino would return, I may trade Jenner.
All depending on the return, doesn't it.

Except Jenner, I would believe that teams would be interested in Jones, Werenski and of cause Bjorkstrand. Here the question would be, how interested would we be in trading away those assets?

Funny, I am no that concern of what Seattle would gain from the Blue Jacket. No the concern here is who will replace those players? They may not be the best of what we have, but that could probably also be said about some of those that would have to replace those taken.

There is one good thing about this season, being as bad as it was. It lead directly to trading out many assets, that we may have else of consider protecting. Now the list of who really needs to be protected has become much shorter.

However, the real question here is, who do we have, that has are a real trade asset? except for Jenner, Bjorkstrand, Jones and Werenski? Trading the any of the three later, would really mean a rebuild!

So Who?
 
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EspenK

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If you go back to the first lockout and look at the past 15 Stanley Cup champions, literally all of them had at least one center that is legitimately/projected to be at least in the HOF discussion besides maybe O’Reilly, and he could potentially still get there if he has a good end to his career, plus he played at an elite level that season in the regular season/playoffs.

It’s not “impossible” (we almost did it ourselves in 2019 with a few different breaks) but you make it very hard on yourself without a great 1C.

I agree with your first paragraph but the second :huh:/ We almost did it in 2019? Just fell 3 series short. :dunno:
 

Long Live Lyle

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I agree with your first paragraph but the second :huh:/ We almost did it in 2019? Just fell 3 series short. :dunno:


Worded it poorly, obviously had a ways to go, but Boston was a tight series and if we won it, we're playing St. Louis in the SCF, who I think we matched up well with it.

Regardless, though, if anything, that emphasizes the importance of having a great 1C and how it could make the difference. If you replaced either PLD or Duchene with a top-15 C in the NHL (and kept one of the two as the 2C) I imagine we do win the Boston series and then...
 

Cowumbus

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I mostly agree on what you write.

But then I have to say, that after all the experiment with Laine, Domi did well as the first line center in the last few games.
It is so difficilt to evaluate any players after this season.
Looking on this season alone, you could come to the conclusion that Seth Jones was a somewhat low level defensive player, with almost no offensive upsides.

Only player that did about as well as last season is Bjorkstrand and somewhat Atkinson.
Roslovic did some what improved this season, but certainly not defensively.
Domi did quite well in many of the games, after we was out of the play off race. That is promissing.

So I will say that we are somewhat in the blind, about how good every individual on this team is.

It is certain that both Zeth and Zack need to bounce back.
Domi need keep improving on the late games
Laine, need to move back from the ECHL level and show he is an NHL player.

We can only realistically expect two player through trade or free agent, and only if we are luckily.
Problem is that we do not have much in the way of trade assets, that I would like to parten with.
We will have to, some what, win the draft lottery, to realistically gain one from the draft helping in the coming season.
I would trade for a good 1C for Laine, as I am not to sure how good he will be. Laine seems to missing some motivation and that is a concern to me.
But there maybe some trade value in Jenner, that we could part with, but we need some of the leadership to return. If Foglino would return, I may trade Jenner.
All depending on the return, doesn't it.

Except Jenner, I would believe that teams would be interested in Jones, Werenski and of cause Bjorkstrand. Here the question would be, how interested would we be in trading away those assets?

Funny, I am no that concern of what Seattle would gain from the Blue Jacket. No the concern here is who will replace those players? They may not be the best of what we have, but that could probably also be said about some of those that would have to replace those taken.

There is one good thing about this season, being as bad as it was. It lead directly to trading out many assets, that we may have else of consider protecting. Now the list of who really needs to be protected has become much shorter.

However, the real question here is, who do we have, that has are a real trade asset? except for Jenner, Bjorkstrand, Jones and Werenski? Trading the any of the three later, would really mean a rebuild!

So Who?
We don’t have much. 90/70, Tor 1st, TB 1st, one of 52/42/19. Maybe 14?
 

EspenK

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Sep 25, 2011
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However, the real question here is, who do we have, that has are a real trade asset? except for Jenner, Bjorkstrand, Jones and Werenski? Trading the any of the three later, would really mean a rebuild!

So Who?

Laine but there is a risk in giving him up. I'd do it if I could get a good return for him.
Question is are there any GM's out there who would take him after last season? Having JD rejoin the Jackets makes it harder to predict/guess who, if anybody, will be traded.

I think one of the goalies are traded but not expecting much of a return unless they are part of a package.

Domi. See Laine above. Add in fact he will be UFA after next season. I'd keep him and hope for a resurgence under new coach.

I'd trade Jenner but he is UFA so he is most likely extended or offered up at trade deadline.


Jones and Werenski are possibilities if they don't agree to re-up. If they don't I really hope they aren't kept in another ill advised, all in quest for the Cup.

JD., he of brick by brick fame will probably want to keep all the draft picks unless one of the lower are added as a sweetner to a package deal.

Bottom line I don't see the Jackets being able to trade from a position of strength.
 
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VT

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The question, do we need 1C? How I wrote it isn`t necessary. Look at Vegas and Wilds TOP 9.

Vegas:
Tuch--Stephenson--Stone
Marchessault--Karlsson--Smith
Janmark--Roy--Kolesar

+ Pacioretty

Minnesota
Greenway--Eriksson Ek--Foligno
Kaprizov--Hartman--Zuccarello
Parise--Rask--Fiala

but they are quite good defensmen

Vegas
Martinez, Pietrangelo
McNabb, Theodore

Minnesota
Suter, Spurgeon
Brodin, Dumba

That`s way I think 1C is wasted money. Especially like Eichel.
 

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