Prospect Info: CBJ Prospect Thread IX

[ViD]

Voronkov started the season with 2+1 in 4 games, Marchenko is pointless in 3 games (he played only 11 minutes in last game)

Let me remind you, Voronkov is a 6’4 190 lbs center, let’s hope he develops into a true second line center man.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Here we are again, my top 20 prospect rankings. The past few years I have gotten pretty good at picking the "potential riser" among our prospect pools going into seasons (Marchenko this year, Bemstrom last year). Hopefully we can continue that trend, however I won't be doing the riser until I post my new list AFTER the draft.

Before getting started on my top 20 prospects (pre draft), here's my last list which was after last years draft in June.

1. Alex Texier
2. Elvis Merzlikins
3. Emil Bemstrom
4. Vladislav Gavrikov
5. Liam Foudy
6. Andrew Peeke
7. Veini Vehvilainen
8. Danill Tarasov
9. Kirill Marchenko
10. Kevin Stenlund
11. Eric Robinson
12. Gabriel Carlsson
13. Jakob Lilja
14. Trey Fix-Wolansky
15. Eric Hjorth
16. Kole Sherwood
17. Dmitri Voronkov
18. Tim Berni
19. Markus Karlberg
20.Paul Bittner

Players to watch: Peeke, Vehvilainen, Marchenko, and Hjorth

Biggest Potential Riser: Marchenko

As always, I use the same criteria. How good they are now, how good they can be, and the likelihood they get there. These are all, of course, in my opinion.

*Keep in mind my criteria to be a prospect might be different than others. My criteria is you are considered a prospect if you have less than 82 games played in the NHL as a skater, a full season, or 30 starts as a goalie. Also anyone at or over the age of 25 will either be considered graduated or not a true prospect anymore.*

Graduated: Texier, Merzlikins, Gavrikov, Robinson

1. Liam Foudy
2. Emil Bemstrom
3. Kirill Marchenko
4. Andrew Peeke
5. Daniil Tarasov
6. Dmitri Voronkov
7. Kevin Stenlund
8. Veini Vehvilainen
9. Eric Hjorth
10. Gabriel Carlsson
11. Trey Fix-Wolansky
12. Mattis Kivlenieks
13. Kole Sherwood
14. Tim Berni
15. Markus Karlberg
16. Ryan MacInnis
17. Peter Thome
18. Tyler Angle
19. Kale Howarth
20. Robbie Stucker

Foudy edges out Bemstrom for the #1 spot...but just barely. I think Bemstrom has the higher end potential out of the two players by a WIDE margin on the offensive end. But at the same time, Foudy holds a wide margin on the defensive end, and I think is far more likely to reach his top potential than Bemstrom. Foudy was good this year all around, from juniors, to world juniors, to the NHL. He was very good in the Toronto series at times, but hit the wall against Tampa. Bemstrom however was up and down all year (as to be expected from a rookie), but his ups were never frequent, and his ups were more sparks than any sustained period of play. I do think he would have had a better year if not for his injury though, as he was starting to turn the corner before it happened.

Marchenko barely edges out Peeke for 3. I chose him mostly due to top end potential. I think Marchenko could be a very solid top six player for the team in a few years, but he has to learn consistency and the defensive aspect of the game or he won't last. Meanwhile, Peeke is going to be a solid pro, but I don't know how high the ceiling is. He was impressive in some games where he was extremely sheltered, and very exposed when he wasn't sheltered. All in all, I think both players have good NHL futures ahead of them, and I battled hard on which one should be 3rd. Ultimately I decided top end potential trumped the safe option, because if Marchenko hits he could be a stud.

Voronkov made a late push to be ahead of Tarasov, but I couldn't pull the trigger. He seems to be really trending upward in his development and can even potentially be fast tracked to the NHL if he wants it in the relatively near future. I do question the upside though, I see people calling him Boone Jenner or even better, but I don't know. I do think he has an NHL future though, but I question the ceiling. Meanwhile, Tarasov's ceiling is sky high. I think he has potential to be an NHL star down the road, however I do think he will require a lot of time to get to where he needs to be. But, with the CBJ depth in goal, they can wait for him, or even use him as a trade chip.

Stenlund revived his career as a prospect and put himself on the NHL map again. He's got a very good shot, and is a smart player. However, that appears to be all he has going for him. The rest of the body of work is just meh. He has impressive size and can get around, but nothing leaps out at you. I think he has 3rd line PP specialist upside.

Vehvilainen was fine for his first season on NA ice. Nothing special, but the potential is there. More time in the oven and he could be a fine starting goalie in the NHL, or used as a trade chip.

After VV, the quality of the prospect pool really starts falling off. The top 5 is very solid, the next 3 are pretty good. After that? It's a whole lot of questions and deeply flawed prospects. Some have very longshot odds to even play games in the NHL.

Hjorth is impressive. I like his build and I think he's got a future ahead of him. However, his statline isn't impressive, which is surprising to me given his offensive instincts, and his defensive play is abysmal. He'll need to improve dramatically in that area, or become an excellent offensive player to make up for the shortcomings, or he won't see the NHL.

Carlsson is meh. He could probably play on an NHL team if they needed him, and he'd probably fit in on somebodies 3rd pairing and you wouldn't really care. Think of Scott Harrington, but a little worse.

TFW was fine in his first full pro season. IIRC he got injured but bounced back after a very tough start. He could get some games on a call up if he's playing well, and I could see him climbing the list. Still, my reservations with him as a prospect haven't changed, and I think he's an AHL scorer career trajectory.

Kivlenieks was fine for Cleveland, and fine for the CBJ when called upon. But it's hard to really judge him when the entire system is so goalie friendly. He did his job, and is a reliable goalie given our system. That's really it. I think he's at best an NHL backup, but more likely an AHL guy.

Sherwood is Sherwood. Big size, big shot. Nothing else. Doesn't get in position to use his size or his shot very often, and very little offensive instincts. Little growth, but an AHL call up guy if needed due to his size and ability to keep up.

Berni and Karlberg are kind of the same. Berni is higher due to a higher floor, but it's not a huge margin. Karlberg has good potential, but he never shows it against the best of the best in his country. Big year for both of them, and both have potential to climb. Karlberg will be (hopefully) playing full time in the SHL and Berni will be going to Cleveland whenever they start.

MacInnis had a good year for Cleveland and earned a few call ups with the CBJ. Didn't look out of place. He's there.

The rest are on the list because I needed 20 prospects. Thome is interesting to me though, but he's caught in such a logjam at both his college and in our own system that I don't see him getting a contract.

 

[ViD]

@CBJWennberg10 I don’t know what you see in Bemstrom, he’s nothing special and he’s had a very mediocre rookie season.

I would easily place Foudy and Marchenko over him

 

[Monk]

@CBJWennberg10 I don’t know what you see in Bemstrom, he’s nothing special and he’s had a very mediocre rookie season.

I would easily place Foudy and Marchenko over him

Didn't this part of CBJW's post pretty much cover it? And he did put Foudy over Bemstrom... Seems like a reasonable explanation to me.

"Foudy edges out Bemstrom for the #1 spot...but just barely. I think Bemstrom has the higher end potential out of the two players by a WIDE margin on the offensive end. But at the same time, Foudy holds a wide margin on the defensive end, and I think is far more likely to reach his top potential than Bemstrom. Foudy was good this year all around, from juniors, to world juniors, to the NHL. He was very good in the Toronto series at times, but hit the wall against Tampa. Bemstrom however was up and down all year (as to be expected from a rookie), but his ups were never frequent, and his ups were more sparks than any sustained period of play. I do think he would have had a better year if not for his injury though, as he was starting to turn the corner before it happened."

 

[ViD]

Didn't this part of CBJW's post pretty much cover it? And he did put Foudy over Bemstrom... Seems like a reasonable explanation to me.

"Foudy edges out Bemstrom for the #1 spot...but just barely. I think Bemstrom has the higher end potential out of the two players by a WIDE margin on the offensive end. But at the same time, Foudy holds a wide margin on the defensive end, and I think is far more likely to reach his top potential than Bemstrom. Foudy was good this year all around, from juniors, to world juniors, to the NHL. He was very good in the Toronto series at times, but hit the wall against Tampa. Bemstrom however was up and down all year (as to be expected from a rookie), but his ups were never frequent, and his ups were more sparks than any sustained period of play. I do think he would have had a better year if not for his injury though, as he was starting to turn the corner before it happened."

He ranked him as the second best prospect, saying that Foudy barely edged him meaning that Bemstrom could have been the best prospect in the system.

I say that I have at least two prospects that I easily rank higher than him plus a couple others that are also arguably better

 

[CBJWerenski8]

@CBJWennberg10 I don’t know what you see in Bemstrom, he’s nothing special and he’s had a very mediocre rookie season.

I would easily place Foudy and Marchenko over him

I would recommend you watch Bemstrom's highlights from his last year in Sweden, and during the WJC that year. He should be a scoring gem on the powerplay, and his top end potential is that of a 2nd line scorer. However, he never got his footing this year, and rarely played. It was largely a learning year, and he might have benefited more playing in the AHL or Sweden again. That being said, I still believe in Bemstrom's top end potential. Will he get there? I don't know, but he's still very young.

 

[ViD]

I would recommend you watch Bemstrom's highlights from his last year in Sweden, and during the WJC that year. He should be a scoring gem on the powerplay, and his top end potential is that of a 2nd line scorer. However, he never got his footing this year, and rarely played. It was largely a learning year, and he might have benefited more playing in the AHL or Sweden again. That being said, I still believe in Bemstrom's top end potential. Will he get there? I don't know, but he's still very young.

Marchenko, Voronkov and Foudy also had decent showing at the WJHC, the first two played in KHL (obviously much less TOI) and Foudy was pretty dominant in OHL.

Yeah, Bemstrom is the only one who has played a decent amount of time in NHL but so far I am just not seeing that scoring touch in him, even Foudy had a better eye test this play offs.

I sure hope Bemstrom progresses next year, but I just can’t rank him that high based on the potential.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Marchenko, Voronkov and Foudy also had decent showing at the WJHC, the first two played in KHL (obviously much less TOI) and Foudy was pretty dominant in OHL.

Yeah, Bemstrom is the only one who has played a decent amount of time in NHL but so far I am just not seeing that scoring touch in him, even Foudy had a better eye test this play offs.

I sure hope Bemstrom progresses next year, but I just can’t rank him that high based on the potential.

Again I ask you to watch some of his highlights in SHL before he came over. You might get a new perspective.

 

[ViD]

Again I ask you to watch some of his highlights in SHL before he came over. You might get a new perspective.

I mean have you seen Sonny Milano highlights ?

 

[stevo61]

I mean have you seen Sonny Milano highlights ?

I have no idea why you are arguing such a weird thing and using Milano as the video of choice. Id compare his video more to Marchenko than Bemstrom.
Bemstrom has an elite level one timer and was putting up goals in a mens league. One of the major issues in Columbus is the lack of playmakers and that hurts him. As he gets older and learns the NHL game he'll figure out how to do more for himself and continue to do better finding open ice.

 

[ViD]

I have no idea why you are arguing such a weird thing and using Milano as the video of choice. Id compare his video more to Marchenko than Bemstrom.
Bemstrom has an elite level one timer and was putting up goals in a mens league. One of the major issues in Columbus is the lack of playmakers and that hurts him. As he gets older and learns the NHL game he'll figure out how to do more for himself and continue to do better finding open ice.

All I’m saying is that we’ve seen many players who had great highlights in juniors or other leagues which unfortunately didn’t translate to the NHL. In case of Bemstrom I personally have not seen enough to say he’s going to become a top 6 talent

 

[CBJWerenski8]

All I’m saying is that we’ve seen many players who had great highlights in juniors or other leagues which unfortunately didn’t translate to the NHL. In case of Bemstrom I personally have not seen enough to say he’s going to become a top 6 talent

Bemstrom isn’t dangling or getting multiple breakaways on his highlight videos, FWIW.

 

[The Wheelchair]

I've been a Bemstrom fan since he was drafted (think I voted to add him for like six consecutive prospect polls at one point). His "thing" is his hockey IQ. He reads the play really well and it seems like he always knows where to be in the offensive zone. He has this knack for knowing where the puck is going to wind up, which is how he dominated the SHL. I think there's reason to believe he settles in as a middle-six scorer once he finishes adjusting to the speed of the NHL. The downside is he's not particularly big and not particularly fast, which limits his upside somewhat IMO.

 

[Nanabijou]

I've been a Bemstrom fan since he was drafted (think I voted to add him for like six consecutive prospect polls at one point). His "thing" is his hockey IQ. He reads the play really well and it seems like he always knows where to be in the offensive zone. He has this knack for knowing where the puck is going to wind up, which is how he dominated the SHL. I think there's reason to believe he settles in as a middle-six scorer once he finishes adjusting to the speed of the NHL. The downside is he's not particularly big and not particularly fast, which limits his upside somewhat IMO.

Hope you are right. I kept wanting more out of him this year that didn't come. Hopefully, it still will.

 

[Doggy]

I've been a Bemstrom fan since he was drafted (think I voted to add him for like six consecutive prospect polls at one point). His "thing" is his hockey IQ. He reads the play really well and it seems like he always knows where to be in the offensive zone. He has this knack for knowing where the puck is going to wind up, which is how he dominated the SHL. I think there's reason to believe he settles in as a middle-six scorer once he finishes adjusting to the speed of the NHL. The downside is he's not particularly big and not particularly fast, which limits his upside somewhat IMO.

I also hope you are right but its not just the "speed" of the NHL game but its the "space". Being in the right place on the wide open expanse of Euro ice where teams might pass the puck around forever waiting for the perfect scoring opportunity is drastically different from being in the right place and finding open space in the NHL

 

[The Wheelchair]

I also hope you are right but its not just the "speed" of the NHL game but its the "space". Being in the right place on the wide open expanse of Euro ice where teams might pass the puck around forever waiting for the perfect scoring opportunity is drastically different from being in the right place and finding open space in the NHL

Yeah, that's also very true. I'm definitely not saying I think Bemstrom is for sure going to be a star, either. I'd have Foudy (definitely) and Marchenko (probably) ahead of him on a prospect ranking. It's very possible he just doesn't have the size/speed/skill to make it in the NHL. But I do think it's possible he makes the leap, even though his physical tools don't exactly leap off the screen.

 

[majormajor]

Regarding Emil Bemstrom, I think we are being a bit harsh on him. There are a lot of reasons why he didn't have a great scoring season.

--He is twenty years old, a late bloomer, first season on NA ice.
--He joined a team with a stifling defensive system (stifling for its own scorers, many had career-worst production).
--He was injured twice.

Nonetheless compare his rookie season to Kucherov's, it wasn't much different in terms of production. Both about the same points and same age. Similar build come to think of it but of course the skill level is not the same. I do think Bemstrom is a fiery competitor and a very shifty skater, he might have a lot of upside yet. I want him in Finland or Cleveland this year where he can get top scoring minutes and get comfortable as a puck-carrier.

Voronkov started the season with 2+1 in 4 games, Marchenko is pointless in 3 games (he played only 11 minutes in last game)

Let me remind you, Voronkov is a 6’4 190 lbs center, let’s hope he develops into a true second line center man.

I'm wondering if Voronkov might not be the better prospect than Marchenko, he's certainly playing better in the KHL at the moment. Marchenko is getting flak for defensive play and isn't scoring, while Voronkov is scoring and "crushing people at both ends". He must be heavier than 190 lbs at this point, he's throwing guys that are that size. I'd call his upside "impact physical 2C".

 

[majormajor]

The past few years I have gotten pretty good at picking the "potential riser" among our prospect pools going into seasons (Marchenko this year,

Yes, you boldly ranked him 9th.

1. Liam Foudy
2. Emil Bemstrom
3. Kirill Marchenko
4. Andrew Peeke
5. Daniil Tarasov
6. Dmitri Voronkov
7. Kevin Stenlund
8. Veini Vehvilainen
9. Eric Hjorth
10. Gabriel Carlsson
11. Trey Fix-Wolansky
12. Mattis Kivlenieks
13. Kole Sherwood
14. Tim Berni
15. Markus Karlberg
16. Ryan MacInnis
17. Peter Thome
18. Tyler Angle
19. Kale Howarth
20. Robbie Stucker
.

The guys I see as likely undervalued here are:

- Voronkov. Massive physical presence, 2C upside, Marchenko might become a topline winger and still not be more valuable than that.

- TFW. Anyone ranked below Carlsson surely has the mark of death, and in Trey's case it's not deserved. He had a good twenty years old season, the list of NHLers who began at a similar scoring pace in the AHL is very long. Trey started with a bad scoring slump but rebounded with a long point-per-game stretch. I don't think Stenlund had ever scored with such consistency at SHL or AHL level. I haven't seen him enough to project his upside. Have you seen him do anything that would suggest he won't make it?

- Tim Berni. Playing top 4 minutes in the Swiss league at his age is a big deal. He's far ahead of where Kukan was at that age. Very smart player. He probably won't be more than a #4/5 guy in the NHL (a bit smallish and not a scorer) but there's value there. If a guy is on track to play a similar role to Nuti and Kukan then he is more valuable than Gabe Carlsson is.

- Tyler Angle. He just had a nice uptick in his scoring since we drafted him. He's very much in the mold of a pesky little energy winger. He's 19 so lots of time to grow there. There's next to zero shot of NHL future for Karlberg, Thome, Stucker, and Howarth. Angle is in a class clearly above them.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Yes, you boldly ranked him 9th.



The guys I see as likely undervalued here are:

- Voronkov. Massive physical presence, 2C upside, Marchenko might become a topline winger and still not be more valuable than that.

- TFW. Anyone ranked below Carlsson surely has the mark of death, and in Trey's case it's not deserved. He had a good twenty years old season, the list of NHLers who began at a similar scoring pace in the AHL is very long. Trey started with a bad scoring slump but rebounded with a long point-per-game stretch. I don't think Stenlund had ever scored with such consistency at SHL or AHL level. I haven't seen him enough to project his upside. Have you seen him do anything that would suggest he won't make it?

- Tim Berni. Playing top 4 minutes in the Swiss league at his age is a big deal. He's far ahead of where Kukan was at that age. Very smart player. He probably won't be more than a #4/5 guy in the NHL (a bit smallish and not a scorer) but there's value there. If a guy is on track to play a similar role to Nuti and Kukan then he is more valuable than Gabe Carlsson is.

- Tyler Angle. He just had a nice uptick in his scoring since we drafted him. He's very much in the mold of a pesky little energy winger. He's 19 so lots of time to grow there. There's next to zero shot of NHL future for Karlberg, Thome, Stucker, and Howarth. Angle is in a class clearly above them.

He was ranked 9th and was designated as a potential riser going into last years season. I think that’s a pretty good call. Voronkov jumped more, but Marchenko is right up there.

I just don’t see the offensive upside of Voronkov. I see him as a physical bottom 6 center/winger.

TFW was fine last year, but I think his ceiling is that of a top line scoring AHL guy with some stints in the nhl. Basically tj tynan

Berni is a hard one to evaluate, it’ll be easier after he starts playing in the AHL. I think your Kukan comparison is good

 

[Jovavic]

Does Voronkov have a mean streak and a lethal wrister? If so, he might be the second coming of Svitov

 

[DarkandStormy]

When does the "offseason" prospect voting/ranking begin? Time is weird, eh? I ask because some of the prospects may start playing meaningful games soon, which could skew things in voting because usually in the past when voting occurs, all players are taking a break.

 

[Monk]

Does Voronkov have a mean streak and a lethal wrister? If so, he might be the second coming of Svitov

Don't tease me like that

 

[EspenK]

When does the "offseason" prospect voting/ranking begin? Time is weird, eh? I ask because some of the prospects may start playing meaningful games soon, which could skew things in voting because usually in the past when voting occurs, all players are taking a break.

Typically it is done late July/early to mid August iirc.

Always after the draft so new guys can be ranked #1.

Personally I don't think the fact that some are playing should matter. Most current info should make for better results.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

When does the "offseason" prospect voting/ranking begin? Time is weird, eh? I ask because some of the prospects may start playing meaningful games soon, which could skew things in voting because usually in the past when voting occurs, all players are taking a break.

Usually we do them in August.

They key being, as Espen said, that's it's after the draft. So... after the draft.

 

[majormajor]

Typically it is done late July/early to mid August iirc.

Always after the draft so new guys can be ranked #1.

Personally I don't think the fact that some are playing should matter. Most current info should make for better results.

No joke, and I expect whoever we draft this year to go at the top of the list. If Texier was still a prospect he'd be a clear #1 prospect, for me none of this year's leftovers are on that tier.