CBJ Board Other Sports Thread: Part XI

[Byrral]

Trying to be objective with all of this. But after the Smith interviews today and Urbans twitter post it is apparent that there are a lot of lies going on. All the way up the OSU food chain.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Convicting people in the media is the sign of a society which has lost sight of the fundamental premise of innocent until proven guilty. A society which has fallen this far isn't capable of upholding democratic institutions.

That said, I have no idea about what really happened nor do I care about this OSU stuff.

Are tenured professors at OSU held to the same standards as football coaches? I sincerely doubt it.

 

[Byrral]

Convicting people in the media is the sign of a society which has lost sight of the fundamental premise of innocent until proven guilty. A society which has fallen this far isn't capable of upholding democratic institutions.

Although I agree with your statement in general, the "media", needs to be defined by you in more detail to get a clear understanding of your intentions with this statement. I hope you're not placing blame on the reporters for publishing this story. This type of media bashing has been going on too much in our society lately. There may be talking heads in the "media" and others that have already determined their convictions. But the reporters are doing their jobs and reporting the news that society has a right to know. After that it's up to society to make determinations based on the facts that come out. I think most reasonable people have not made up their minds or convicted anyone and are waiting for the most important answers and facts to come out. OSU has not yet provided that information to this point.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Although I agree with your statement in general, the "media", needs to be defined by you in more detail to get a clear understanding of your intentions with this statement.

Convicted on the basis of an accusation and/or small pieces of information gained through media without full knowledge of all facts involved would be the intention of my statement.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Are tenured professors at OSU held to the same standards as football coaches? I sincerely doubt it.

Not sure how or why this is revelant.

 

[cslebn]

Not sure how or why this is revelant.

Shelly Meyer (and urban actually) is an instructor at OSU

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Shelly Meyer (and urban actually) is an instructor at OSU

Then why doesn’t Urban just use the same compensation scale as the rest of the faculty?

 

[EspenK]

Then why doesn’t Urban just use the same compensation scale as the rest ufvthe faculty?

Because they couldn't beat Michigan?

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

My partner is a tenured OSU professor. She not only is bound by Title IX, she has to put that disclosure in her syllabus for every class. While there might not be as many eyes on her as there are on Urban, you better believe that hammer is there should the University need to use it.

Irregardless of all of that, Urban Meyer, for many obvious reasons, is not your run of the mill employee so I am not sure trying to make that parallel is relevant.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Not sure how or why this is revelant.

Really?

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Really?

Was going to just let this lay since you missed the post directly above yours explaining my thoughts. However, this news today is relevant to my point.



Brian Hartline, in his second year on staff and second year in the coaching profession, in an interim position will make $105k this year with the possibility of two bonuses.

My partner is a nine-year OSU employee (associate professor for six years, tenured professor for the past three) and does not make that much.

Both are OSU employees, but there's a world of difference there. This isn't a complaint about sports-related pay vs. educator pay. Sports is a different world with different economics. Which is my point - sports, especially football at a place like OSU, is a different world. These are some of the university's highest paid and highest profile employees (How many OSU coaches can you name? How many tenured professors?). That comes both with more intense public scrutiny and, frankly, more responsibility.

You can't get mad if Urban Meyer and his staff aren't treated like regular employees because they have never and will never be regular employees. You can't claim the spoils of an extraordinary job and then try to duck the pressure and standards that come with it. Don't like it, don't take that paycheck.

All that said, there is an important similarity in this case that I mentioned in an earlier post and will repeat again here -- professors are required to report Title IX issues as well so if you want to say that is a requirement Urban is being held to that others are not, that simply isn't true.

Given the amount of attention given to the football program, is Urban Meyer or a member of his staff more likely to get in trouble for these things than Dr. John Q. Math Professor who the media doesn't have a constant interest in? Sure, I'll grant that. But that, as some may say, is why you make the big bucks ....

 

[spintheblackcircle]

 

[EspenK]

So Urban gets a 3 game suspension for Gene Smith not reporting things to the Compliance Dept. This to me sounds like a compromise between the Board which reportedly were strongly in favor of immediate reinstatement and Daniels who wanted a lengthy suspension. Glad he wasn't fired for this and I am looking forward to the season.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

This is the point I have a lot of trouble getting past ...



Even beyond the issues between Zach Smith and his wife, Smith had other problems/incidents that Meyer was aware of (a track record of behavior that goes back to 2009) and it seems he never got more than a "don't do that" or "I'm serious man, don't do that..."

I am genuinely not sure how I feel on fire vs. suspend. I suppose if no one is happy with the decision (OSU fans seem to think it's harsh, outsiders seem to think it's getting off easy) then there's an element of fairness?
Meyer seems to have reported the big things so that's good. And I guess the defense for no action is that no charges were filed, which ok I guess. But why oh why oh why was this multiple time f-up kept on Meyer's staff? (I know the whole Earle Bruce connection, but what a mess).

Ugh.

 

[JacketsDavid]

But why oh why oh why was this multiple time f-up kept on Meyer's staff? (I know the whole Earle Bruce connection, but what a mess).

Ugh.

Because he could recruit. Average coach at best, but a great recruiter. Hence reason Tom Herman wanted him gone because he slid into Texas and took their best player to OSU. I'm sure Urbans loyalty to Earle played some role, but he could recruit which is the #1 thin he wants in his coaches.
I'll be honest I'm a die hard OSU fan. I love having Urban as coach but as a guy I don't care for him. He has his inner circle and he's tough to get to know, not friendly at all unless he wants something or unless OSU makes him do it (donor events). He's a great recruiter and good coach (again not an elite coach, but elite at recruiting). But just not friendly, not the spokesman you necessarily expect out of a head coach.
If he would have been fired the University would have been fine in a couple years. Right now this team is loaded again.

 

[Viqsi]

This is the point I have a lot of trouble getting past ...



Even beyond the issues between Zach Smith and his wife, Smith had other problems/incidents that Meyer was aware of (a track record of behavior that goes back to 2009) and it seems he never got more than a "don't do that" or "I'm serious man, don't do that..."

I am genuinely not sure how I feel on fire vs. suspend. I suppose if no one is happy with the decision (OSU fans seem to think it's harsh, outsiders seem to think it's getting off easy) then there's an element of fairness?
Meyer seems to have reported the big things so that's good. And I guess the defense for no action is that no charges were filed, which ok I guess. But why oh why oh why was this multiple time f-up kept on Meyer's staff? (I know the whole Earle Bruce connection, but what a mess).

Ugh.

This here OSU fan thinks the suspension is the correct call. The problem is that a lot of OSU fans are thinking the case is about whether or not there actually was any domestic violence issues rather than whether or not Meyer handled the situation appropriately, and they're sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting "NOBODY BELIEVES HER NOT EVEN HER OWN MOTHER" anytime anyone tries to set the record straight. They're assuming "it didn't happen? well then he handled it appropriately!" NO YOU IDIOTS THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS.

And on the other hand, there's folks who are always prepared to believe the worst about anything OSU and/or anything Meyer or both, and are thus in "see an inch, demand a mile" mode. Seriously, there was one poster on the Athletic story about the situation saying that retaining Meyer puts OSU in the same moral territory as Penn State's coverup of Jerry Sandusky diddling little boys for 15 years.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

This here OSU fan thinks the suspension is the correct call. The problem is that a lot of OSU fans are thinking the case is about whether or not there actually was any domestic violence issues rather than whether or not Meyer handled the situation appropriately, and they're sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting "NOBODY BELIEVES HER NOT EVEN HER OWN MOTHER" anytime anyone tries to set the record straight. They're assuming "it didn't happen? well then he handled it appropriately!" NO YOU IDIOTS THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS.

And on the other hand, there's folks who are always prepared to believe the worst about anything OSU and/or anything Meyer or both, and are thus in "see an inch, demand a mile" mode. Seriously, there was one poster on the Athletic story about the situation saying that retaining Meyer puts OSU in the same moral territory as Penn State's coverup of Jerry Sandusky diddling little boys for 15 years.

Definitely a lot of noise around the core issue from both sides. Reactions on all sides have been fairly predictable to date too.

But NEVER being disciplined for anything beyond an occasional scolding? That's a tough revelation for this fan to swallow. I'm not naive about the shadier side of college or professional sports and how the need to win trumps all things. But what I am surprised at is that no one along the way -- with Meyer at the top of that list -- stopped to think, "this screw up is going to hurt us all if we keep coddling him ... recruiting be damned." Some may spin Meyer's whole "I was counseling him" schtick as selflessness. I think it was just stupid.

 

[Viqsi]

Definitely a lot of noise around the core issue from both sides. Reactions on all sides have been fairly predictable to date too.

But NEVER being disciplined for anything beyond an occasional scolding? That's a tough revelation for this fan to swallow. I'm not naive about the shadier side of college or professional sports and how the need to win trumps all things. But what I am surprised at is that no one along the way -- with Meyer at the top of that list -- stopped to think, "this screw up is going to hurt us all if we keep coddling him ... recruiting be damned." Some may spin Meyer's whole "I was counseling him" schtick as selflessness. I think it was just stupid.

Concur, which is a large part of why I think the suspension was necessary and proper. Or, rather, I do think it was an attempt at selflessness on his part; it's just that that doesn't excuse things (just makes me think a little better of him).

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Definitely a lot of noise around the core issue from both sides. Reactions on all sides have been fairly predictable to date too.

But NEVER being disciplined for anything beyond an occasional scolding? That's a tough revelation for this fan to swallow. I'm not naive about the shadier side of college or professional sports and how the need to win trumps all things. But what I am surprised at is that no one along the way -- with Meyer at the top of that list -- stopped to think, "this screw up is going to hurt us all if we keep coddling him ... recruiting be damned." Some may spin Meyer's whole "I was counseling him" schtick as selflessness. I think it was just stupid.

If people thought they were gonna get "caught" doing stuff they shouldn't be doing - or not doing what they should be - there'd be a lot less of it.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

If people thought they were gonna get "caught" doing stuff they shouldn't be doing - or not doing what they should be - there'd be a lot less of it.

YOUR REASONABLE RESPONSE IS INTERRUPTING MY IRE!

 

[Nanabijou]

I'm not entering the debate on whether the suspension was the right call.

But, can we all agree that press conference was a debacle? I get this is all hindsight and there seemed to be pressure to do something after making the media sit around all day. However, I think it would have been better for everyone to release the report, release the punishment and then say there would be a press conference the following morning. Give everyone a chance to get out of that building, get some rest and settle some of the raw emotions that were undoubtedly flaming that day.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

It's going to be a circus this year for Ohio State. We'll be the most hated team in college football by the media and other fans, which isn't exactly ideal when grooming a new young QB on a young roster, and it will be all guns blazing at OSU fans and the institution when Urban returns from suspension and gets a warm reception.

 

[Byrral]

So Coach Meyer is again having to apologize for his terrible talking points and arrogant demeanor. He's getting really good at those lately.

Urban has put his foot in his mouth on more than one occasion dealing with this issue. We still don't know the whole truth, never will. So many unanswered questions out of the report. The commission protected the University. They are trying to get past this fast and bury it. Time will tell if they can get past this without further scrutiny. Urban and Gene both got a pardon from the commission and University. If Urban was a 7 win coach they would both be gone.

But ready to move on.

Recommendation to Urban - From this point forward keep your mouth shut when you're talking about anything but football. You should have a canned response to any question going forward. "The commission have completed their investigation and I accept their conclusion. I have served my punishment and will focus on football and my players. Any questions relating to the investigation should go to the commission.

 

[JacketsDavid]

It's going to be a circus this year for Ohio State. We'll be the most hated team in college football by the media and other fans, which isn't exactly ideal when grooming a new young QB on a young roster, and it will be all guns blazing at OSU fans and the institution when Urban returns from suspension and gets a warm reception.

It has worked for other teams in the past - Jimmy Johnson and the Hurricanes, Switzer and Oklahoma, Carroll and USC and Saban and Bama have always been the bad guys. They play off from it.
And I think other teams and media have always hated OSU at least since Tressell.

 

[Viqsi]

It's going to be a circus this year for Ohio State. We'll be the most hated team in college football by the media and other fans, which isn't exactly ideal when grooming a new young QB on a young roster, and it will be all guns blazing at OSU fans and the institution when Urban returns from suspension and gets a warm reception.

You say that as though this is somehow unusual or exceptional.

Seriously, being a Buckeye fan is why I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for Leafs fans. They're huge so they're a target, they're completely surrounded by loudmouth edgelord ****tards so they have that embarrassment to deal with all the time, and any time they want to have a decent conversation about their team either one of the aforementioned ****tards will show up and derail the whole thing, or someone on the other side will make a blind generalization of "lots == all" and derail the whole thing.