Dreger: "CBJ and Nashville with trade offers for Matt Duchene"

mikeyp24

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Jun 28, 2014
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Murray is a young LHD, he is also terrible:
8YKP3QPW5
https://public.tableau.com/shared/8YKP3QPW5?:display_count=yes
Jenner is also has 3rd-4th line possession numbers and puts up between 30-40 points a season. He's essentially a younger Mcginn.

Neither one of those guys are special, and while I could see them being a part of a Duchene deal they certainly wouldn't be the main piece. This isn't saying that aren't solid NHL players to those CBJ fans who may like them, but they don't get you Duchene.

If there is any team who would know CBJ's roster it would be the Avs, having their previous ASGM and 2 previous AHL coaches.

If a deal does happen I would expect Bjork or Wennberg to be the main target (assuming the top 2 are untouchable). Maybe PLD but coming off a meh season I'm not sure he'd be the one they'd look at.
I'd suggest maybe just finding a way to watch... any CBJ game... ever... And you would see that you are just pure wrong. You will find exactly 1 CBJ fan that agrees and at this point it's at the point where that person was more of a fan of Johanson then the team so it makes sense.
 

Meeqs

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Aug 23, 2012
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Wennberg huh, so are you ready to talk trading Mackinnon or you going to be adding (a big add too) to Duchene? Because Wennberg at his age and just coming of his season, and just coming off his elc, is way more valuable than 2 years of Duchene who's stats seem to be declining. BTW, You guys would be better arguing with Oilers fans over the adds for Drai considering he's their second best center and far more expendable.

Duchene's contract doesn't mean bunk. If CBJ cared so much about contracts then they wouldn't have moved Saad for Panarin.

Its cute how you thought asking for Mackinnon was clever insight. The trend is a great litmus test to weed out the people who don't have a good understanding of what they are talking about.

Now don't get me wrong, its very possible CBJ has decided that they aren't going to move Wennberg, but that may be what it'll take to get Duchene.
 

Meeqs

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Aug 23, 2012
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I'd suggest maybe just finding a way to watch... any CBJ game... ever... And you would see that you are just pure wrong. You will find exactly 1 CBJ fan that agrees and at this point it's at the point where that person was more of a fan of Johanson then the team so it makes sense.

Just because you disagree with my opinion doesn't give any insight into how many CBJ games I watch per year. Its foolish of you to assume that.

I wouldn't expect a general majority of a teams fan base to hold an unbiased opinion about their players, which is why I use stats to verify my thoughts on players I watch.

If you can find actual reasoning to back up your argument I'd be happy to discuss it further.
 

Dumais

It's All In The Reflexes
Jul 24, 2013
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Duchene's contract doesn't mean bunk. If CBJ cared so much about contracts then they wouldn't have moved Saad for Panarin.

Its cute how you thought asking for Mackinnon was clever insight. The trend is a great litmus test to weed out the people who don't have a good understanding of what they are talking about.

Now don't get me wrong, its very possible CBJ has decided that they aren't going to move Wennberg, but that may be what it'll take to get Duchene.

Why would a playoff team trade their best center who's still developing for a lesser older center?
 

mikeyp24

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Jun 28, 2014
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Just because you disagree with my opinion doesn't give any insight into how many CBJ games I watch per year. Its foolish of you to assume that.

I wouldn't expect a general majority of a teams fan base to hold an unbiased opinion about their players, which is why I use stats to verify my thoughts on players I watch.

If you can find actual reasoning to back up your argument I'd be happy to discuss it further.
Because stat watching means 0 especially without any context. Specifically Murray. The kid played top D pair at the world cup with Jones with a team that was able to chose the best talent from.US and Canada. Prior to this year he was the best D on the pair with Seth Jones. He has played 2D his entire career except this year. This year Werenski came in hot and showed his best chemistry was with Jones. JJ and Savard basically need each other to thrive they both struggle without being on the same pair. That left Murray to babysit which has been his role ever since coming here. He was put on his offside to protect a rookie who never played a pro game on NA ice. He came up and shut down teams in all important defensive moments with Jones over everyone else on the team. If you want to see Murray watch the world cup or 2nd half of the season last year when he first got Jones as a teammate. When he doesn't have to take care of the other defender because they pinch to much. Looking at numbers won't show you anything without context and actual knowledge of what's going on. Just like anyone ******** on Duchene right now. Anyone can cherry pick a situation without knowing the facts.
 

Meeqs

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Because stat watching means 0 especially without any context. Specifically Murray. The kid played top D pair at the world cup with Jones with a team that was able to chose the best talent from.US and Canada. Prior to this year he was the best D on the pair with Seth Jones. He has played 2D his entire career except this year. This year Werenski came in hot and showed his best chemistry was with Jones. JJ and Savard basically need each other to thrive they both struggle without being on the same pair. That left Murray to babysit which has been his role ever since coming here. He was put on his offside to protect a rookie who never played a pro game on NA ice. He came up and shut down teams in all important defensive moments with Jones over everyone else on the team. If you want to see Murray watch the world cup or 2nd half of the season last year when he first got Jones as a teammate. When he doesn't have to take care of the other defender because they pinch to much. Looking at numbers won't show you anything without context and actual knowledge of what's going on. Just like anyone ******** on Duchene right now. Anyone can cherry pick a situation without knowing the facts.

Again, your assumptions are foolish and make you seem ignorant. Stats are useful to back up your thoughts on a player you are watching. In this case what I see from Murray, especially given his injury history, indicates he is a #5 at best, and the stats support that thought.

Anyone on a pairing with Seth Jones will be amazing, because Seth Jones is amazing. The Avs are a team in the NHL, so couldn't care less about non NHL events when we have a sufficient sample size and he played top minutes in CBJ previously because CBJ's previous D was garbage. JMFJ played a ton of minutes for them and he isn't that great either.

Its perfectly fine if he does a good job playing a lower level role in CBJ, but that doesn't make him any more or less valuable to the Avs, who are looking for a dman with more upside.

To make this clear, I watch plenty of hockey and the numbers support my claim. However because the numbers do not support yours does not indicate how much hockey I watch, just because it is convenient for your argument. You'd have to be an idiot to think that way, which as of now has yet to be proven one way or the other.
 

Meeqs

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Why would a playoff team trade their best center who's still developing for a lesser older center?

Age is irrelevant, as Duchene is still in his prime. "Lesser" is purely based on opinion. They may (or may not) feel Duchene is the superior player, in which case the trade could make sense, especially if they feel PLD is close to competing.

There are a lot of different options CBJ could take, as their good track record has given them a lot of good young players. Should they choose to try and win the Cup in the next 2 years to align with Panarin, then moving for Duchene could make sense. Should they go a longer approach then it would make less sense.

There is also the possibility that there simply isnt a trade to be had here.
 

Dumais

It's All In The Reflexes
Jul 24, 2013
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Age is irrelevant, as Duchene is still in his prime. "Lesser" is purely based on opinion. They may (or may not) feel Duchene is the superior player, in which case the trade could make sense, especially if they feel PLD is close to competing.

There are a lot of different options CBJ could take, as their good track record has given them a lot of good young players. Should they choose to try and win the Cup in the next 2 years to align with Panarin, then moving for Duchene could make sense. Should they go a longer approach then it would make less sense.

There is also the possibility that there simply isnt a trade to be had here.

Reasonable response, and reasonable people can agree to disagree. And for what it's worth, cbj need someone better than both Wennberg and/or Duchene to get out of the 1st round IMO, hence the reason for going after Mackinnon...understand if you see him as untouchable in trade offers.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

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Lol please don't justify that trade

I'm pointing out that there are reasons teams would trade a younger player who might be better in the future for someone older and "lesser", and backing it up with evidence that it happened in the recent past. Just because you think that trade was bad doesn't eliminate the reasoning behind it, or the fact that it happened.
 

mikeyp24

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Jun 28, 2014
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All I can say now is I hope Murray goes to the Avs no matter what else is involved so they can see Murray and then watch every fan defend him to the masses because they haven't watched him play and are still holding onto false narrative.
 

Meeqs

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Reasonable response, and reasonable people can agree to disagree. And for what it's worth, cbj need someone better than both Wennberg and/or Duchene to get out of the 1st round IMO, hence the reason for going after Mackinnon...understand if you see him as untouchable in trade offers.

I could totally see there not being a trade that made sense from CBJ's side. Although I think with the addition of Panarin they are closer than people give them credit for.

Mackinnon, Jost and Rantanen are all untouchable, for the same reason I don't bother bringing up players like Jones or scarface.

CBJ has so many pieces that a deal could certainly be made without Wennberg, but players like Murray, Jenner, and Milano would be small pieces, not center pieces is my main point.

I think a deal like Bjork, Carlsson and a 1st could also be along the lines of something the Avs could go for.
 

Meeqs

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Aug 23, 2012
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All I can say now is I hope Murray goes to the Avs no matter what else is involved so they can see Murray and then watch every fan defend him to the masses because they haven't watched him play and are still holding onto false narrative.

I don't think any Avs fan would be upset if Murray came over and became a high end player. The issue is with his given history, recent play and underlying numbers there is nothing to suggest he will suddenly develop into that.

The real issue here is the mitigation of risk. We know the player CBJ would get with Duchene, however prospect and picks often don't turn out, thus Sakic needs to find a deal with enough coming back to justify any overall risk in moving such a rare and hard to come by asset like Duchene.
 

Dumais

It's All In The Reflexes
Jul 24, 2013
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I could totally see there not being a trade that made sense from CBJ's side. Although I think with the addition of Panarin they are closer than people give them credit for.

Mackinnon, Jost and Rantanen are all untouchable, for the same reason I don't bother bringing up players like Jones or scarface.

CBJ has so many pieces that a deal could certainly be made without Wennberg, but players like Murray, Jenner, and Milano would be small pieces, not center pieces is my main point.

I think a deal like Bjork, Carlsson and a 1st could also be along the lines of something the Avs could go for.

Its the ******* metro! Panarin don't mean **** with AO, and I'm sure Duchene and Wennberg are good but, Crosby Malkin...argh...I don't think we are anywhere near them...have to hope they screw up, and the flyers are coming...islander Tavares...I miss the central...and we got our ass beat their too...
 

seabass45

Registered User
Jan 12, 2007
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I feel bad for NYI, for everything the Avs have been going through, NYI fans are about too. Except for the Avs have less to lose.

Weirdly I'm not that nervous about it. If he doesn't sign, review all the offers and take the best one. We have a lot of forward prospects coming up so i'm optimistic either way.
 

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