CBC’s sports operations dwindle toward extinction

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
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They enjoy the concept of watching their home team play at 7pm local time on saturday night (like Americans are comfortable with watching their NFL team play sunday afternoon). The brand name of that 7 to 9:45 time slot does not factor into the decision of watching their hockey game at that time.

You're saying the brand name of HNIC has no value? Sorry, I don't believe it.

Personally I watch portions of HNIC for no reason other than to see Don Cherry. That alone has ratings value.
 

Melrose Munch

Registered User
Mar 18, 2007
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There was a time when the CBC was necessary to ensure that Canadians had cultural representation, and that time as 20 years ago.

Please spare me the CBC is a "cultural icon" or a "canadian institution" pleas. Those arguments are baseless. What the CBC has done in the past has surely made an impact on Candian culture and values, however at this point its cultural impact is non-existent. Candian Culture has indeed changed, and the delivery of content in Canada no longer requires a public broadcaster for people to find Canadian content. They can go on the internet and find it themselves. The problem lies in that most Canadian content these days is of terrible quality, so intead of funding the CBC with $950M every year, the federal government should go to the PBS/NPR model of the states, maintain their radio footprint and divert that money to arts programs in Canada so we can produce some programming that is actually competitive in the Canadian and international markets.

Step 1 of this process will be when the NHL takes the truck full of money that CTV/Rogers (whoever wants it more) dumps in Gary's lap. It is going to happen, remember there was a time when people couldnt imagine the Olympics not being broadcast on the CBC. CTV would happily broadcast HNIC using TSN talent and branding every Saturday night, and when the playoffs roll around Sportsnet and TSN will be able able to offer better coverage using their multiple channel listings.
You can make the same arguement for anything canadian!
 

Evil Doctor

Cryin' Hank crying
Apr 29, 2009
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Cambridge, ON
With the nhl rights up in 2014 there are some that think tsn and sportsnet will make a major pitch for the rights.

Rights to the Saturday games not to the name "Hockey Night In Canada". It's much like Radio-Canada losing their Saturday nights game rights to RDS. "La Soirée du Hockey" is now "Le Hockey Du Samedi Soir"
 

wjhl2009fan

Registered User
Nov 13, 2008
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Rights to the Saturday games not to the name "Hockey Night In Canada". It's much like Radio-Canada losing their Saturday nights game rights to RDS. "La Soirée du Hockey" is now "Le Hockey Du Samedi Soir"

Lets just say tsn offers the nhl a massive offer are you saying no matter what the league should stick with cbc.
 

Evil Doctor

Cryin' Hank crying
Apr 29, 2009
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Lets just say tsn offers the nhl a massive offer are you saying no matter what the league should stick with cbc.

Not a all. I'm saying "Hockey Night In Canada" is a CBC brand name. I don't see them giving up the rights to that name, any more than SRC game up the brand name rights to "La Soirée du Hockey".
 

CBCnutcase

Registered User
Sep 11, 2007
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I'm not commenting regarding my position on the matter, and frankly I'm fairly ambivalent re the CBC. The said, the premise of this entire thread is an article written about the CBC, an article written by a staff writer with the Globe and Mail - owned by CTV, who happen to a competitor.
Well said. Dowbiggin is an amateur like journalist who is an ex CBC employee. He is still upset that he is no longer with the corporation and all he writes is stuff that is already known to the public. His blog is nothing new or earth shattering.
 

Brodie

the dream of the 90s is alive in Detroit
Mar 19, 2009
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I dunno, maybe the people who have been loyal to it since 1952.

You actually see a lot of this in Canada with younger people. The country is continually moving further and further away from what the generation before it believed was important. It's constantly evolving... 20 years, the suggestions in this thread would have been considered unconscionable and yet here we are with a lot of people talking about ditching the CBC and CanCon.
 

Dolemite

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CBC's advantage is that they are still willing to devote virtually all of their primetime schedule to the NHL during playoff time. CTV is not likely to do that since they mostly exist to rebroadcast US TV shows that they have purchased the rights for.

CBC's advantage is also that their broadcasts are available to US households along the US/Canada border. The disadvantage to all of these channels is that none of them have made the trek into US Cable or Satellite systems yet.
 

Evil Doctor

Cryin' Hank crying
Apr 29, 2009
2,400
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Cambridge, ON
CBC's advantage is also that their broadcasts are available to US households along the US/Canada border. The disadvantage to all of these channels is that none of them have made the trek into US Cable or Satellite systems yet.

How is this even relevant? American numbers don't count towards ratings. American consumers aren't the target for advertisers. It wouldn't matter if the television signals bounced off some invisible shield at the border. It's has no effect.
 

Brodie

the dream of the 90s is alive in Detroit
Mar 19, 2009
15,399
359
Chicago
American viewers are targeted by advertisers. Maybe not directly (it's not like we can all rush out and play Roll up the Rim to Win if we want to), but it sure as hell doesn't hurt to have people in Detroit, Seattle and Buffalo (which would be the 2nd, 3rd and 5th largest metro areas in Canada, respectively) watching. And plenty of us do watch HNIC.

It's similar to stations in Buffalo that can be seen in the GTA... their FOX affiliate doesn't even air a local news because advertisers are hot to attract cross border traffic and will pay premiums for spots on syndicated shows that might be seen by ~5 million people.
 

DoyleG

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Dec 29, 2008
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The CBC was popular with American viewers during the Olympics since the Mother Corp would carry events live, rather than on delay like NBC. The problem was that the Olympics got so big that you couldn’t use just one network to broadcast the event. The CBC ended up teaming with TSN to help ensure that the games got full coverage. It’s unlikely that the CBC will get the Olympics back since the CTV/TSN group can provide the necessary coverage that would be expected of them by the COA and IOC. In terms of the MLS contract, most of the games they broadcast were afternoon/early evening games on a Saturday. MLS certainly believes that it can get some prime time from TSN, even if it winds up on TSN2. I was actually quite pleased with the CTV/TSN coverage of the Vancouver Olympics.

The major issue is that the CBC hasn’t been able to find a winning formula to make its sports system work in the modern era. The way Chris Cuthbert was laid off by the CBC during the last lockout was indicative of the problems with CBC. He ended up being hired by TSN to do the same thing he did on CBC (NHL and CFL). Then, the head of sports left to head up the broadcasting efforts for Vancouver. They tried the Jays and Raptors, which still have some great pull, but they didn’t translate even onto the CBC broadcasts.

Many would look at the same issues coming back at the CBC for its regular broadcasting. While Brodie makes the CBC/BBC comparison, the funding system is much different. The BBC gets funded by a separate TV License that has to paid by all households in the UK. The only exception is the World Service, which gets funding from the UK Foreign Office. Most of the Canadian shows get financial support in one form or another, which doesn’t hurt their finance, they often don’t last more than a couple of seasons. Radio still does well since it takes a different method (local, rather than national) in comparison to television.

Despite this, CBC should hold onto HNIC for the foreseeable future. CTV doesn’t mind having its sked upset by the Olympics, since it temporary and only and issue with the Winter Games. The playoffs would require CTV to give up other programming during the sweeps period. Shaw/Global isn’t in a position to push since they don’t have a sports property. They could buy the score, but there are still issues on its license about how much live programming it can do.
 

Brodie

the dream of the 90s is alive in Detroit
Mar 19, 2009
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Chicago
The license fee is nothing but a direct tax... instead of appropriating tax funds for the BBC, the British government taxes people up front if they want to watch TV (or listen to the radio) with the express knowledge that all of the money is going to the Beeb. So it's still the people who are paying, the only real difference is in Canada you still have to support CBC if you don't own a TV whereas in Britain you only have to pay for the BBC if you want to watch television.
 

MAROONSRoad

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Feb 24, 2007
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The license fee is nothing but a direct tax... instead of appropriating tax funds for the BBC, the British government taxes people up front if they want to watch TV (or listen to the radio) with the express knowledge that all of the money is going to the Beeb. So it's still the people who are paying, the only real difference is in Canada you still have to support CBC if you don't own a TV whereas in Britain you only have to pay for the BBC if you want to watch television.

BBC TV has no commercials. CBC TV does. BBC charges a license fee for anyone that has a TV. CBC does not.

Bettman was asked today about the future of the NHL on CBC. He basically stated that the league and CBC have a long history, but that it is a good thing if there is a bidding war for the TV rights in Canada. He stated that all things being equal (i.e., if money was in the same ballpark), the league would give favourable preference to CBC/HNIC because "you dance with the one that brought you."

GHOST
 

Jeffrey93

Registered User
Nov 7, 2007
4,335
46

How much business sense does it make for the CBC to continue along as they have been?

Most CBC Sports programming started ages ago before TSN, Sportsnet & The Score arrived on the scene. Now that those players are involved is there really a need to have a government run broadcaster cover sports?

Again...if it makes financial sense and is a money-maker...fine. But I don't think a government run entity like the CBC should be trying to demolish TSN or Sportsnet.

The CBC is there to serve a purpose...out-bidding TSN and Sportsnet for big events, in my opinion, isn't one of them.
 

Brodie

the dream of the 90s is alive in Detroit
Mar 19, 2009
15,399
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Chicago
BBC TV has no commercials. CBC TV does. BBC charges a license fee for anyone that has a TV. CBC does not.

CBC also rakes in about $4 billion less money than the BBC, so I'd say the advertising can't hurt anything. The license fee is, like I said, nothing more than a tax. The difference between the two corporations is that one rakes in $5 billion in public funds while the other brings in $1 billion and supplements that with commercial revenue.
 

wjhl2009fan

Registered User
Nov 13, 2008
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The CBC was popular with American viewers during the Olympics since the Mother Corp would carry events live, rather than on delay like NBC. The problem was that the Olympics got so big that you couldn’t use just one network to broadcast the event. The CBC ended up teaming with TSN to help ensure that the games got full coverage. It’s unlikely that the CBC will get the Olympics back since the CTV/TSN group can provide the necessary coverage that would be expected of them by the COA and IOC. In terms of the MLS contract, most of the games they broadcast were afternoon/early evening games on a Saturday. MLS certainly believes that it can get some prime time from TSN, even if it winds up on TSN2. I was actually quite pleased with the CTV/TSN coverage of the Vancouver Olympics.

The major issue is that the CBC hasn’t been able to find a winning formula to make its sports system work in the modern era. The way Chris Cuthbert was laid off by the CBC during the last lockout was indicative of the problems with CBC. He ended up being hired by TSN to do the same thing he did on CBC (NHL and CFL). Then, the head of sports left to head up the broadcasting efforts for Vancouver. They tried the Jays and Raptors, which still have some great pull, but they didn’t translate even onto the CBC broadcasts.

Many would look at the same issues coming back at the CBC for its regular broadcasting. While Brodie makes the CBC/BBC comparison, the funding system is much different. The BBC gets funded by a separate TV License that has to paid by all households in the UK. The only exception is the World Service, which gets funding from the UK Foreign Office. Most of the Canadian shows get financial support in one form or another, which doesn’t hurt their finance, they often don’t last more than a couple of seasons. Radio still does well since it takes a different method (local, rather than national) in comparison to television.

Despite this, CBC should hold onto HNIC for the foreseeable future. CTV doesn’t mind having its sked upset by the Olympics, since it temporary and only and issue with the Winter Games. The playoffs would require CTV to give up other programming during the sweeps period. Shaw/Global isn’t in a position to push since they don’t have a sports property. They could buy the score, but there are still issues on its license about how much live programming it can do.

As with ctv don't forget bell is trying to buy the whole ctv globemedia which includes ctv and tsn and tsn 2.So i could see them put most of the games on tsn and tsn 2 and maybe launch a 3rd sports channel.I would not expect them to put many games on ctv.Shaw does want to launch a 24 hr sports channel of they get approved they could be a major player for the nhl rights.
 

Inkling

Same Old Hockey
Nov 27, 2006
5,655
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Ottawa
The CBC is there to serve a purpose...out-bidding TSN and Sportsnet for big events, in my opinion, isn't one of them.

The NHL licenses broadcast (over the air) and cable rights separately so they would not be competing directly with TSN or Sportsnet, but with CTV (I can't see them ever trying to get the NHL on 'Bold'). HNiC is a money maker for them, so they will argue that they are not using tax dollars to compete with private broadcasters and that HNiC may in fact give them money that they can use to make other Canadian programming (or create things like Hockeyville).

CBC can give the NHL something that virtually no one else can (namely turning over their broadcast network to the NHL come playoff time) and it will depend on how much value the NHL puts on that.

CTV and Rogers are private companies and have responsibilities to their shareholders, so it's not like they can drop an unlimited amount of dollars on the NHL's lap. They can outbid the CBC if they believe they can make it back in other ways.

Either way it should be interesting and the NHL will probably come out the winner.
 

AllByDesign

Who's this ABD guy??
Mar 17, 2010
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Location, Location!
The CBC never pre-empts any of their licensed broadcasts. Nothing plays second fidle to hockey on CBC. TSN is notorious for either not broadcasting or not broadcasting the entirety of a game they have the rights to broadcast. If something they seem 'better' comes along they will shut down the NHL game.

Politics aside, the CBC and the HNIC Canada franchise is anything but passe. It would be a disaster if CTV/TSN had the monopoly on Canadian NHL broadcasting rights. On the production side of the coin, the CBC are the kings of the hockey broadcast and editing. From the montages to the actual action they are the leaders.

I agree that the CBC as an organization is a mess. Over-run budgets, back room shenanigans and a deffinate taxpayer boondogle. If we examine the HNIC franchise on its own, it is a success and the crown jewel of hockey broadcasting for the NHL.
 

wjhl2009fan

Registered User
Nov 13, 2008
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The CBC never pre-empts any of their licensed broadcasts. Nothing plays second fidle to hockey on CBC. TSN is notorious for either not broadcasting or not broadcasting the entirety of a game they have the rights to broadcast. If something they seem 'better' comes along they will shut down the NHL game.

Politics aside, the CBC and the HNIC Canada franchise is anything but passe. It would be a disaster if CTV/TSN had the monopoly on Canadian NHL broadcasting rights. On the production side of the coin, the CBC are the kings of the hockey broadcast and editing. From the montages to the actual action they are the leaders.

I agree that the CBC as an organization is a mess. Over-run budgets, back room shenanigans and a deffinate taxpayer boondogle. If we examine the HNIC franchise on its own, it is a success and the crown jewel of hockey broadcasting for the NHL.

I don't know if i would go as far as saying it would be a disater as for cbc are the kins i would not go that far.What i would like to see is the nhl and cbc work out a deal where cbc gets the rights to the leafs and montreal and allow every other canadian team to work out there own deals.
 

AllByDesign

Who's this ABD guy??
Mar 17, 2010
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Location, Location!
I don't know if i would go as far as saying it would be a disater as for cbc are the kins i would not go that far.What i would like to see is the nhl and cbc work out a deal where cbc gets the rights to the leafs and montreal and allow every other canadian team to work out there own deals.

Each team does work on their own local broadcasting deals. The National broadcasting rights are a whole different situation.
 

Evil Doctor

Cryin' Hank crying
Apr 29, 2009
2,400
6
Cambridge, ON
American viewers are targeted by advertisers. Maybe not directly (it's not like we can all rush out and play Roll up the Rim to Win if we want to), but it sure as hell doesn't hurt to have people in Detroit, Seattle and Buffalo (which would be the 2nd, 3rd and 5th largest metro areas in Canada, respectively) watching. And plenty of us do watch HNIC.

No, they are not targeted directly or otherwise. There are no numbers kept on how many foreigners watch Canadian television, so advertisers have no choice but to assume zero and act like nothing exists beyond the Canadian border.

It's similar to stations in Buffalo that can be seen in the GTA... their FOX affiliate doesn't even air a local news because advertisers are hot to attract cross border traffic and will pay premiums for spots on syndicated shows that might be seen by ~5 million people.

I can't speak to why WUTV doesn't have a newscast, more likely it's a leftover from it's pre-Fox independent days, and doesn't want to spend the extra money actually hiring television personalities. Besides, anytime a Canadian channel simulcasts with an American channel, the Canadian channel supplants the American signal, shutting out American advertisers. Likewise, ratings are not kept on viewers of American channels, so any American advertiser looking to target Canadian viewers is just throwing his money away...
 

wjhl2009fan

Registered User
Nov 13, 2008
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Each team does work on their own local broadcasting deals. The National broadcasting rights are a whole different situation.

Its the national boradcasts i am talking about let tsn and or sportsnet run national games on saturdays as well.
 

bosshogg18

Registered User
Oct 26, 2009
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Lyle, WA, Tacoma, WA
It would be a travesty to lose CBC, especially HNIC. As an American I am able to get CBC on Comcast in the Seattle. We don't get CTV, Shaw, or TSN, we get ESPN instead. Which you all know does not show hockey as of now. I wish there was a way Americans could get more Canadian channels. Canadians get to see all of our programming, but where is the Canadian content. I would much rather see Sportscentre than I would Sportscenter...simply because hockey is #1, not the NBA. The NBA is dead to me until the Seattle is given the Sonics back.
 

optimus2861

Registered User
Aug 29, 2005
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Bedford NS
The CBC never pre-empts any of their licensed broadcasts. Nothing plays second fidle to hockey on CBC. TSN is notorious for either not broadcasting or not broadcasting the entirety of a game they have the rights to broadcast. If something they seem 'better' comes along they will shut down the NHL game.
Notorious? I don't ever remember TSN pre-empting an NHL game for some other sporting event. Switching which game they cover, yes, but they haven't even done that in some years now. I think it was 10-15 years ago, they switched from a western game (forget if it was Oilers or Flames) to a Leafs game during the stretch run and they got so bombarded with emails, phone calls, etc from their western viewers that they apologized on-air and promised they wouldn't do it again.

You also clearly don't remember the days when CBC would cut to the National before hockey games were over. Dave Hodge got fired from CBC because of that way back then, as he dared to express his disgust with the practice on-air.

Bottom line, methinks you're living in some parallel universe.
 

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