Salary Cap: CBA Talk

pzeeman

Registered User
May 15, 2013
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Since the Duchene rumour thread is trending this way, and the CBA is coming up, I thought a focused thread for this makes sense. I’ll start:

I actually think the players should get *at least* 50% if HRR. I don’t buy tickets to see the owner sit in a luxury box, and I don’t buy merch because I love the owner (though I don’t buy merch because I’m mad at the owner ;))
 
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DaveMatthew

Bring in Peter
Apr 13, 2005
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I expect there to be a nice long lockout with the primary issue being signing bonuses.

The NHL wants parity. After the cap was first introduced, big money teams tried to gain an advantage by offering those long, front-loaded contracts. That problem was solved in the next lockout. Now, big money teams get an advantage by offering big signing bonuses. I expect the NHL will try to limit the percentage of a contract that can be paid in bonus, and I expect the PA to not give that up easily.
 

Masked

(Super/star)
Apr 16, 2017
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I expect there to be a nice long lockout with the primary issue being signing bonuses.

The NHL wants parity. After the cap was first introduced, big money teams tried to gain an advantage by offering those long, front-loaded contracts. That problem was solved in the next lockout. Now, big money teams get an advantage by offering big signing bonuses. I expect the NHL will try to limit the percentage of a contract that can be paid in bonus, and I expect the PA to not give that up easily.

The real primary issue will always be lowering the percentage the players get. The owners know they can outlast the players, they proved it when they implemented the cap, so they will always do this going forward.

The NHL doesn't want parity. It wants the perception of parity but they're quite happy with Chicago, LA and the Rangers dominating the league because they'll bring in more money than having Winnipeg, Arizona and Carolina dominate the league.

They may say the fight is about signing bonuses and long term deals but Bettman is a liar who plays loose with the truth. .
 

Stylizer1

SENSimillanaire
Jun 12, 2009
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Contract lengths should be a maximum of 5 years with teams being able to sign players they drafted to a 6th year.

This is not a CBA issue but I think they should go back to 1 vs 8 in the playoff format.
 
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Tnuoc Alucard

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"Before the start of an NHL season, the League projects the HRR for the upcoming season. That projection is split into two equal shares to be divided between the players and owners. The players’ projected 50% share is divided by the number of teams in the league (31 for 2017-18) to find the midpoint of the salary cap range. The upper and lower limits of the salary cap are then set by finding the values 15% above and below this midpoint. These limits establish the salary cap ceiling and floor, within which each team’s payroll must fit."


DolgP96UYAEFc6e.jpg

How Much Do NHL Players Really Make?

How Much Do NHL Players Really Make? Part 2: Taxes
 
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Ice-Tray

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Jan 31, 2006
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I am no expert here but...

I think it was JD1 that mentioned the idea that perhaps the league and players should look at HRR, subtract the costs of running a team, and then split the rest.

Owners get some profit, players get equal salary.

I think they could look at the average cost of running an NHL team, and then make that something each team gets through HRR (likely subsidized by revenue sharing). This would also guarantee that RS is spent in running the team instead of potentially being wasted elsewhere (debt servicing?).

Everything else is split. Could be a 70/30 to the players given that the owner’s would essentially have pure profit if they wanted. The players 70% would essentially be the number to set the salary cap and floor. Any of the cap not spent could maybe be carried forward, paid into a NHLPA fund, etc...

Teams that make big money can then spend more on private planes and single room hotel rooms, etc, and team perks if they want to set themselves apart (more scouts, etc) but at least the small market teams like us would have basic expenses covered to fully staff and run the team. That way EM or whomever would always make profit, and each team could spend to the cap and be fully staffed.

I know the 5 big teams would not be as happy with such a deal, but without the other 27 teams there wouldn’t be any money to make. For the players, every team being able to spend to the cap would mean each team could compete.

I’d be interested to hear what you folks thought.
 

Sun God Nika

Palestine <3.
Apr 22, 2013
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League should introduce more tools to help teams retain their drafted talent. Limit free agent contracts to 6 years while if the player signs with the team currently holding his rights he can sign for 8 years.
 
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Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,328
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Victoria
League should introduce more tools to help teams retain their drafted talent. Limit free agent contracts to 6 years while if the player signs with the team currently holding his rights he can sign for 8 years.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The UFA age is waaaay too low. They need to craft a deal that give teams a real advantage to retain players through their prime years.
 
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pzeeman

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May 15, 2013
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I think there needs to be some sort of revenue sharing - maybe as outlined by Ice-Tray/JD1 to prevent some owner *cough*Melnyk*cough* from pulling Loria. But if all the increase in HRR is raising the cap, and only a few teams' bank accounts are really growing, that is a tough place to put the small markets.
 

Stylizer1

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Jun 12, 2009
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League should introduce more tools to help teams retain their drafted talent. Limit free agent contracts to 6 years while if the player signs with the team currently holding his rights he can sign for 8 years.
Contract are too long and they handcuff teams. They need to become shorter.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
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We already lost a season once. I expect a lockout but I doubt it will be as long as the 2013 one, both parties know the damage they cause and things seem to be on the upswing with new teams joining the league.
 

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
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Keep the UFA window as is, but limit the contract to 5 years maximum. But...

they have to remove the clauses that allow bogus, retired contracts for small market teams to get to the floor. That affects the players and their ability to earn that money. Of course, this will also require better revenue sharing.
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
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the top 10 teams in terms of franchise value as noted by 2018 forbes data are

Nyr
Toronto
Montreal
Chicago
Boston
La
Philadelphia
Detroit
Vancouver
Washington

These 10 teams have 2,028,000,000 in revenue. If half that revenue must go to players then the players must receive 1,014,000,000 of that. There is a cap that limits what teams can spend which results in these 10 teams ONLY spending 790M on salary.

This results in a 224M gap between what these teams spend and 50% and that gap has to be made up by the other teams. So we have situations where the top teams can spend say 35% of revenue on salary and the bottom feeders (us) might have to spend 70%.

I only went 10 teams deep in looking at numbers. There might be a couple more where they have revenues above double the ceiling further compounding the problem.

I used forbes 2018 data for all of these numbers. I'm fully aware of all the limitations of estimations and all the criticisms of the forbes estimates. If you want to criticize what's here due to limitations of available financial data please don't bother. What i posted is surely not 100% accurate but i did the math to highlight the problem. The problem is very real and getting worse as league revenues rise
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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So those top 10 teams, certainly seem to have the ability to outgun the lower echelon of small market teams, such as Ottawa.

When you operate a Franchise in a Market that can generate these higher sums of revenues, you have fewer challenges to overcome, if any, to put together a first class operation.

When you operate a Franchise in a Market that cannot generate these higher sums of revenues, there you have many challenges to overcome, and that eats into operational profits.


New York Rangers revenue 2005-2018 | Statistic


Ottawa Senators revenue 2005-2018 | Statistic
 

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