Caufield vs Pinto

Take going forward?


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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,708
9,651
Montreal, Canada
Absolutely not.
Tufto was 23 years old, and he was playing on one of the weakest conferences in college. Caufield was 19 years old and playing on a much stronger conference. There is a big difference between their situation.
Caufield stats shows how good and talented he is. It doesn't guarantee it will translate to the NHL, but that's true for every other player (regardless of their size) in every other league.

I was not comparing Caufield and Tufto... was I? Not sure why you are taking the time to do it as it has nothing to do with this discussion. Again, yes Caufield stats were great, not arguing the opposite but personally still taking college stats with a grain of salt (you're free to do the opposite, to each their own in a free country), it's good hockey but it's not pro hockey. The all-time best NCAA season is Tony Hrkac with 116 pts in 48 GP in 1986-87. He was 20 y/o. He had a good NHL career but that season didn't garantee him to be a star. You can take a look at best NCAA U-21 seasons here :

https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/ncaa/stats/all-time-season?to=2020-2021&age=u21

By your logic, the stats of every non-nhl league is useless. The AHL's top 5 current scorers are all 5'10 or under, and none of them had success in the nhl. Does that mean that every player stats in the AHL should be taken with a grain of salt?

So you have decided that you understand my logic? Doesn't look like you do

Where did I say anything CLOSE to "the stats of every non-nhl league is useless"???

Looks like this discussion is pretty useless, always have a hard time discussing with people who have poor reading comprehension.

The answer is no. You have to look at the player's age and their situation. Zegras, who is 20 years old and has 21 pts in 17 ahl games is in a very different situation than lets say Agostino, who is 29 years old, and has 22 pts in 22 games.

Oh really?

You can compare him to Ylonen sure.

Not really comparable. Ylonen should be compared to... well Sens don't have a comparable prospect at the moment. I would have said maybe Jonathan Davidsson but his career got derailed by concussion issues. Really liked Ylonen when I saw him play, one of the best Habs prospects IMO.

That being said, I don't know who's the best Caufield comparable from the Sens, they don't have any small goal scorer... Abramov maybe (5'10) but he is not a "pure goal scorer" at all. Although you like junior stats, Abramov scored 38 goals in 63 games at 17 y/o! Plus 7 more in 10 playoffs games. 46 goals in 66 games at 18 y/o.

Without looking at size or other game dimensions, if you want to compare Caufield with the best Sens goal scorer, the problem is we don't even know who's that guy at this point. Will it be Tkachuk? Norris? Batherson? Stutzle? Connor Brown? All guys that can score 30+ goals... The 2 greatest shots in the organization are probably Sokolov and Jarventie so it could be one of them too (although Sokolov's game make us think about Mark Stone more and more everyday). Then there's guys like Formenton and Crookshank who also have some abilities that could allow them to score plenty of goals. Elite speed in Formenton's case, like you saw on his goal vs the Habs in the last game IIRC

While not really serious, that's why I have brought Jarventie to the discussion, he has a sick sick shot.
 
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Kudo Shinichi

Registered User
Apr 20, 2012
20,346
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I was not comparing Caufield and Tufto... was I? Not sure why you are taking the time to do it as it has nothing to do with this discussion. Again, yes Caufield stats were great, not arguing the opposite but personally still taking college stats with a grain of salt (you're free to do the opposite, to each their own in a free country), it's good hockey but it's not pro hockey. The all-time best NCAA season is Tony Hrkac with 116 pts in 48 GP in 1986-87. He was 20 y/o. He had a good NHL career but that season didn't garantee him to be a star. You can take a look at best NCAA U-21 seasons here :

Elite Prospects - NCAA Stats All-time season

You do realize that hockey in the 80s-90s is completely different to hockey today? The league was different and it was much higher scoring back then.

Also this year was Caufield's 19 year old season, so he was U-20.
Since 2000-21, Caufield has the best goals/game season and 4th best pts/game season for u20 players. Elite Prospects - NCAA Stats All-time season

Look at the top 35 in pts/game for u20 players, almost all of them had a good nhl career.

Despite this, I still precised in my previous post that it doesn't guarantee a good nhl career (nothing does after all). Its a good sign for future nhl success.

So you have decided that you understand my logic? Doesn't look like you do

Where did I say anything CLOSE to "the stats of every non-nhl league is useless"???

Looks like this discussion is pretty useless, always have a hard time discussing with people who have poor reading comprehension.

You said NCAA stats should be taken with a grain of salt (basically meaning useless) because there are players there that produces well, but don't end up having success in the nhl. That's your logic.
However in every single league, you will find players (of any height) that have had success there, but couldn't replicate it in the nhl. So your logic about the NCAA stats not meaning much should be applied to these other leagues as well, hence the stats of every player in non-nhl league should be taken with a grain of salt.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,708
9,651
Montreal, Canada
You do realize that hockey in the 80s-90s is completely different to hockey today? The league was different and it was much higher scoring back then.

Also this year was Caufield's 19 year old season, so he was U-20.
Since 2000-21, Caufield has the best goals/game season and 4th best pts/game season for u20 players. Elite Prospects - NCAA Stats All-time season

Look at the top 35 in pts/game for u20 players, almost all of them had a good nhl career.

Despite this, I still precised in my previous post that it doesn't guarantee a good nhl career (nothing does after all). Its a good sign for future nhl success.

Seems like I have to be extremely careful about names I throw out there because you're extremely quick at drawing conclusions... that I wasn't trying to make. I never intended to compare Tufto or Hrkac to Caufield. I named those 2 guys/examples as an attempt to explain you WHY I personally take college stats with a grain of salt (I do for every non NHL league as well). Like I said, if you want to take them to the bank, it's your own choice but I don't have to do the same.

Yes, obviously it's a different "era" but even though scoring changed over the years, I still have my reservations. You can look at it more recently and you'll also find 20 y/o guys that also had "crazy good seasons" : Nathan Gerbe, Andy Hilbert, Brett Sterling, J.T. Compher, Brandon Bochenski, etc to name a few (many of them on the small side)

I mean, it's not that it doesn't happen in every league, however I tend to take pro league stats as a better indication. Euro leagues is another story because the game and the rink size are different. In the end, the "smallest grain of salt" for me is AHL stats.

But anyway, not even sure why I need to spend time arguing that. I already said that I think Caufield will be somewhere in between Atkinson and DeBrincat... I mean, it's a pretty good outcome, no? I'm just saying that his college stats doesn't garantee him to be a superstar, hence the grain of salt thing. I never said "his college stats are useless so he's likely to become a no-name player"... maybe that's your interpertation (poor reading skills?)

Note : Caufield is born on January 2... saying it's his 19/o season is a bit disingenuous as he was 20 for most of the season... Was it Pinto 19 y/o season as he's born November 12? We're talking a few weeks difference. Another thing not worth debating.

You said NCAA stats should be taken with a grain of salt (basically meaning useless) because there are players there that produces well, but don't end up having success in the nhl. That's your logic.
However in every single league, you will find players (of any height) that have had success there, but couldn't replicate it in the nhl. So your logic about the NCAA stats not meaning much should be applied to these other leagues as well, hence the stats of every player in non-nhl league should be taken with a grain of salt.

I don't know if english is like your 3rd langage (like it is for me) but "take with a grain of salt" DOES NOT MEAN "useless" in any way, shape or form... Maybe that's where the problem and debate comes from : you simply do not understand what it means...

Maybe next time, try to look it up when you don't know something? That'd save us a lot of typing lol


take with a grain of salt
also, take with a pinch of salt

Meaning:

  • to understand that something is not completely true or right
  • not take something too seriously
  • accept, but with some reservations or skepticism
  • don’t exactly believe something
Source: theidioms.com




So yeah, knowing that, you certainly dont get "my logic". I never said that I don't take other league stats with a grain of salt. I highlighted 2 parts that I wrote a few minutes ago in the quote above

I have no idea why you would think that I do that only for the NCAA :dunno:
 
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SpezDispenser

Registered User
Aug 15, 2007
26,713
6,236
Tough division to grow into though, Florida, Tampa, Toronto, BUFFALO and obviously the Bruins. Then theres the Canadiens i guess.

True, but there'll be a soft decline for a couple of those teams, while Ottawa ascends. It's touch in the Atlantic though, tough in the West too, but yeah, Atlantic = tough. Probably draw Tampa Bay the first time we get in and make life miserable for them while losing tidily.
 

Hale The Villain

HFBoards Sponsor
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Apr 2, 2008
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Caufield has much higher offensive upside. Good shot at being a 30-40G scorer.

Pinto looks to have a good chance at developing into a great middle 6 center - the type of guy you send out to try to shut down a guy like Caufield.

Better comparison would be Caufield/Batherson - two goal scoring wingers.
 

CareyItUp

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
120
10
West Island
Imagine chirping another team's young players for not starting game 1 when your own young players are already golfing


Are you okay lmao? Caufield only has 10 games of NHL experience under his belt, with the amount of depth the Habs have this season and the return of veteran players, it should be no surprise that Caufield is sitting
 

Sensfourlife

Registered User
Aug 22, 2020
194
104
If Caufield doesn’t score goals he is useless.

Pinto brings elite face off skills and D. I expect him to be a 55-65 200 foot second line C.
 

DonM

The Industrial Revolution and its consequences
May 18, 2015
780
1,328
If Caufield doesn’t score goals he is useless.

Pinto brings elite face off skills and D. I expect him to be a 55-65 200 foot second line C.
So you basically expect him to be Bergeron of a handful of years back? Well, I guess it's as realistic as people predicting 50+ goals from Caufield.
 
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GermanSpitfire

EU Video Scout for McKeen’s
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upload_2021-5-26_21-31-52.jpeg
 

topshelf15

Registered User
May 5, 2009
27,993
6,005
Yes but Caufield is a different player. It would be like comparing Kotkaniemi to Stutzle, both great player but one is clearly a better player and only a clear homer would say otherwise.

On the ice Kotkaniemi may have "similar" value because of two way play and physicality, but Stutzles offensive ability is special.

Don't be a homer, nobody likes that.
Lol,you really should not say this
 
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